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How come Polonization never works?


Niko
30 Oct 2015 #31
Every nation has its share of weirdos.
OP bigfoot
30 Oct 2015 #32
*sighs*

Thats why we never move forward. We are stuck in this hateful medieval mindstate.
We accept corruption.
Cover up our own faults.
Gloss over the blatant reality of our backwardness.
And tear each other down when any of us speaks the truth.
To the cross goes a truth sayer in his own country.
If Jesus returned and went to Poland today we would crucify him in a second.
Such is our hypocrisy and pathetic nature.
The best of us leave Poland: Chopin, Marie Skłodowska.
Only the trash remains....
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Oct 2015 #33
Only the trash remains..

Like Copernicus, Kochanowski, Rey, Sobieski, Piłsudski, Szymanowski, Wyszyński, etc.
dany_moussalli 13 | 259
30 Oct 2015 #34
You only emphasize the negatives.
you can consider the revolution against communism as a successful polonization..
since poland started it and the other eastern block countries followed... (not to forget that there were previous attempts in other countries), maybe germany would still be divided without the courage of the polish people...

also Poland serves a great example in economics of shifting from communism to open market as it has done it in a very successful way while other countries are still suffering, polish economy has been growing and has been stable for years... and the people and the young generations are opening up more and getting more educated.
OP bigfoot
30 Oct 2015 #35
*sighs*

Nothing that happened after 1989 was unique to Poland. Czech Republic is much stronger than we are. Even Slovaks come to Poland for cheap beer.

The Hungarians fought the Soviets in the 1950s and we did NOTHING to help.

We are cowards.

If Napoleon had conquered us and brought us French culture instead of our savage sub-culture, we would have a thousand Chopins by now.

Instead we have medieval catholic superstition, hatred and barbarism.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Oct 2015 #36
NOTHING to help.

Au contraire, Poland openly defied the Soviets and sent plasma and medical supplies to Hungarian revolutionaries in a train guarded by Polish soldiers across Czechoslovak territory and in spite of the Czech regime's objections.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
30 Oct 2015 #37
That's very interesting - I didn't know they did that!

Czech Republic is much stronger than we are. Even Slovaks come to Poland for cheap beer.

Uh...the Czech Republic most certainly isn't stronger than Poland. Neither is Slovakia.

Bratislava and Warsaw are comparable, but Poland has nothing comparable to the crushing poverty of Eastern Slovakia. The Czech Republic is badly governed and has been for years - the only thing that keeps it richer (just) than Poland was the success of collective farming there. If Poland had done the same thing, the country would be far richer these days.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Oct 2015 #38
collective farming

Maybe richer economically but not in spirit. Czechs passively accepted Nazi rule and after the war -- Stalinism and official atheisation.
Poles risked fines, job loss and jail to resist whoelsale collectivisation, and farmwives would lie in the road to prevent bulldozers and lorries trying to build kolkhozes. As a result, Poland's agriculture was the least collectivised attesting to the Polish peasant's great attachment to the soil. And those tiny private plots outproduced the big fancy state farms and collective farms because pżrivate smallholders knew how to farm. The state farms were like enterprises, people worked 8 horus and quit. But farms don't run that way, livestock must be tended, milked, cleaned and fed at different times, roofs leak, things break down.. I visited both big state farms (PGR) and smaller collective farms (spółdzielnia produkcja) -- they all had offices full or clerks and PZPR overseers, filing cabinets, typerwiters and piles of forms, but were weak in the yield department. Overhead ate up most of the theoretical advantages of pooled resources and collective effort.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
30 Oct 2015 #39
Polonius, was the PGR concept a total failure, or did it work with any particular kind of farming?

The Polish resistance to collectivisation was quite commendable, but it seems that huge problems were caused later by people subdividing already relatively small plots (<10ha) among family members. I was reading something a while ago about the rise of "Rural Solidarność" - and how many of their members were living in poverty because their holdings were just too small.

But for what it's worth, I really don't perceive the Czech Republic or Slovakia to be richer than Poland. There's two fantastic examples that I'm aware of - Kudowa-Zdrój/Nachod and Cieszyn/Cesky Tesin. The Polish side in both cases is far, far, far nicer than the Czech. In Cieszyn for example - the Polish side is full of life every day of the week, while the Czech side is economically dead and seems to exist only on selling non-vodka products to Poles. Same story in Kudowa - which is a very nice place, but the Czech side is terrible.
OP bigfoot
30 Oct 2015 #40
*sighs*

Estonia
Lithuania
Czech Republic
Slovakia
Slovenia

ALL of these countries have a better per capita lifestyle than we do.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

And this is DESPITE the fact that many of them are factoring in gypsies and Czech and Slovakia have a far worse gypsy problem then we do.

No wonder Lithuania hates us: we could only make them more impoverished.
nothanks - | 640
30 Oct 2015 #41
IPoland has tried to bully itself on neighbors but was always repulsed successfully. The culture is considered inferior and toxic by fellow Europeans.

So is Russia's rich History......

The reason lies in us being Slavic. US-UK-France-Germany will go to War to ensure Western Civ never turns Slavic
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Oct 2015 #42
PGR concept a total failure

I'm no agricultural expert however commie-era statistics have always been suspect. Under Gierek, statistics were selected and moulded in such a way to make Poland the world's 10th largest economic power. Presumably some PGRs were more successful than others but on balance they couldn't compete wtih smallholder production. Employees ripped the company off, saying if it's state property that means it belongs to us. Tools, fertiliser, tyres, batteries and other hard-to-buy items mysteriously disappeared. Why not google PGR.
OP bigfoot
30 Oct 2015 #43
@ nothanks

What does "slavic" have to do with Hungary, Estonia and Lithuania?

Oh, ya nothing....

Russia the most uncivilized place on earth next to North Korea.

Russia is more mongoloid than European.

If that is "slavic" to you than I'd rather be in "decadent" Paris, thank you very much.

No, Poland is just a generic, crappy eastern European blob of nothingness.

Our national ego makes us look like clowns.

The only way to move forward is to realize this, and learn the reality of the situation: we can be as good as Germany and France but only if we evolve the way they did out of medieval barbarism and towards science and logic.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Oct 2015 #44
science and logic

Zyklon-B was pure science and logic. It produced higher output at a lower pricey than using exhaust fumes for extermination. The latter was a waste of precious fuel that could be better used to power tanks, APCs and troop trucks. Also, first structurally weakening buildings in Warsaw with flame-throwers enabled one to use that much less dynamite to blow them up. Simple economic logic.
Chemikiem 7 | 2,568
30 Oct 2015 #45
Zyklon-B was pure science and logic.

I can't quite believe you have actually posted this. Just how low can you get?
OP bigfoot
30 Oct 2015 #46
*sighs*

Zyklon B was more painless than what happened in Katyn or Jedwabne.

That being said, its a logical fallacy to equate efficiency with brutality.

Unless you can mass produce Zyklon B yourself, don't judge others, because there are plenty of Poles that would love to use Zyklon B on gypsies.

If German brutality was superior to Polish or Russian, its only because of their superior organizational skills.

We are every bit as brutal and ruthless as they are.
Chemikiem 7 | 2,568
30 Oct 2015 #47
It produced higher output at a lower pricey than using exhaust fumes for extermination.

I'm sure that came as a great comfort to the over one million killed in the gas chambers with it.

Zyklon B was more painless than what happened in Katyn or Jedwabne.

So that makes it ok then?

I'm not going to comment further on this thread. The way it is going has nothing to do with your first post anyway.
OP bigfoot
30 Oct 2015 #48
*sighs*

It has EVERYTHING to do with the first post. You are proving my point, over and over.

Brutality is never a good thing, but it cannot be equated with scientific advancements.

A better example would be Louis Pasteur and Germ Theory, one reason why the French (and other Westerners) cover their mouths when they cough.

I wish we could at least get this right.
whocares
30 Oct 2015 #49
bigfoot please stop. I dont think you are Polish but if you are stop with the self-hating.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
30 Oct 2015 #50
No wonder Lithuania hates us: we could only make them more impoverished.

ehhh..they hate us,cus they saw Poland as a threat to their culture.Poland totally polonized GDL without even trying,to the point that Lithuanian language almost disappeared and had to be reinvented.GDL was inferior in every aspect of military,social and economic life.total polonization of ruthenia and lithuania was just matter of time,but was halted by russia and rzeczpospolitas internal weakness.

The only way to move forward is to realize this, and learn the reality of the situation: we can be as good as Germany and France but only if we evolve the way they did out of medieval barbarism and towards science and logic.

start evolving from yourself then
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
31 Oct 2015 #51
Poles that would love to use Zyklon B

There is probably more than one PF-er who wouldn't mind using it on a troll like you! PF is supposed to be a discussion forum, not a provocation platform!
gregy741 4 | 1,204
31 Oct 2015 #52
i actually doubt hes polish.he lack basic history knowledge,probably pretend to be polish so he can insult us
OP bigfoot
31 Oct 2015 #53
*sighs*

Lets ignore the premise and bash the messenger. THATS logical....

Lithuania hates us.....One way people conquer is with SOFT power, as in people WANT to be like you. NOBODY wants to be like us; they PITY us.

Lets keep blaming everyone but ourselves and bash those we disagree with.....

Thats a wonderful way to move forward....
gregy741 4 | 1,204
31 Oct 2015 #54
ok so to answer this question is simple.Poland has never had any polonization policy towards people they ruled.germans always resettled people,destroyed or forcefully germanized (prussia,polabia,pommerania ,silezia.ect) Poland never cared of polonization of areas its controlled. didnt even tried to convert them into Catholicism.

Instead we have medieval catholic superstition, hatred and barbarism

not sure ,you even understand what you blabbing about.one might criticize Catholicism on many levels but as a culture input into nation its like a nuke bomb.

architecture,art,customs,traditions related to Catholicism is massive.
you say poland has no culture instead has catolicizm and therefore should go into science...got lost here
OP bigfoot
31 Oct 2015 #55
*sighs*

YES, catholicism is a culture...a culture from ITALY.

Have you ever been to Rodom?

Do you know who built that?

Italians......

So we don't have our own culture.

Regarding you (lack of) knowledge of history, Poland sent Catholic crusaders to the Baltics to convert the pagan peoples there. Poland was always just a German lap dog, but it was a Cathoic dog, nevertheless.

Regarding forced Polonization, your boy Piłsudski closed over 266 Lithuanian schools in the 1930's.

Then they forcefully settled Poles in Lithuania....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osadnik

Dispute that Mr. History Professor Who Isn't Even Polish.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
31 Oct 2015 #56
Poland never cared of polonization of areas its controlled. didnt even tried to convert them into Catholicism.

Hahahaa. Good try Gregy, but the reality was that Poland very much did care about it in the II RP.

i actually doubt hes polish.he lack basic history knowledge,probably pretend to be polish so he can insult us

It's just that Levi guy again. He has a ridiculous amount of trolls on here who either love or hate Poland. There's some very obvious linguistical mistakes that he makes that aren't characteristic of Polish native speakers.

Either way, he's a troll.
OP bigfoot
31 Oct 2015 #57
*sighs*

Lets play the everyone-is-a-troll-but-me card.

Great way to try to shut down the conversation.

That being said, you at least are not ignorant of Poland's history.
Nathans
31 Oct 2015 #58
bigfood, it's time for you to go back to cherishing the glorified blog (huffposts, reddit and such). You let yourself go loose, but your arguments are very weak to sound and non-progressive minds. Poland will never be progressive and will always treat folks like you with non-respect unless you stop your nonsense social justice/injustice games.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
31 Oct 2015 #59
you have actually posted this

Perhaps the irony was lost on you. The point was to show someone glorifying logic and science that those too can be abused to do evil things.
OP bigfoot
31 Oct 2015 #60
I'm not a leftist.
Actually, quite the opposite.
Catholicism is leftist - look at your pope (papal infallibility) who praises gays, and bashes capitalism.
I think your guy Francis gets his ideas from Huffington Post.
But if you ARE a real Catholic you have to obey what he says.....
Either way, you are straying from the premise.


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