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The Polish Blame Culture!


Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Apr 2010 #61
I think we can blame the culture of the times tbh. Just look back at the international 'maneuvering' agreements of that epoch, they were classic chess playing moves and, with the benefit of hindsight, rather transparent and weak ones. Britain and France were to help Poland in the event of an attack but Churchill was such a bumptious git that valued only personal and imperial-type glory.

The even more disturbing thing is that, in retrospect, we have progressed little. International law is still laughable and, without teeth, could lead to catastrophic consequences for those who have no interest in its proper enforcement (those that should).

... jesteśmy z Wami. Let's look at successes and how the war was WON, not lost :) Hats tipped to the Polish pilots!

youtube.com/watch?v=TQVnV0pm5TA&feature=related
Spitfire Ace, I wanna watch the whole series.
Arien 3 | 721
25 Apr 2010 #62
To keep a long story short, I don't think anyone can blame anyone these days anymore. I mean, who on this forum for example, can honestly say that he or she fought in the second world war? I certainly can't, and most of you can't either. So what are we talking about?

;)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Apr 2010 #63
Very true, Arien! The fact is that 2 madmen caused many deaths 70 years ago.

youtube.com/watch?v=G9BqTQYO80A&feature=related
British RAF pilots really defied the odds and led Britain to a famous victory. Britain lasted about 6 years, others didn't even last 6 weeks ;) ;)

Seriously, the important thing is that the Allies won and America played a major part.
Arien 3 | 721
25 Apr 2010 #64
Very true, Arien! The fact is that 2 madmen caused many death 70 years ago.

It's important to remember, and ofcourse new findings and conclusions should be discussed at any given time, but why blame people who aren't responsible? I myself for example, am very proud of the Dutch soldiers who fought really hard to keep the Germans out, but I'm not so proud of all the Dutch people who joined the NSB, or even worse, the SS. However, I'm not responsible for what the old folks did. It doesn't make you a hero because your grandfather or grandmother opposed or even fought the Nazi's. It doesn't make you a better person when you hold a teenager from today's Germany responsible for the second world war either.

I'm right and you know it, so **** another discussion about who's to blame. Stalin and Hitler were to blame, and ofcourse all the people who served them were to blame. Most of those people are dead now. It's important we all remember though, and even more important to learn from it, and hopefully some people realize that it all started with blaming other people, so let's not do that again?

:)
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
25 Apr 2010 #65
the Allies

yes they did, Poland on the other hand did not, even though she was an ally.

Thanks for the videos by the way.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Apr 2010 #66
Poland had to cope with German foot soldiers and, let's face it, Britain could hardly have put troops in place in time to help them. It just wasn't an option.

No worries, matey. I'm watching the whole series now.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
25 Apr 2010 #67
It doesn't make you a hero because your grandfather or grandmother opposed or even fought the Nazi's. It doesn't make you a better person when you hold a teenager from today's Germany responsible for the second world war either.

No it does not you are right, and i doubt there would be many who hold a teenager from Germany responsible for the war. However just because you were not involved in the war, it doesn't mean that your life wasn't altered by it in some way.

Poland had to cope with German foot soldiers and, let's face it, Britain could hardly have put troops in place in time to help them. It just wasn't an option.

No worries, matey. I'm watching the whole series now.

You are right, there would have to have been a hell of a lot of coordination and cooperation and it just did not exist, and i guess that the French and British were not quite mentally or physically recovered from the first war.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Apr 2010 #68
Well, that's why we have memorial days and lay wreaths to those that gave us our freedom.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
25 Apr 2010 #69
Do you know there is a really great documentary on the war, it is old but still one of the best in my opinion, narrated by sir Laurence Olivier (i think) it's called The World at War, i think it is on youtube.

Another good more recent one is, behind closed doors: world war 2.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Apr 2010 #70
I love watching that stuff. Bravery triumphed over mechanical destruction.
Arien 3 | 721
25 Apr 2010 #71
However just because you were not involved in the war, it doesn't mean that your life wasn't altered by it in some way.

Ofcourse, but then again the same can be said about every other choice that has been made in the past. For example, your father could've decided not to have children, which would've meant that you wouldn't have been here. I guess I just mean to say that you can't really use the second world war as an explanation for every choice that has been made in the past.

:)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Apr 2010 #72
The lack of gratitude plays a major part. I've seen it time and again that Poles seem to even expect good deeds and don't thank you for them. At times it is shocking for me!
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
25 Apr 2010 #73
choice

well with war you don't have much in the way of choice though

good deeds and don't thank you for them. At times it is shocking for me!

I must say I am very disappointed to hear that, i hope it isn't something ingrained. I also have to say that within the immediate community I move around, quite the reverse is true, same thing among the gorale from Malopolsaka, just my personal observations.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Apr 2010 #74
That was said with no axes to grind. I have a great Polish family and brilliant friends that go out of their way to help me. I just see a lack of thanks where it would be automatic for me. Ah well, everyone is raised differently and I don't blame them. I'm sure they have good reason!
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
25 Apr 2010 #75
You would be pleased to know that Scots have a very good reputation it seems according to this, a speech by Edward Werner to the Empire Club of Canada.

"Another example is less far-fetched. Polish troops are stationed also somewhere in Scotland. At first, Poles disliked the weather in Scotland. Later they wrote to relatives in the United States: "If the weather in Scotland makes the people as they are, we wish that that weather would prevail all over the world."

It is a very good speech overall, you can access it by looking for Edward Werner on google, scrolling down on his page and clicking the link below.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Apr 2010 #76
There was a lot of mutual respect between Scots and Poles during WWII. Many Poles settled after the war due to the warm welcome they received.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
25 Apr 2010 #77
It is a very good speech overall, you can access it by looking for Edward Werner on google, scrolling down on his page and clicking the link below. WIKIPEDIA THAT IS. didn't have it on before thats all.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
25 Apr 2010 #78
That was said with no axes to grind. I have a great Polish family and brilliant friends that go out of their way to help me.

Apologise for Mel Gibson, then talk about manners.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Apr 2010 #79
Sokrates, if it isn't money, it's Mel Gibson. What's the deal with that? A Scot should have played that role, Gerald Butler springs to mind.

Anyway, please stay on track as this is more about manners and pointing fingers than it is about Mel Gibson, an American-Aussie.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,385
25 Apr 2010 #80
Gerald Butler

tut,tut. Gerard :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Apr 2010 #81
Oops, sorry, temporary Japanese syndrome ;) ;) That's the only defence I can think of given the gap between the 'r' and 'l' keys :)

I felt there was sth amiss. Thanks for the correction!

Wrocław, how about you? You are complimentary towards many Poles like I am but do you see or hear about blaming?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
25 Apr 2010 #82
it's Mel Gibson. What's the deal with that?

You betrayed the most awesome movie director in the world selling him to the British.

Anyway Seanus while i'm glad that people like you choose to live here your lack of comprehension towards our b*tching and moaning clearly shows that nations are different:)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Apr 2010 #83
I betrayed no-one!

The Scots bi*ch and moan too, Sok. I was talking about a lack of gratitude which is a different thing.

What do you feel I don't understand? Do you think the 'Polish spirit' has part of its roots in WWII? If so, how?
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,961
25 Apr 2010 #84
Do you think the 'Polish spirit' has part of its roots in WWII? If so, how?

The nowadays Polish spirit certainly has ;)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
25 Apr 2010 #85
The Scots bi*ch and moan too, Sok.

Yes but there's Scottish ******** and moaning and Polish ******** and moaning:)

I was talking about a lack of gratitude which is a different thing.

To be honest i didnt see anything out of ordinary here, its the same as with England.

Do you think the 'Polish spirit' has part of its roots in WWII? If so, how?

Every nation is built by history so of course our spirit has part of its roots in WWII.

Poland was the country that not only suffered the most but was denied the right to recover for decades willingly forgotten by the West.

The entire myth of Poles as vile anti-semites and car thieves was given birth to shove Poland and what was done to it by the powers of Europe under the carpet and now people from said countries drop by and tell us to stop b*tching.

Unlike Jews we do not try to extort money or constant apologies but we do want to remember and discuss what was done to us, we want to remember so it doesnt happen to us the next time and anyone who thinks this is just some blame game we enjoy is either ignorant or arogant.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,385
25 Apr 2010 #86
but do you see or hear about blaming

i'll take the easy route. it doesn't matter who or where you are, if there is a problem or argument then there is always someone to blame.

some of these arguments are more about determining the true character of a person. in other words you may find yourself set up in order to defend something.

also, much of this blame game is limited. it's almost an introductory topic for some people to mention sept 39. however, most people understand there are more important, present day, issues to worry or talk about.

there can't be many countries or cultures who don't blame another for at least one of their problems, present day or past.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Apr 2010 #87
Oh, do tell Sok, what's the difference. Don't underestimate the Scottish griping factor ;)

Maybe, I have never lived in England so I will let English people comment.

Willingly forgotten? We have history books in GB, you know?

I agree that Poland was the victim of harshly inaccurate literature. Żegota and many other acts of bravery show that! Also, just imagine the punishment for being caught. I don't blame the Poles at all for turning away some Jews. It wasn't their fault Hitler was doolalley.

If reparations ever creep to the fore, I sincerely hope that Tusk rejects all those spurious claims but I have my doubts.

True enough, Wrocław. Appeasement and crazy men were largely to blame but that's just how it was.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
25 Apr 2010 #88
Oh, do tell Sok, what's the difference. Don't underestimate the Scottish griping factor ;)

Ah no as far as griping you're almost Polish level.

Willingly forgotten? We have history books in GB, you know?

They're so leftist i wanted to puke reading them, i'd like to read a good history book sadly most of them are biased sh*t, Polish ones seem less so but that might be me being a Pole...

If reparations ever creep to the fore, I sincerely hope that Tusk rejects all those spurious claims but I have my doubts

He's already giving away our industry to Germany, whats to stop him from making us suffer jewish extortion?
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,961
25 Apr 2010 #89
They're so leftist i wanted to puke reading them,

Yeah... But I get the basic general info about something (I get to know the subject) later on I just search it up or look for a real book :)

i'd like to read a good history book sadly most of them are biased sh*t

There are many aspects I like to read all of them ^^

Polish ones seem less so but that might be me being a Pole...

You got that one right :/

whats to stop him from making us suffer jewish extortion?

Przewrót Majowy!!! :D
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
25 Apr 2010 #90
However just because you were not involved in the war, it doesn't mean that your life wasn't altered by it in some way.

No, it means nothing. Why? Because you weren't alive before WW2, so there is nothing to change as such. You were born in certain circumstances, and that is your life. Your life is not altered, your grandparent's life has altered due to WW2, not your life, because the circumstances were already altered before you were born. Therefore it's nonsese for the current generation to nag and whine about sth that happened 70 years ago when they were not alive anyway. Their parents or grandparents were allowed to, but not they themselves.

In short, your life's not changed, because you haven't experienced what it was like before it all changed.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

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