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Colonel Mikolaj Sciborski - unknown Polish leader of OUN


Nathan 18 | 1,363
19 Aug 2010 #1
Mikolaj Sciborski (aka. Рокош, Оганский, Житомирский) (1897-1941) was a Polish born in Zhytomyr (Ukraine). He was a supporter of Petliura and served in Ukrainian People's Army, where he got a colonel rank in 1920. Emmigrated to Czechoslovakia, then to France after the defeat of Petliura. He was one of the organizers of the Ukrainian League of Nationalists in the early 1920s. From 1927 a member of Ukrainian Nationalists Organization, where he was a leading political theorist. In 1929 was elected as the 1st vice-president of the organization. He wrote the following works:

"Workers and OUN" (1932)
"OUN and farmers" (1933)
"Naciokratia" (1935) - the most famous;
"Ukraine in numbers" (1940)
"Stalinism" (1940)
In 1939 under the directive of Andrij Mel'nyk (OUN leader) wrote a draft of Ukrainian Constitution. After the invasion of Nazi Germany, Sciborski went to Kijiw to organize the Ukrainian national resitance groups. He was killed by Soviet partisans in 1941.

This is some of the very limited amount of information I found on Col. Mikolaj Sciborski. He is considered one of the leading political theorists of Ukrainian nationalism of the 20th century, but unfortunately, there are not enough (if at all) either Ukrainian or Polish information on him. Usually Mikolaj Sciborski is mentioned in Russian links where he is depicted in bad light since he is an important representative of Polish-Ukrainian cooperation in anti-Russian military expansionism as well as his works served as the foundation of national state formation with its own ideology.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
19 Aug 2010 #2
Notice how he did not murder polish women and children the way ukrainian "freedom fighters" did.

Also its only natural ukrainians would need someone from outside to write a contitution for them given they never had a political elite being peasants and all.
Ironside 51 | 11,342
19 Aug 2010 #3
I'm sure he never thought about Lwow as an Ukrainian city!
OP Nathan 18 | 1,363
19 Aug 2010 #4
would need someone from outside to write a contitution for them

Mikolaj Sciborski was born in Ukraine. So how come he is from outside? :) LOL
He was a Ukrainian of Polish decent, who did a lot of fighting for Ukrainian independance and brought some marvelous works of Ukrainian national ideology in crazy time and place like inter-war Europe and especially its Eastern part.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
19 Aug 2010 #5
Ukrainian national ideology

ukrainian national ideology boils down to murdering polish women and children and running away from polish military.

Also an important part of ukrainian ideology is to talk about a single war ukraine managed not to lose against Poland (it didnt win but it didnt lose either so its something!) and ignore the other 8 wars in which they got thoroughly pwned, including the 1918 war when their most elite units were beaten by polish children aged 12-18 in Lwów.
OP Nathan 18 | 1,363
19 Aug 2010 #6
Also an important part of ukrainian ideology is to talk about a single war

You have a very limited idea about what an ideology is. It has very little to do with discussing wars against "women and children". If you read the works of Col. Sciborski, you would understand that he was involved in developing new state foundations which would bring unity to different sides of conflict and be therefore, successful in repulsing Soviet agression, not only in Ukraine, but in Poland as well.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
19 Aug 2010 #7
You have a very limited idea about what an ideology is.

Achieve independence by murdering defencless polish civilians.

It has very little to do with discussing wars against "women and children".

But ukrainians waged war on defencless civilians exactly because of their ideology, do you want me to quote UPA and OUN in what their ideology was? The national heroes of ukraine quite explicitly stated that their goal is to murder polish civilians because they can't defeat Poland in any other way.

you would understand that he was involved in developing new state foundations which would bring unity to different sides of conflict and be therefore, successful in repulsing Soviet agression, not only in Ukraine, but in Poland as well.

I'm sorry but Poland was succesfull in repulsing Soviet agression as early as 1920, its only ukraine that failed miserably.

Poland despite being a much smaller nation managed to mobilise nearly a milion men in the space of less than four months, ukraine failed to mobilise even 60.000.

Thats a pretty awesome nation though, in times of dire need ukrainians were able to give only 60.000 men, thats least then 1/10th of what Poland mustered!
David_18 68 | 982
19 Aug 2010 #8
HAHAHA Sokrates you for sure hate ukrainians more then me xD
Ironside 51 | 11,342
19 Aug 2010 #9
Nobody hates Ukrainians, but Nazi ideology cannot be tolerated.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
19 Aug 2010 #11
HAHAHA Sokrates you for sure hate ukrainians more then me xD

I do not hate ukrainians, the sad part is everything i wrote here is true and can be easily proven with online sources if challenged.

Ukraine is built on nazi ideology and fascist history as well as graves of polish, jewish and to lesser extent ukrainian victims of what Nathan calls "ukrainian ideology".

Everything else i wrote also stands as historical truth.
David_18 68 | 982
19 Aug 2010 #12
I do not hate ukrainians, the sad part is everything i wrote here is true and can be easily proven with online sources if challenged.

I never said it's not true, but your dedication about our beloved ukrianian Brothers really fascinates me ;)
Sire Brenshar 1 | 61
19 Aug 2010 #13
Good for Mikolaj! Very unfortunate he was killed; he could have been a great example for helping Ukrainian-Polish relations during and after the war.

Please ignore Sokrates. He does not represent the majority of Poles, in fact he only represents an isolated, depraved, hate-mongering, and a very tiny minority of us.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
19 Aug 2010 #14
Good for Mikolaj! Very unfortunate he was killed; he could have been a great example for helping Ukrainian-Polish relations during and after the war.

Brenshar you do realise that Ściborski postulated murdering the entire polish elite and was an ardent soviet supporter? Carefull whom you're defending.
OP Nathan 18 | 1,363
19 Aug 2010 #15
Good for Mikolaj! Very unfortunate he was killed; he could have been a great example for helping Ukrainian-Polish relations during and after the war.

Absolutely. He was an incredibly intelligent man, colonel at 23!, hard-working person who would have made so much more if not killed at age of 44 by Soviet communists.

Please ignore Sokrates. He does not represent the majority of Poles, in fact he only represents an isolated, depraved, hate-mongering, and a very tiny minority of us.

He proved many times to be a pathetic zero who wastes his time in writing nonsense instead of contributing something of value. Every society has its scum - nothing you can do.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
19 Aug 2010 #16
Absolutely. He was an incredibly intelligent man, colonel at 23!, hard-working person who would have made so much more if not killed at age of 44 by Soviet communists.

He claimed that ukrainian crimes on polish civilians were a neccesity!

He proved many times to be a pathetic zero who wastes his time in writing nonsense instead of contributing something of value. Every society has its scum - nothing you can do.

Just because much of ukrainian history is a string of shamefull episodes doesnt mean i'm scum for bringing it up.

Its also worth to note that many of the OUN-M of which Sciborski was a leading member would later serve in SS and participate in some of the more heinous crimes, even for ukrainians who during WW2 in cruelty exceeded both the Germans and Russians, murdering Poles, Jews and even fellow ukrainians in horrific manner.
OP Nathan 18 | 1,363
19 Aug 2010 #17
Everything else you wrote also stands as historical truth.

Thanks. I try to be as objective as possible. It is very interesting to discover people of Polish and Ukrainian upbringing to work together against adversaries who were present in abundance in pre-, war and after-war periods on Polish and Ukrainian lands. Because of people like Col. Sciborski, devoted and hard-working, lots was achieved and Ukraine and Poland cheer in their longed fought for true indepndance.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
19 Aug 2010 #18
Thanks. I try to be as objective as possible.

So not only do you edit wikipedia when you can't win otherwise and then quote yourself but you also change my quotes? Must be that famous ukrainian intellect that made ukraine so famous for its many scientists and artists...oh wait.

. It is very interesting to discover people of Polish and Ukrainian upbringing to work together against adversaries

You'd love that wouldnt you? You'd love for Poles to forget that the primary activity of UPA was murdering polish civilians not fighting anyone, you'd love Poles to swallow ukrainian version of history where ukrainians never murdered 250.000 polish civilians, where they didnt ally themselves with Germans and served in SS.

Sorry Nathan there can't be reconcilliation if the price of it is to do that on the corpses of people your nation murdered.
OP Nathan 18 | 1,363
20 Aug 2010 #19
Sorry Nathan there can't be reconcilliation

I have never said anything about reconciliation. Between Ukraine and Poland there is nothing to reconcile, but to go forward as both countries do for 20 years now. Glad that people of both countries find common language and work for the benefit of their states and themselves.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
20 Aug 2010 #20
Between Ukraine and Poland there is nothing to reconcile

250.000 dead polish men women and children murdered by ukrainians is nothing to reconcile? Arent you a nice little nazi.


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