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70th Anniversary of Sikorskis Death (Newark)


Tim Bucknall 7 | 98
8 Jul 2013 #1
a wonderful and fitting tribute to the Great man, thanks to the Newark Town Council for making us so welcome and to the Polish Consulate in Manchester for arranging the trip

Tim Bucknall
kresy-siberia.org







goofy_the_dog
9 Jul 2013 #2
He was probably killed by the brits to please Stalin that really hated Sikorski.
Phhii allies my arse..
jon357 63 | 15,068
9 Jul 2013 #3
He was probably killed by the British to please Stalin that really hated Sikorski.

Rubbish. The matter was dealt with years ago and anything else is pure paranoia.
goofy_the_dog
9 Jul 2013 #4
Of course it was all dealt years ago when poland didnt exist ;)
Read up
theyve even changed a pilot just before the flight.
jon357 63 | 15,068
9 Jul 2013 #5
It was dealt with within the last decade (and Poland certainly existed before 1989 if that's what you're weakly trying to impute).

You may remember the very recent autopsy.

theyve even changed a pilot just before the flight.

Not unusual.
Harry
9 Jul 2013 #6
He was probably killed by the brits to please Stalin that really hated Sikorski.

Would those be the same Brits whom Polish liars love to claim excluded Polish representatives from the London Victory parade to please Stalin?

The matter was dealt with years ago and anything else is pure paranoia.

Paranoia mixed with an unhealthy dose of lies and ignorance.
goofy_the_dog
9 Jul 2013 #7
Yaawn..
The documents regarding the catastrophe are still top secret and wwill probably for the next 40-50 years.
Theyve sold us in Tehran and yalta for they never gave a shyte about PL.
Harry
9 Jul 2013 #8
Theyve sold us in Tehran and yalta

Really? And what was the price paid or promised? I mean, we all know the exact amount that Poland sold her Ukrainian allies to the USSR for, so why is it that nobody can ever give even an approximate price for the supposed sale of Poland to the USSR?
goofy_the_dog
9 Jul 2013 #9
Yaaawn, you lot had betrayed us from principle that a politician will alway go for the mightier one than a crippled nation with six million dead and a gov in exile.
Harry
9 Jul 2013 #10
Yaaawn, you lot had betrayed us

So I take it that you don't wish to support your claim that Poland was 'sold'. All you have to do is tell us the price.

Also, given that you seem to wish to talk about Poland's post-war border changes, and to come back closer to the topic, perhaps you can tell us which world leader was first to propose Poland's western border be in its current position?
goofy_the_dog
9 Jul 2013 #11
Are an english native speaker? ;-)
If u would pay attention to history you would see that selling out has double meaning, for money or just generally.
Uk and Usa sold pl for the other, in 1943 in Tehran to acknowledge the agreement between ussr usa and uk.

I would rather give that mere piece of land for our old borders, poland a considerable amount of land wilno lwow tarnopol etc.
I suggest you educate urself a bit before you try to insult my intelligence as a pre war, ww2, post war period of polish history hobbyist.

Do you know what was the fate of polish generals that stayed in the uk after the war?
Harry
9 Jul 2013 #12
selling out has double meaning

And that is not the phrase you used. Never mind.

Uk and Usa sold pl for the other

So, if not for money, what do you claim the UK and USA sold Poland for? And why did they secure the promise of free and fair elections in Poland (the same elections which Poles didn't bother to hold for 44 years)?

I would rather give that mere piece of land for our old borders,

Poland lost land suitable only for farming (at best) and gained far better land suited for industry.

wilno

A Lithuanian city, as agree to by Poland.

lwow

Part of Ukrainian territory.

I suggest you educate urself a bit before you try to insult my intelligence as a pre war, ww2, post war period of polish history hobbyist.

I very clearly know far more about Polish history than you do, but that's no surprise given that I've had decades more than you to read, visit and learn about it.

Do you know what was the fate of polish generals that stayed in the uk after the war?

They were given citizenship, houses and jobs and their families were brought to them and given the same.

Now, given that you seem to wish to talk about Poland's post-war border changes, and to come back closer to the topic, perhaps you can tell us which world leader was first to propose Poland's western border be in its current position?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
9 Jul 2013 #13
Poland lost land suitable only for farming (at best) and gained far better land suited for industry.

It's worth pointing out that the infrastructure of the East was still utter crap in 1939 - whereas the far-superior infrastructure in the "Recovered Territories" is still intact to this day.
goofy_the_dog
9 Jul 2013 #14
Your an unbelievably ignorant person...
Heeeelllo earth to harry!
Poland lost its indepedence in 1939 and regained it after 1989..
Lwow wilno and tarnopol were polish cities the same as the land people there.
Ussr stole from us.
You allowed to happen that was the agreement of tehran and yalta.
Stalin takes poland and all the rest of the eastern block allies are guaranteed help with defeating hitler and not being attacked by soviets in berlin.

Any more stupid questions?
Ohh yeah are you asking who suggested to enslave poland for 46 yrs? Probably the bristish so called herro mister churchill or roosevelt.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
9 Jul 2013 #15
Lwow wilno and tarnopol were polish cities the same as the land people there.

Except the area itself was very ethnically mixed. It wasn't indisputably one nation, hence why Poland promised to the League of Nations that the area would be autonomous. Of course, Poland broke that promise (like many others at the time), but...
ShawnH 8 | 1,507
9 Jul 2013 #16
And why did they secure the promise of free and fair elections in Poland (the same elections which Poles didn't bother to hold for 44 years)?

A promise is only as good as the person giving it. If more Poles had of turned out for elections in 1947 (at least those that weren't being actively persecuted / executed) it may have been harder for Stalin's goons to rig the election. But by jailing 80K people and "disqualifying" vast number of candidates, Stalin's thugs were able to report an 80% victory well before the election results were tabulated.
Harry
9 Jul 2013 #17
Lwow wilno and tarnopol were polish cities the same as the land people there.

They weren't all Polish, as Delph has pointed out, and as Poland agreed.

You allowed to happen that was the agreement of tehran and yalta.

No it was not the agreement: read the texts of the agreements at both and stop lying.

Stalin takes poland and all the rest of the eastern block allies are guaranteed help with defeating hitler and not being attacked by soviets in berlin.

So in your world if Stalin hadn't been promised Poland (which he wasn't promised, c.f. elections, free and fair), the USSR would have stopped fighting the enemy which was sworn to destroy it and/or would have attacked the only nuclear power in the world in 1945. What an interesting world you live in, why don't you write the history of it sometime.

Ohh yeah are you asking who suggested to enslave poland for 46 yrs?

No, I am very specifically asking if you can tell us which world leader was first to propose Poland's western border be in its current position. The fact that you refuse to do that either demonstrates that you are too ignorant to tell us or that you do know and refuse to tell us because admitting that exposes you as a liar.
jon357 63 | 15,068
9 Jul 2013 #18
The documents regarding the catastrophe are still top secret and wwill probably for the next 40-50 years.

You're several years out-of-date. The documents have been available since you were a teenager. Hang on a minute. You still are one.

Paranoia mixed with an unhealthy dose of lies and ignorance.

Researchers from the Institute of National Remembrance and the medical examiner reported the autopsy report gen. Władysław Sikorski. - Death was due to multiple organ damage , typical for victims of traffic accidents or falls from a height - announced at a press conference . But IPN ​​does not end the investigation. Now, the Institute will check whether the disaster could have been due to sabotage.

The prosecutor Ewa Koj of the National Remembrance Institute hypotheses on the death of General . Sikorski
Video: TVN24 Attorney IPN Ewa Koj of hypotheses on the death of General . Sikorski - Death due to multiple organ injury usually occurs rapidly when measured in minutes. In the present case , the fact that the plane plunged into the water, the mechanism of death can be expected coexistence of drowning - said Tomasz Konopka .


I would rather give that mere piece of land for our old borders, poland a considerable amount of land wilno lwow tarnopol etc.

Most people who are not fantasists would prefer to keep Wrocław, Poznań, Gdańsk Sczceciń.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
9 Jul 2013 #19
Most people who are not fantasists would prefer to keep Wrocław, Poznań, Gdańsk Sczceciń.

Indeed, especially today.

The cost of reintegrating Western Ukraine would be...eyewatering. Bringing the GDR up to even almost-Western levels cost a ridiculous amount of money, and that was in a society that was pretty industralised.
goofy_the_dog
9 Jul 2013 #20
Harry if u think for a sec that the 1947 election was fair then u r deeply mistaken.
Harry if you think that everything agreen in tehran and yalta has been published u are also deeply mistaken.

Gdansk wasnt german.. It just shows ur levels of ignorance, it was a free city.
Poland was a multi culti country back then with loads of ppl living on the east that spoke a different language... So what they all head polish citizenship of e.g ukrainian nationality.

By your logic of england is not briyish anymore;-)

People i know u are foreigners and your view of polish history is quite vivid but u should educating urself .. Really.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
9 Jul 2013 #21
Gdansk wasnt german.. It just shows ur levels of ignorance, it was a free city.

It was far more German than Lwów was Polish.

Harry, remind us - wasn't the Frei Stadt Danzig something like 95% German?
goofy_the_dog
9 Jul 2013 #22
The percentage doesnt matter by ur logic London is not british anymore then ;-)
Gdansk had polish garrison, polish mail etc.. It was neither german or polish both.. Stick to the facts.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
9 Jul 2013 #23
Gdansk had polish garrison, polish mail etc.. It was neither german or polish both.. Stick to the facts.

It was as German as it got - even the official name suggests that it was German. It was a German state, just not part of Germany.

Nothing new in German constitutional theory at the time - Germany had only united most German lands in 1870, so the idea of a separate German province was nothing special. Likewise post WW2, when there were three separate German countries at one point.

The Polish garrison that you talk about was the matter of protests by the Frei Stadt, for a start. And a post office doesn't mean much - there are Swiss telephone boxes on German territory for instance.
Harry
9 Jul 2013 #24
Harry if u think for a sec that the 1947 election was fair then u r deeply mistaken.

Do try reading my posts before commenting on them. What do you think "And why did they secure the promise of free and fair elections in Poland (the same elections which Poles didn't bother to hold for 44 years)?" means?

Harry, remind us - wasn't the Frei Stadt Danzig something like 95% German?

In the city itself more like 98%. Nearly half of the 'Poles' (in reality mainly Kashubians) were in the villages outside the city but inside the free state.
goofy_the_dog
9 Jul 2013 #25
Didnt bother wtf wake up man !!
Poland had no say at all!
It was like there was no poland.

Stick to facts FREE CITY OF GDANSK
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
9 Jul 2013 #26
Stick to facts FREE CITY OF GDANSK

Well, if you want to stick to facts, the fact that the territory was 95% ethnically German, was considered German, used German as its official language and had only 5% Poles (most of whom were Kashubian) suggests that it was very much a German state.

Even the English name - "Free City of Danzig" suggests that you're very much wrong.
Jardinero 1 | 407
10 Jul 2013 #27
Most people who are not fantasists would prefer to keep Wrocław, Poznań, Gdańsk Sczceciń.

Agreed. Note Poznań was already in Poland at the outbreak of WWII.
jon357 63 | 15,068
10 Jul 2013 #28
Indeed - though the Germans never really liked that.
cms 9 | 1,271
10 Jul 2013 #29
Gdansk had polish garrison, polish mail etc.. It was neither german or polish both.. Stick to the facts.

The Czechs still have 3 hectares of Hamburg until 2029 - there used to be a post office and a notary there but I think its just wasteland now ?
Harry
10 Jul 2013 #30
I'm pretty sure that it is wasteland. I seem to remember reading about some hairbrained scheme by some Czech bloke to build something there but that was before Czech Repub joined the EU. I imagine that it'll just be left alone until 2029.

Personally I'd love to know what happened to the land that the Czechs had in Stettin.


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