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Polish flag over the Reichstag first?


Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
2 Jan 2011 #61
Ok BB we believe you your ancestors were Silesian Germans

Thanks :)

Will somebody post any video links bout that damn Battle of Bautzen?

Did you google already?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #62
Now back to the Reichstag question!

Original flag was a small thing carried to the top during the assault, then they ordered a nicer bigger version for the famous pic, as far as i know yes there were Poles assaulting Reichstag but no they did not stick a flag over it.

Well...as our football team (between others) found out alot more Germans stayed than previously thought. ;)

About 40-50k but if you mean mr Klose he's as German as i am.

Alone during the 80's nearly a million Poles with german heritage used their right of return to immigrate to West Germany.

BB those were ethnic Poles (mostly) fleeing Poland using various relatives, most of them never spoke a word in german either! Poland was poor, Germany had a Marshalls Plan rolling you figure it out.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
2 Jan 2011 #63
Original flag was a small thing carried to the top during the assault, then they ordered a nicer bigger version for the famous pic, as far as i know yes there were Poles assaulting Reichstag but no they did not stick a flag over it.

...yeah...I have no other info on that one either...

About 40-50k but if you mean mr Klose he's as German as i am.

Maybe he had a german shepherd???

Doesn't matter...he makes great goals! :)
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #64
I won't discuss this fact with you as we will have to agree to disagree here (and that russian witness opinion here count double for me), I only wonder. Especially as you elsewhere can hardly find a good word about russian achievements.

Look, we already provided 2 links about it (Russian and British) and he still disagrees with it.
Freaking unreal.

You need to go to google and find yourself a map of historical Silesia then come back to me and we can have a discussion

Are you seriously denying the fact that Lower Silesia (just like it is the Upper Silesia too) is a part of Silesia.

Post 1947? Yep.

What a bull. You must have been seriously brainwashed by the Soviets. I strongly assume that you were growing up in Poland before 1989.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #65
Maybe he had a german shepherd???

To be specific his pop is Józef Kloze who's half german and his mother is Barbara Jeż who's polish so i stand corrected he's 1/4th german but that pretty much sums up all the "Germans" who went into Germany during merry communist times.

Doesn't matter...he makes great goals! :)

He's gonna break those legs while skeeing when he's on a trip to f*cking Africa!

Will somebody post any video links bout that damn Battle of Bautzen?

What? The napoleonic one?

Look, we already provided 2 links about it (Russian and British) and he still disagrees with it.
Freaking unreal.

Links is not tantamount to evidence son, i can link you to stormfront and use it as my proof of neonazi tolerance.

What i have pointed out are reasons for which most historical sources that do not directly discuss tactics and operations are biased, how about we pick an operation, lets say Russian invasion of Hungary and discuss over this, i'll even bring english links to play with.
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
2 Jan 2011 #66
BB those were ethnic Poles (mostly) fleeing Poland using various relatives

1,104,000 Germans stayed in Poland after WWII and accepted Polish citizenship, 150,000 are left today close to a million went to Germany during the 80's, it fits.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #67
There were certain requirements that a German had to meet, do you know them?
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
2 Jan 2011 #68
I dunno you got me there

What? The napoleonic one?

No the one in 1945 between the Polish 2nd Army and German Hermann Göring Panzer and Panzergrenadier divisions south of Berlin.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #69
What a bull. You must have been seriously brainwashed by the Soviets. I strongly assume that you were growing up in Poland before 1989.

You assume wrong, i'm 28 years old so i've been raised in free Poland i'm just into WW2 history to a point of obsession and a random online moron is not a partner for me to discuss with, for example i can tell you that in 1.01.1941 Russia had the following armoured forces:

T-26 - 8790
OT-26 - 938
BT:
2 - 546
5 - 1742
7 - 4655
7M - 582
7A - 108
T-28 - 447
T-34 - 115
KV -243
T-35 - 56
T-37/38/40 - 3525

After over 14 years in the subject i can quote you from memory forces that took part in every major engagement east and west of Berlin so an anti-communist article throwing blanket statements doesnt even phase me.

I dunno you got me there

1. Speak fluent polish.
2. Have at least 1 polish relative.
3. Not be a part of any german organisation during or before the war.

There was more but it boils down to the 1 milion Germans being mostly ethnic Poles from Silesia who then used the cop out offered by Germany because Poland was quite frankly a horrible place to be at the time.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
2 Jan 2011 #70
Can you give me some of your sources Sok? I would be interested in reading them...

I read german, english, american sources mainly...and especially with the german witnesses about the eastern front I don't get the feeling they want to defame the Russians purposely to demean their own achievements.

There is alot of pity for the enemy soldier on the ground as they are so abused by their superiors, with special hate going out to the NKVD.

....have to go now...bis Morgen! :)
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #71
Links is not tantamount to evidence son,

OK girl, so whatever is written or filmed is nothing to you unless it's written by the Poles or the Soviets between 1945 and 1989.
It's a waste of time. Case closed.

Can you give me some of your sources Sok?

Watch, he'll suggest a great historical documentary movie "Four men tank crew and a dog".

This movie has the same historical value as the "Inglorious Basterds" (lol)
Ironside 50 | 10,910
2 Jan 2011 #72
Germans have lived there for over 1000 years...

Don't think so BB, no 1000 years !

a million Poles with german heritage

What that means BB?Do you try to be funny ?

OK girl, so whatever is written or filmed is nothing to you unless it's written by the Poles or the Soviets between 1945 and 1989.
It's a waste of time. Case closed.

Hey he said that he is into WWII military operations, and for once I believe him, so hold your horses, girl :)
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #73
What that means BB?Do you try to be funny ?

just an info Iron

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_minority_in_Poland(still in Poland)
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
2 Jan 2011 #74
What's your opinion about it? Do you think it's true?

I think it could of happened, definitely. It sounds like someone wanting to make a statement about the war.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #75
OK girl, so whatever is written or filmed is nothing to you unless it's written by the Poles or the Soviets between 1945 and 1989.
It's a waste of time. Case closed.

Depends, if i hear that Poland was destroyed in two weeks or that Barbarossa was so effortlessly rolling down Russia that raises an eyebrow.

I read german, english, american sources mainly...and especially with the german witnesses about the eastern front I don't get the feeling they want to defame the Russians purposely to demean their own achievements.

Again point of view, german troopers went in with the perception that they're fighting subhumans, after a few weeks they were sh*tting their pants because quite frankly Russians were superior in every respect but command.

They didnt cry out in pain, they didnt succumb to weather, they could fight hungry, tired, burned or wounded when any of us would just crumble and you wont hear it today but every goddamn Wehrmacht soldier had the Russians for subhumans, Nazi or not.

And then Russians went and kicked Germans all the way back to Berlin.

Hard to be objective when subhumans went and shat all over your warmachine like that.

My sources are in Polish mainly, i can of course find english translations or stuff by (mostly swedish) authors but the truth about WW2 is warped by political realities.

Germany had its 5 minutes while retards were running Russia, but when retards died out intelligent people were let out of the Gulags and started rolling again, these generals are not famous but Russia had dozens of them and it showed.
Ironside 50 | 10,910
2 Jan 2011 #76
just an info Iron

thanks, but he knows what I'm asking about! When you have not been paying attention!
As for info thnx but I know that :)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
2 Jan 2011 #77
Well...try german sources next Sok! Especially when you study the Eastern Front! ;)

Maybe you can put your "subhuman" ideas and that Russians sh'it on the Wehrmacht to rest then.
Because you are quite alone with that opinion. Even Russians tell you that...;)

'night

PS: Only comparing direct Kill ratios and losses should show you who sh'it on whom the whole time, even outnumbered and fighting at several fronts at once at the same time!
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
2 Jan 2011 #78
Inglorious Basterds

That's the dumbest movie i saw in my life very very anti German
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #79
There is alot of pity for the enemy soldier on the ground as they are so abused by their superiors, with special hate going out to the NKVD.

A quote i remember by a Russian.

"We had to choose between two dictators, we chose the one who spoke russian."

if Hitler played his card right the entire Red Army would just fight for him and a russian soldier under german command would be un-f*cking-stoppable.

Maybe you can put your "subhuman" ideas and that Russians sh'it on the Wehrmacht to rest then.
Because you are quite alone with that opinion. Even Russians tell you that...;)

There's quite a change of tone when you read memoirs of german soldiers and their today statements.

Remember that something like 80% of initial Wehrmacht were unemployed young men (Germany had a sh*tload of them) quite a few of whom learned to read in the army and so on.

Goebbels had it easy, simple people given a purpose and a good life, putting stuff in their head that they'd be ashamed of later was easy.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #80
Hey he said that he is into WWII military operations, and for once I believe him, so hold your horses, girl :)

I don't believe him because the facts are speaking against his theory.
Despite the numbers, if this psycho Hitler wouldn't split up German forces in so many fronts, there was absolutely no army in the entire world which could face the Germans 1:1 and win during the WW2.

All the Germans had to do is to concentrate on just one front at the time and they would have most likely won the whole thing.

That's the dumbest movie i saw in my life very very anti German

Fully agree with you. To me it's not even to be taken as a comedy. It's a very bad joke.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
2 Jan 2011 #81
if Hitler played his card right the entire Red Army would just fight for him and a russian soldier under german command would be un-f*cking-stoppable.

I know!

That was a crime...
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
2 Jan 2011 #82
Nope, GW. The Russians simply had the Germans outnumbered. Wave upon wave of Russian soldiers were what defeated the Nazis. That is the main reason they won. They just had wave upon wave of soldiers while Germany only had one quick attack ;)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #83
Despite the numbers, if this psycho Hitler wouldn't split up German forces in so many fronts, there was absolutely no army in the entire world which could face the Germans 1:1 and win during the WW2.

Except the Red Army and the US Army.

All the Germans had to do is to concentrate on just one front at the time and they would have most likely won the whole thing.

But they did! In 1941 all of their active forces were in Russia and they did not win the whole thing, in fact they got whopped in the winter.

In 1942 they still had all of their active forces in Russia and were winning, kinda but it was already pretty hard.

In 1943 they lost the Battle of Kursk and it was game over and only afterKursk they started shifting forces to Italy and France so whats your point?

Nope, GW. The Russians simply had the Germans outnumbered.

Rubbish.
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
2 Jan 2011 #84
Red Army would just fight for him and a russian soldier under german command would be un-f*cking-stoppable.

In his book Panzer Battles Major General Friedrich von Mellenthin writes "no westerner can ever understand the character of a Russian, with mood swings from genuine kindness to ferocious brutality from walking over corpses of thousands of their fallen comrades to panicking after a singe gun shot the Red Army soldier is very unstable"
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
2 Jan 2011 #85
Rubbish.

They did, that's how they won. They just kept sending them west.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #86
Nope, GW. The Russians simply had the Germans outnumbered.

YES PP (lol). The point is that they wouldn't have the Germans outnumbered if Hitler wouldn't attack so many countries at the same time.

Except the Red Army and the US Army.

No exception here. At the beginning of the WW2, if Hitler wouldn't go so many different directions, the Germans if they attacked just one country at the time, would have beaten any army out there.

By the end of the WW2, that's another story, the Germans were exhausted of having to fight just about the whole world and of course they started losing the war. (anyone else would too).
Ironside 50 | 10,910
2 Jan 2011 #87
That's the dumbest movie i saw in my life

I never got around to watch it!
Resident Evil is grand film - greed and uncontrollable corporations will destroy the Earth !

no army in the entire world which could face the Germans 1:1 and win during the WW2.

What do you mean ?
one to one soldier, or one to one equipment?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #88
In his book Panzer Battles Major General Friedrich von Mellenthin writes

See? Thats exactly the result of Nazi propagana about the character of the Russian when the explanation is simple.

When Germans faced conscripts said conscripts would more often then not dump a brick and panick, when Germans faced professional soldiers or WW1/Revolution veterans they were in for hardcore mode.

As the war progressed and surviving soldiers passed on their skills more and more Red Army troopers became the nightmare with the gun that Germans were so frightened of rather than a scared civilian with a rifle they faced initially.

Google Pavlovs house.

At the beginning of the WW2, if Hitler wouldn't go so many different directions, the Germans if they attacked just one country at the time, would have beaten any army out there.

I just told you, Germans attacked Russia with 100% of their available forces, helped by Romanians, Italians, Finns, Hungarians and Slovaks and they still failed.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #89
one to one soldier, or one to one equipment?

one on one army of course, Iron lol
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #90
1941-1943 is exactly that, Wehrmacht vs Red Army, no sideshows, in 1943 Wehrmacht was beaten.


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