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Forced Polonisation campaign?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
14 Aug 2012  #1
I happened to consult £asków on wikipedia and its Polish version said the village was mostly inhabited by Ruthenians and that its Orthodox chruch was destroyed in 1938 as part of a ' Polonisation campaign' (akcja polonizacyjna). Anyone know how widespread that campaign was? Would it have been carried out mainly in reprisal af'gainst a village guilty of sabotage or terrorist acts (those did occur in the inter-war period after all)? Also Piłsudski's legionnaires got land in the Kresy to settle. How widespread was that?
Harry
14 Aug 2012  #2
Anyone know how widespread that campaign was?

Wikipedia says 190 Orthodox churches were destroyed and a further 150 forcibly converted into Catholic churches. But the sources given for those figures can't be checked online, so....

Also Piłsudski's legionnaires got land in the Kresy to settle. How widespread was that?

My understanding is that it was fairly widespread and that the former legionnaires often just replaced the former Russian gentry (which did nothing to help community feeling) and were usually amongst the first up against the wall when the Soviets invaded in 1939.
Ironside 48 | 9,748
14 Aug 2012  #3
Anyone know how widespread that campaign was?

Not really widespread. In the late 30' government tried to undo years of partitions by removing more obvious symbols of Russian violence and occupation.It lasted for two, three years.
Harry
14 Aug 2012  #4
removing more obvious symbols of Russian violence and occupation.

Destroying churches is 'removing more obvious symbols of Russian violence and occupation'? Even by your standards that is a statement so insane it isn't even slightly funny.
Ironside 48 | 9,748
14 Aug 2012  #5
You are supposed to be obsessed with Polish history, so you should know what I'm talking about.
Is that "obsession" exclusively limited to Jewish history in Poland?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
14 Aug 2012  #6
Tampering with one of the most intimate facets of human existence -- religiious faith -- is despicable and heartless ,and it saddens me toi think that Poles could have destroyed anyone's churches. But I believe many in Poland felt shortchanegd by Versailles. The Poland that emerged after World War One was about one-third the size of the old Commonwealth so they must have felt they were only tring to partially rectify an histrorical injustice. Where was it written that Russia -- tsarist or Soviet -- can be a multinational state, but Poland cannot?,
Harry
14 Aug 2012  #7
Tampering with one of the most intimate facets of human existence -- religiious faith -- is despicable and heartless ,and it saddens me toi think that Poles could have destroyed anyone's churches.

Why should you expect Poles to be different to any other nation? They aren't and every other nation has done, in living memory, things which are as bad as that.

But I believe many in Poland felt shortchanegd by Versailles.

Er, what did Versailles have to say about the eastern borders of Poland? Nothing, that's what.

Where was it written that Russia -- tsarist or Soviet -- can be a multinational state, but Poland cannot?,

Interbellum Poland was one. It just didn't work out very well as one (which is one reason for the post-war ethnic cleansing by, against and in favour of Poles).

Is that "obsession" exclusively limited to Jewish history in Poland?

Yes, that's why I just spent a couple of days looking at the Molotov line in Przemysl.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
14 Aug 2012  #8
its Orthodox chruch was destroyed in 1938 as part of a ' Polonisation campaign' (akcja polonizacyjna). Anyone know how widespread that campaign was?

It's not that simple. Russia for centuries have been using Orthodox church as a political tool. During particions Russians built plenty of Orthodox churches on Polish lands, which in many cases were just serving as symbols of Russian domination (like a giantic church in Warsaw, which was demolished in mid-20's) and became usless after the WWI, especially after many Russians (bureaucrats, soldiers etc. left the country). In many cases Catholic churches were turned into Orthodox ones (or demolished and replaced by Orthodox ones) so It didn't came out of nowhere. After WW1 there's been a large action of take over/demolishion of Orthodox churches and in most cases it seems to have been justified... the smaller action, which took place in late 30's was slightly more controversial thought...
Barney 14 | 1,469
14 Aug 2012  #9
like a giantic church in Warsaw, which was demolished in mid-20's

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Nevsky_Cathedral,_Warsaw

Aphro had a thread about the burning of churches lots of interesting points.
Ironside 48 | 9,748
14 Aug 2012  #10
Tampering with one of the most intimate facets of human existence -- religiious faith

Russia had no problem with tampering with everything, all American analogies can be scraped. Russian Orthodox Church was a willing tool of anti-polish Tsarist policy during partition, working hand in hand with oppressive tyranny of Russian gov, supported by bayonet if needed.

Short lived attempt at restoration status quo before partitions wasn't and isn't a big problem.

Interbellum Poland was one. It just didn't work out very well as one (which is one reason for the post-war ethnic cleansing by, against and in favour of Poles).

What a stupid thing to say!
Barney 14 | 1,469
14 Aug 2012  #11
Russian Orthodox Church was a willing tool of anti-polish Tsarist policy during partition

I can buy that

What a stupid thing to say!

Why do you say that?
It seems a fair reflection of the events to me.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Aug 2012  #12
Nevsky Catehdsral was the tallest buildign in pre-WW1 Warsaw. Symbolically, the Prudential Bldg, a symbol of budding Western-orientated capitalism, held that title in the inter-bellum capital. After WW2 it was the Palace of Culture. And now, some of the new skyscrapers are coming close to and may soon exceed the Stalinesque 'wedding cake' in heigth. The politico-economic smybolism seems rather obvious.
xzqbq7 2 | 104
15 Aug 2012  #13
the Stalinesque 'wedding cake'

and why is this thing still occupying the center of Warszawa? Rather symbolic of PRL-bis, wouldn't you say?
jon357 63 | 14,124
15 Aug 2012  #14
Thousands of people actually like it.
Ironside 48 | 9,748
15 Aug 2012  #15
Why do you say that?
It seems a fair reflection of the events to me.

Because minorities in Poland before the war had not impact at the fate of the country. All problems started after the war, I may add lost war!

Also the fact that some minorities behaved badly during the war had no influence on the fate of the country minorities or shape of the border. It was decision made by Stalin regardless of all internal pre-war scrabbles.

Stating that Poland's acts (expect for refusing German offer of alliance) before the war had any bearing on post -war settlement is false, untruth and stupid.

and why is this thing still occupying the center of Warszawa? Rather symbolic of PRL-bis, wouldn't you say?

Precisely because the present state it is PRL-bis not Poland!

Why do you say that?

I couldn't edit!
Because fate of Poland after war has not conception with minorities or anything else expect for the fact that Soviet Union overrun Poland and Stalin was making all decisions regarding Poland by himself and to suit himself.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,647
15 Aug 2012  #16
Also Piłsudski's legionnaires got land in the Kresy to settle. How widespread was that?

As far as I know, there were some problems with them becoming absent landlords - they were supposed to settle the land, but instead chose to rule it from afar, no doubt because the infrastructure in the Kresy was absolutely diabolically poor, as well as the people not having any real concept of ethnicity or nationality.

I don't think it was *very* widespread, but the intent was there.

Anyone know how widespread that campaign was? Would it have been carried out mainly in reprisal af'gainst a village guilty of sabotage or terrorist acts (those did occur in the inter-war period after all)?

As far as I have found in reliable sources, apart from incidents in 1919/1920 such as the Lwów pogrom, it only became widespread after Pilsudski's death - and with it, the vision of all those minorities forming an alliance against the outside world. But it was nothing particularly surprising - nationalism was sweeping the continent at the time, and it's no surprise that Poland got caught up in it too.

I still think the failure to get the Ukrainian minority on the II RP's side was one of the causes of it falling so easily. Imagine if the barbaric UPA had been on the Polish side?


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