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Polish flag over the Reichstag first?


Kevwad 1 | 17
31 Dec 2010 #1
I recently found an interesting paragraph, I don't think anyone posted this before, sorry if this has been posted before I'm new here

Quote

"On May 2, 1945, as Polish troops advanced into Berlin, a Polish platoon of the Kosciuszko Division of 1st Polish Army first reached the Reichstag and hoisted a Polish flag on its dome, only to have it mowed down by the fire of the incoming Soviet troops. Apparently, the Polish soldier who raised the flag was killed by the Soviets racing to have their flag hoisted on the building which, for unknown and unclear reasons, they decided had the most important symbolic value in Berlin.

Both, Soviet, and Western sources as well, curiously omit and ignore the Polish participation in the final Battle of Berlin. Admittedly, in the sea of 2 million strong Red Army assaulting Berlin, the Polish troops were not so visible, but they played an important role in that battle nevertheless. About 180,000 Polish soldiers had took part in the final drive on Berlin under the command of Polish General Michal Rola-Zymierski, and 12,000 soldiers of the Kosciuszko Infantry Division, two artillery regiments and an engineering unit, found themselves in the middle of vicious battles on the streets of Berlin. Those Polish soldiers took 56 quadrants of the city, 7 factory complexes, 4 subway stations and most of the Polytechnic campus. They took 2550 POWs. But they paid a heavy price, loosing 2,800 of their own in these battles. On May 1, the Polish flag was hoisted on top of Brandenburg Gate, shortly joined by the red Soviet flag. Next day the Soviets removed the Polish flag, before advancing on the Reichstag building."

Source: loeser.us/flags/poland3.html

What's your opinion about it? Do you think it's true? Honestly I believe it, since I don't think someone would just make up something like that, plus it makes sense that the Soviets would try to erase this from history. I personally see the same NKVD officer saying the Soviets got their flag over the Reichstag first that just was talking about how the Soviets "liberated" half of Poland form the Nazis in 1939.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
31 Dec 2010 #2
What's your opinion about it? Do you think it's true?

I have not seen anything about this...but yes , of course it could be true...
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
31 Dec 2010 #3
A polish group outside of the soviet army getting to the Reichstag first??? Hard to believe...
They would had to overcome the last fanatical resistance first...before the red army...with what???
I don't know of any german witness reports telling of polish troops breaking through the Reichstag.

Nah...don't think so!

Both, Soviet, and Western sources as well, curiously omit and ignore the Polish participation in the final Battle of Berlin

There might be a reason for it....
Seanus 15 | 19,706
31 Dec 2010 #4
It is quite possible given the desire of nations to hoist their flags everywhere. It goes right back well before the time of Jesus that people wanted to assert their supremacy and show their victory through symbols.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
31 Dec 2010 #5
It is quite possible given the desire of nations to hoist their flags everywhere.

That is not the same as claiming to be the first at and IN the Reichstag...that is something else altogether.

We surely would had heard of it...
Seanus 15 | 19,706
31 Dec 2010 #6
I agree, BB. Still, it is not entirely implausible. It is a strange world we live in.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
31 Dec 2010 #7
Well..alot of german soldiers, other axis soldiers and civilians had been there...why should they all want to omit the polish feat for 60 years now?
wildrover 98 | 4,451
31 Dec 2010 #8
Of course it would not have been possible for anyone to tell they were Polish soldiers..their uniform would have been the normal Red army one...
Seanus 15 | 19,706
31 Dec 2010 #9
Why would Russia have hidden their Katyń deeds for so long? Why would many Brits not acknowledge the Polish contribution in WWII? The world isn't linear, BB.
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
31 Dec 2010 #10
Why would Russia have hidden their Katyń deeds for so long?

Simple, it portrays them in an evil light.

Why would many Brits not acknowledge the Polish contribution in WWII?

They do! At least the older generation does. History is exactly that, we are seeing the beginnings of ww2 becoming only history.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
31 Dec 2010 #11
That's why I asked about the Germans and their allies who at this time had been in the town, not to speak of the civilians! Not the Soviets...

Of course it would not have been possible for anyone to tell they were Polish soldiers..their uniform would have been the normal Red army one...

Well, if they did wear the red army uniform, and probably used russian weapons, tanks etc. then it had been the Soviets, not the polish army.

The red army was quite international too...that might explain it.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
31 Dec 2010 #12
Polish banners were proudly flying all over Berlin in 1945. Not sure about the Reichstag but there was one over Tiergarten rail-road station and over the Brandenburg Gate.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
31 Dec 2010 #13
Well, if they did wear the red army uniform, and probably used russian weapons, tanks etc.

Poles , Ukrainans , Belarussians , all wore the same uniform , and used the same equipment as the Russians in the Red army...
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
31 Dec 2010 #14
Yeah...I know, the red army was full of non-russians. The asiatic soldiers from the East made an especially memorable impression.

Polish banners were proudly flying all over Berlin in 1945.

Nobody disputes that...only that Poles had been the first and especially on the Reichstag.

I never heard of that!
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
31 Dec 2010 #15
I never heard of that!

I heard the rumour before but never seen any proof for it to be taken seriously,
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
31 Dec 2010 #16
Battle of Berlin - Schlacht um Berlin - Bitwa o Berlin and the Polish Army


Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
31 Dec 2010 #17
So the Poles fighted within the Ukrainians in the Red Army?

And you demand from the common German to differentiate between them??? ;)
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
31 Dec 2010 #18
So the Poles fighted within the Ukrainians in the Red Army?

Don't worry about it BB Marusia will calm everything down....
OP Kevwad 1 | 17
31 Dec 2010 #19
A polish group outside of the soviet army getting to the Reichstag first???

There were poles fighting in the red army with the Polish 1st and 2nd army. Their Uniforms were similar, but they did have the polish eagle on their helmets and squared caps.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
31 Dec 2010 #20
Don't worry about it BB Marusia will calm everything down....

Pretty, pretty war ;)
wildrover 98 | 4,451
31 Dec 2010 #21
And you demand from the common German to differentiate between them???

It would have been impossible to tell unless you were familiar with all the languages..and if you heard them speak of course...

All soldiers in the Red army were expected to speak Russian..
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
1 Jan 2011 #22
Pretty, pretty war ;)

All soldiers in the Red army were expected to speak Russian..

Even our beloved Marusia spoke Russian as did most Polish soldiers from the east being born or deported to those lands.
Babinich 1 | 455
1 Jan 2011 #23
A polish group outside of the soviet army getting to the Reichstag first??? Hard to believe...

Instead of arguing who reached the Reichstag first I'd ask at what cost.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
1 Jan 2011 #24
The Red army lost huge numbers of men and tanks capturing Berlin...Stalin was convinced the capital held many of the German secrets , including ducuments on how to make an Atomic bomb , and he wanted to get these secrets before the Americans or British did , no matter what the cost was in lives...

The Americans and British were quite happy for the Russians to take Berlin , they had some idea what the cost would be....
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
1 Jan 2011 #25
The Red army lost huge numbers of men and tanks capturing Berlin...Stalin was convinced the capital held many of the German secrets

Stalin had sacrificed hundreds of thousands of men by setting dates he wanted cities captured by, Berlin, Kiev.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
1 Jan 2011 #26
The battle for the Seelowe heights near Berlin is one case....

More recent examples please!
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #27
Almost every battle on the Russian front was fought this way...

That however was not because russian commanders were dumb or clumsy as many would have it, they just had loads of men and didnt value their lives one bit.

More recent examples please!

Assault on Kabul when 300 tanks and more then 200 IFVs entered the city unsupported (today commanders are clumsy).
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
2 Jan 2011 #28
That however was not because russian commanders were dumb or clumsy as many would have it, they just had loads of men and didnt value their lives one bit.

Apropos...interesting link: vojnik.org/en/3

A judgement about who was best in WWII, from Russians no less! ;)

Speaks Daniil Granin (born in 1919), who spent 3 years in the blockading (by German and Finnish troops) Leningrad:

«The Germans fought better, much better than our soldiers. Moreover - we`ve managed to win that war only by human flesh!»...

The author of several military and patriotic novels, Vasiljev tells:

«We`ve managed to win the war by chance, absolutely...

The late Viktor Astafjev was on the Soviet-German front all the war long, 1941-1945:

«The Germans fought much, much better - in all respects! The Communists chose to shed rivers of the Russian blood literally in order to win the War. The Soviets won over Germany only by their extreme brutality and inhumanity!»

PennBoy 76 | 2,436
2 Jan 2011 #29
More recent examples please!

Storming Grozny Chechnya, Russians thought they'd just go in with lots of armor Chechens were gonna s**t their pants and give up, a brigade was lured and ambushed by Chechens with RPGs and anti tank missiles all armor destroyed lots of soldiers killed they didn't even bother putting on armor blocks on the turrets.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #30
Apropos...interesting link: vojnik.org/en/3

great link BB.


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