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Actually, there never was any Polish-German hatred


aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
5 Apr 2010 #91
Poland can't even buy oil from Iran and build a mega airport in Warsaw.

Germany is the biggest export partner of Poland lol
Seanus 15 | 19,706
5 Apr 2010 #92
Ksysia, I know that your views wouldn't go down well in Silesia. I dare you to say 'am I in Konigshutte?' in Chorzów. Or 'is this Hindenburg? in Zabrze.
nomaderol 5 | 726
5 Apr 2010 #93
This was the World War, not Polish war.

Exactly so. But, Poland too was a country during WWII and it was also Poland war.
But, Poland didn't exist before WWI. Without understanding WWI, WWII can't be understood. For that, one should analyse the world better pre-WWI years. With the development of internal combustion engines (ICE) working with the oil, it wasn't so difficult to foresee this new technology would have been a key technology in military technology as well as the airplanes with ICE would be playing major role in deciding the new powers of the world. And, for this technology, the necessity was the oil. And, the oil was not in their lands or in their colonies of Britain, France, Germany, etc, but, it was in Ottoman lands of the day. Ottomans in Arabic lands and north Africa, Britain in some other parts of Africa, Frenches somewhere else, Spain somewhere else, etc etc, all these had kept the colonies for centuries and native folks of these lands had had been upset enough at these major powers for centuries. Realize these major powers were not touching each others for centuries. When the oil fights started these major powers (especially industrialized ones in Britain and Germany) started to make cold-wars and folks in other parts of the world started to riot against the empiral powers in their countries. Oil was not important for these poor folks as they didnt know importance of oil. Even Ottomans didnt know this as they were in decline, was technologically behind the industrialized powers. Germans and, especially Britain had done everythings to weaken their oil competitiors. This game spreaded to the world. Britain followed a policy of stirring minorities under Ottoman control as well as minorities in German control. Thats why we see Britain's involvement in supporting Saudi kingdoms who organized fights of Arabs against Ottomans, in firing the Kurdish nationalism, in firing Armenian nationalism, even in supporting radical islamists in Ottoman lands (Ottomans were not really muslims or were liberals with cosmoreligious structure.) Britain will do all these in Ottoman lands and will not do in Europe, especially in Germany? Of course, they did and they touched and stirred minority of Germany, Jews (of Poland.) Many Kurds, Arabs, Armenians will kill each others due to internal fights in Ottoman lands and there wont be internal fights in Germany due to this stir of Britain. Happened. Jews who were soft point of Germany were targetted. Britain did this to cause troubles in Germany, without knowing there would be Poland later. So, hatreds in German land started by their stir of Britain who was targetting the oil to weaken Germany. This anti-Jewish thing played roles in local administration and policies in Germany and Poland later. At the end of WWI, the winner Britain won the oil lands finally or made these lands as their colonies by using puppet Arab kingdoms of them. Loser Germany of WWI were still busy with interior fights and politic elections were based on nationalism and religion and this spreaded to Poland lands naturally. In the mean time, new arising powers, USA describing themselves by highlighting capitalism to be power and the Soviets (initiated by intellectual Jews of Europe to protect themselves against the racism) changed the rules of games. Hard worker Germans who were angry at losing WWI developed again and became power again and wanted to take the revenge of WWI. But, idiot German administrations again made a mistake and falled into the same stirring Jews game of Britain (as well as Vatican, as this time, there was godless communism and the church put their noses into world politics more.) Poland, a young kid country of the day, were partially controlled by Germans, partially by Britain and partially by Soviets (due to Jews who wanted to protect themselves against racism as any minority want as socialism was anti-racist at the beginning) and ordinary folks of Poland were victims of big horses fighting each others.

If politicians and religion centers dont put their fingers into relations of ordinary folks, there is no hatred among ordinary folks and they dont kill each others. Ordinary folks think locally. Politicans and religious centers think globally. So, Hitler is not a German product only, he is a product of oil, Britain, religion centers of Europe as well. Again, all killings were started because of oil since last century. Now, this is being replaced by the gas as heating of world turned to gas heating. This is shaping relations in major powers. This time, Turkic countries are on target as their lands are major sources of natural gas. It will be interesting as Israel (mostly under control of Ashkenazi Jews originally Turkic) are siding with Turkic countries as Jews are not trusting Christians, Russians, Europe and Muslims anymore. To me, previous World Wars were not real world wars as China and Turkic countries were not really involved. This economy crisis is a sign of coming new world war, and this will be a real world war unlike previous ones as the weapons are really destructive now, can destroy the earth in a week only.

Seanus, after all, Britain has no finger in all these? We, here in the most stirred region of the world since last century, know their stirs of Britain very well. Nowadays, with USA, Britain have gained hatreds of ordinary folks, especially Arabs in the region. Difficult days started for Britain and their company USA. USA can change their policy easily as it is a cosmopolitic places with blacks, etc. But, Britain? It will be difficult.. My suggestion to Britain is to support socialism, maybe, a new kind of socialism as soon as possible cause they are weakining and any weak community naturally support socialism.
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
5 Apr 2010 #94
Seanus, in Silesia up until the 70s you wouldn't get served in shops if you spoke Polish. You had to pretend it was half-broken German.

Problem with Śląsk is bigger, it's a tri cultural region. Czechs influenced it greatly and people are still connected to their Czech families. So Germans could just go and visit their Polish and Czechian families. If they weren't so freaked out.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
5 Apr 2010 #95
Nomad, I'm not talking macropolitics here, I'm talking about the impact and aftermath of German policy in Poland back in WWII.

Ksysia, true enough but German isn't that popular here. My wife's mum is a native speaker of Polish and German and always gets strange looks when she speaks German here. It's not a comfortable trilateral region ;)
nomaderol 5 | 726
5 Apr 2010 #96
Oil is a macropolitic or micropolitic? Your car needs oil.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
5 Apr 2010 #97
Ksysia, true enough but German isn't that popular here.

Well, most of the original Silesians are now in Germany...whereas most of today Silesians are former eastern Poles...no wonder.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
5 Apr 2010 #98
I don't have a car but I have books which show Polish-German hatred. Care to read them? Not much mention of oil in the indices/appendices ;)
nomaderol 5 | 726
5 Apr 2010 #99
Written by Britain.. (hide oil)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
5 Apr 2010 #100
Well, most of the original Silesians are now in Germany...whereas most of today Silesians are former eastern Poles...

If you mean Lower Silesians then yeah, if you mean Silesians as in Silesia then no, most of them are natives.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
5 Apr 2010 #101
Nomad, you have access to the internet. I suggest you read up on the causes of hatred and apply them to the topic at hand.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
5 Apr 2010 #102
Actually, there never was any Polish-German hatred

Interesting.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
5 Apr 2010 #103
If you mean Lower Silesians then yeah, if you mean Silesians as in Silesia then no, most of them are natives.

Well then.... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia
Seanies impression is even more curios!

...Most inhabitants of Silesia today speak the national languages of their respective countries (Polish, Czech, German), although there is a recognized Silesian language, considered by some to be a dialect of Polish, with about 60,000 declared speakers in Upper Silesia.

Seanus 15 | 19,706
5 Apr 2010 #104
Ksysia, you've got it the wrong way round. Yes, I'm foreign but I see that many Poles really know little about Silesian life and history. Pieprzą głupoty!

Speaking German was not seen too favourably in the 1970's and before for quite some time. Have you ever been called a German pig? Before my wife's mum learned to speak Polish, she was called this as a kid for speaking German. She was born in 1952 so I trust you can do the arithmetic here.

Silesia has a different dynamic and, remember this, I have lived here for over 5 years and have listened to many who lived it back then. There was hatred, sorry!

What impression, BB?
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
5 Apr 2010 #105
Interesting.

not interesting, just contradictory;)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
5 Apr 2010 #106
What impression, BB?

Look above to my quote....Silesians speak officially polish, czech and german....so your impressons of german being hated seem abit curios....

But what do I know....as far as I know most german silesians left for Germany in two waves, first after WWII and then during another wave in the 70s/80s....
Seanus 15 | 19,706
5 Apr 2010 #107
What nonsense, BB! Are you talking about w urzedach/in administrative offices? Or do you feel that most can speak those 3 languages here? If so, you are in error. Silesian dialect is strong but, even then, only in parts. Not here in Gliwice, for example. I suggest you talk to frd as he will back me up on all of the above.

Do you want the phone number of my wife's mother? ;) ;) She speaks German fluently and has lived here all her life. Have you? She will give you countless tales.

Yes, exactly, they left. She didn't and hasn't.
DariuszTelka 5 | 193
5 Apr 2010 #108
If you mean Lower Silesians then yeah, if you mean Silesians as in Silesia then no, most of them are natives.

My family comes from Silesia, and some of them are really patriotic about it. (Almost on the border of we are not poles, but silesians). If you look at the polish tv networks, you will find only two "local" TV stations available, that are available for me at least on my dish, TV Silesia and TV Warszawa...Warszawa is obvious, since it's the captial and caters to millions of poles..but I haven't seen any TV Opole or TV Malapolska, only TV Silesia, and they crank out that silesian patriotism all the time with music, programs and food-shows. And everytime you can sms something, it includes german numbers aswell. My mother is extremely sceptical to people outside of Silesia, especially people from Warszawa, and the ukranians. Where she get's this from, I don't really know, but it comes out right away, without any pause.

My Wife comes from Zgozelec, but her whole family is originally from the eastern part of Poland and has Bielorussian background and have names like Jakimowicz and Fizycz. They moved westward after the borders were moved in 1945, and settled in the "new" Polish territory in Lower Silesia, which is higher on the map..so why "lower"? They have NO german links whatsover, even though she can throw a stone over the river from her familys house and make it land on german territory. We also don't look alike at all (good thing since we got married), she's super-pale with dark eyes and hair, while I easily tan and have blondish hair and green eyes. But we both come from "Silesia"...but as I explained, her family decends from the old eastern part, where her traits were possibly more common. (Anybody here from those areas want to elaborate on that..?)

I didn't even know this "hate" existed until I grew up a bit and started reading about it and started travelling around in Poland and Germany. But I have to say I experienced some double standards from both poles and germans when I joined the patriotic movement here in Norway and got to meet some patriots on both sides of the Silesian border. The germans had bands like Landser who had lyrics like "ich diese scheissvolk hasse", and how they ran over our country in 18 days, but then they ordered and printed all their clothes and regalia from Polish printer shops and manufacturers, because it was illegal in Germany...double standard anyone? And then I met Polish patriots who had polish tattoos, but wanted to put up signs written in german at football games (at Ruch Chorzow, which I support). I have to admit, people don't really seem to know where the line is drawn. For me it's easy, I come from Silesia, which is in Poland, ergo I'm Polish. Not German. Maybe my great grandparents were, but that time has passed and I don't walk around going; I'm Polish, but with German heritage. The german patriots "accepted" me since I came from Silesia and actually used this as an "excuse" every time they wanted to introduce me to someone and I said my name was Dariusz.."it's ok, he's really german, he's from Silesia"....eh. Well, not really. That all happened over 10 years ago, but I guess things are the same today..

Anyways, anybody else have some hands on experience with this Polish/German Silesian canundrum that seems to get people so worked up? For me it was never a big thing since I grew up in Norway and we always are greeted with smiles wherever we go, nobody hates us. Except Greenpeace.

Dariusz
nott 3 | 594
8 Jun 2010 #109
Anyways, anybody else have some hands on experience with this Polish/German Silesian canundrum that seems to get people so worked up?

that would need another forum, Darek :) Silesia has definitely the most 'interesting' history of all Polish regions, and especially in the last century. Even the word 'Polish' in the previous sentence might seriously raise some brows here, and we might argue happily till Christmas. Silesia is Silesia, and seems all the neighbouring countries are there just to entertain Silesians and keep them in their healthy uncertainty who they really are.

Your observations seem correct, but it's only a spoonful out of the Silesian eintopf.

I'd love to rant on this topic, but possibly not today.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
8 Jun 2010 #110
My family were Silesians, lived there since ages, till the war...I'm born in Berlin...:)
nott 3 | 594
8 Jun 2010 #111
Silesians... Polish Silesians, German Silesians, Silesians Silesians? :)

BTW, that remark about 'the second wave of German migration from Silesia in 70/80ies' is a bit of misnomer, Boy :) There were few Germans left in Silesia after the war, mostly due to '3 days of freedom' granted to the Soviet troops who crossed the pre-war Polish-German border. Pillage, raping, murder, raping, pillage, looting, raping murder. A massive difference to what Silesians experienced during the war, when they were relatively cosy.

Cosy, except the draft, destination Ost Front. Because Silesia was incorporated into Germany, and all Silesians presented with Volskliste class 3. And this was at the roots of the late migration. Whoever felt like 'choosing freedom', digged up his grandfather's Wehrmacht papers and was granted German citizenship automatically. Then just a single year in the immigration camp, language classes, and a new German is born.

Have to finish for now, see ya.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
8 Jun 2010 #112
There were few Germans left in Silesia after the war

Well, that seems to be a misconception.
Sure it wasn't very popular after the war but there seemed to be many more Germans left than previously thought.

Only Germans were drafted into the Wehrmacht (till nearly the end of the war as they grabbed everybody), so Volksliste I or II mainly...
All those Silesians who were able to digg out "grandpa's Wehrmacht papers" had every right to german citizenship!

And that were alot!

PS: Another misconception seems to be that Poles talk about the polish Silesia when they say "Silesia", but we mean mostly the german Silesia where the overwhelming majority had been German for centuries and who voted to stay in Germany after WWI. Germans fair and square!

...
Not the whole population of the formerly German Silesia was expelled after the war. Over 1 milion Silesians who considered themselves Poles or were treated as such by the authorities due to their language and customs were allowed to stay after they were verified as Poles in a special verification process. It involved declaring Polish nationality and an oath of allegiance to the Polish nation.[36]

In the official Polish census, 153,000 people declared German nationality, though up to 500,000 or more may be of German ancestry

And that are numbers AFTER the war, the flight, the expellation and the emigration waves...
nott 3 | 594
9 Jun 2010 #113
nott: There were few Germans left in Silesia after the war

Well, that seems to be a misconception.

No, this is a point of view. :)

Sure it wasn't very popular after the war but there seemed to be many more Germans left than previously thought.

Granted. My post was a simplification, and I don't deny it. Some of them survived as long as 1990ies and suddenly we had an official German minority. In the Opole area there are places with dual-language road-signs. At least there were last time I checked.

Only Germans were drafted into the Wehrmacht (till nearly the end of the war as they grabbed everybody), so Volksliste I or II mainly...

Now here our versions would differ, although I can't back mine with hard scientific evidence, but anecdotal data only. Namely, I have met people whose grandpas were drafted and sent to defend the civilisation. Families with a strong Polish-Silesian identity.

All those Silesians who were able to digg out "grandpa's Wehrmacht papers" had every right to german citizenship!

And that were alot!

Quite. And they were happy to exploit this German foible. My experience is of families which had a proud tradition of a grandgrandpa in Silesian insurrections, and a useful history of a grandpa in Wehrmacht. Which did not mean that during the 20 years of the Polish independence they changed their allegiance so dramatically. They kept it unchanged until the migration, and sometimes even longer. If longer then in terms of sentiment, rather, than actual loyalty.

PS: Another misconception seems to be that Poles talk about the polish Silesia when they say "Silesia", but we mean mostly the german Silesia where the overwhelming majority had been German for centuries and who voted to stay in Germany after WWI. Germans fair and square!

As I said, till Christmas :) Then we will reconcile.

Uff. Silesia was first (in the historical span) Celtic, then there were Wandals, then Slavs, who melted into Poles. This lasted until Poland lost its grip on Silesia, with, ehem, Czechia (Bohemia) benefiting. Silesia was predominantly under Czech influence or allegiance, for about 600 years, but the local princes were mostly from the 100% Polish Piast dynasty, and the plebs was Polish. Uncomfortable fact is, that they readily adopted German culture and language, them impeccable Polish princes... so even the German speaking local Piast looked towards Cracow, rather, than to the west. Quite often. Somehow inevitably, the whole area, through Czekia, become almost totally Germanized.

With the exception of the Upper Silesia, Opole (Oppeln), Raciborz (Rattberg?), and Beskid Slaski, which remained a border zone, with a strong Polish majority. And this was what I was speaking of. My Silesia. Which rebelled, successfully (3rd insurrection) against the partial verdict of the Western plebiscite commission deciding that most of the Upper Silesia should belong to Germany.

My Silesia ended just between Zabrze (Hindengurg?)and Gliwice (Gleiwitz), and that's why Darek can say that he never heard Silesian dialect in Gliwice. He heard Wolynian drawl. Now, everybody in Gliwice claims his grandpa had a house in Lwów, high street, with shops.

...
(...)
In the official Polish census, 153,000 people declared German nationality, though up to 500,000 or more may be of German ancestry

Pfff, I'd say more. Poles are a nation of mongrels. With Germans it helped that the western border was actually the most quiet throughout the history. Germans migrated to Poland over ages, often adopting Polish culture quite easily.
POLENGGGs 2 | 150
9 Jun 2010 #114
Dariusz> LOL, niqqa suddenly realizin the heat on his Polish a$$. hahahaha, SLĄSK ain't no Oslo, but now this niqqa saying 'we norwegians' , betta go home for ur owns sake Osloeman

nott> "100% Piast dynasty, etc etc" , where you there, you seen this? because you know , we reckon there once existed a Bolesław Chrobry - the German's say he was Bosleib der Kuehne , a Viking with a fortress. Soooo, as you can see it just a matter which textbook you read.

Nomaderol> you gettin carried away there niqqa, and btw. what this im reading you're so anti british and I hear you a British?

About the Wehrmacht; yes they actually acted like respectable army-men (remember , they didnt want to fuqq this mission up and make the mass exportation of Polish folk as peaceful and whatnot..... until they assses got into about the old mid Galicia part and that when the true colors started flowing from them Indian Symbol worshippers. - or maybe it just that by that distance their opium derivative sedative type drugs just stopped workin

Hahaha, peaceful co-existance, intermingling ???
From the peple I have had the pleasure speakin to, it was like a German sitting on the Ubahn next to a Moslem religious woman - thats as far as co-existance.

Intermingling????? you mean like inter-marrying ? Never happened, and if it did both people usually escaped to some other town or faraway village and adopted the identity they chose.

of course there where shantytowns in small villages and the countryside, full of poor as sh!t (and I mean P00R) Jews, Poles, Russians ... the Germans rather were more industrious and didnt let themselves go there unless they where some kinda half German.

so yeah, Poles are Poles, and the rare mixed ones are usually offspring from Mongol soldier adventures (aka Soviet soldier on soe poor polish maid kinda thing) , there are some Jew-Pole creatures living in the territory of Poland but no one pays attention to that, unless they become some pain in the ass politician and the retards who read german books and listen to russian radio start with their Anti-Jew crap.

as for German-Pole mixed creatures, as the liberators came along, the locals got drunk on that funny stuff that they gave those soldiers and bashed the sh!t out of any Pole claiming to be German (and anyway most them freaks where already in West corner of the Reich as far as their brains went, and their bodies soon followed, more than often they became the righteous aryans that they wanted to be a made for good fertilizer for Silesian soil.

oh. did I mention the ones that where caught where put in 'camps' , and it was a pretty hard living for them, like the type of living where you'd be having dreams of being a black slave in the West Indies .

Conclusion; a German in Śląsk these days goin on a field trip must be pretty suicidal, especially if he thinkin like this Ksysia person of Tri-nation interminglin, n all . but then again, THere IS some who go to Prague, get high on some funny stuff and head north lookin for the swampmonster ; and guess what they is findin that swamp monster all the time, that why the Germans set up this Oppeln ting, in case some of their youth be gettin wrong directions from schemin gypsies who also have beef with the germans , so no doubt they want them to end up in hell.

damn I just realized, we really have a bad rep. but like the sayin goes a niqqa gotta live, so it's jsut normal he don't want to be a 4th grade citizen ; like in the Wilno area with only kinda prospects is to go with the Russian to his country.

I mean, even the Czechs caught on after being sodomised for so long by the German ;

but again n again, some people just neva learn, and as everywhere the same in Śląsk there is some seriously funny niqqas ; thinkin that being German is a matter of conversion (like that weirdo dude who converted to Judaism after being some kinda racist hooligan)

The lesson to all aliens in Poland; the Poles dont like Others, and the German is as much hated as the Russian, and the Jews; we just don't ride with them, we ignore them.

Poland developed psycho-cognitive genetical traits after a long period of existance next to the puddle which we call the Baltic, believe me; the real neighbours kno wot we niqqas is about,

as for the Polish niqqas living in Britain-don't be fooled, you might think it a bunch of fools, but I wish you not come across a real schemin niqqa , the ones residin in Germany - they the fools thinking that there gonna be more cashed up and buying things in Poland; guess what, news travels fast, none of the niqqas in Polish territory will be buying nothing from some funny ar$e clowns like yall so forget your investment plans, oh and viel vergnuegen being in enemy territory.

and as for Russia and our Polish niqqas livin there, well you see how the russian be, shootin and beating anything that says Polish , the rest made their mark choppin down trees in East Russia; even one of them got out and trekked across to the USA ; he was seriously ill-minded that one, his name was Kaczynski, that right.

The Son of Sam also all Polish heritage, even though he thinkin being Jewish is cool.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
9 Jun 2010 #115
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia#Demographics

Silesia has been inhabited from time immemorial by people of multiple ethnic groups. Germanic tribes were first recorded within Silesia in the 1st century. Slavic peoples arrived in this territory around the 6th century.

In the Middle Ages, Silesia was divided among many independent duchies ruled by various Silesian dukes of the Piast dynasty.
During this time, cultural and ethnic German influence increased due to immigrants from the German-speaking components of the Holy Roman Empire. Between the years 1289-1292 Bohemian king Wenceslaus II became suzerain of some Upper Silesian duchies.
Silesia subsequently became a possession of the Bohemian crown under the Holy Roman Empire in the 14th century, and passed with that crown to the Habsburg Monarchy of Austria in 1526.
The Duchy of Crossen was inherited by Margraviate of Brandenburg in 1476 and, with the renunciation by King Ferdinand I and estates of Bohemia in 1538, it became an integral part of Brandenburg.

In 1905, a census showed that 75% of the population were Germans and 25% Poles.

Predominantly german since 2000 years. Whose Silesia?
Torq 32 | 2,897
9 Jun 2010 #116
In 1905, a census showed that 75% of the population were Germans and 25% Poles.

In 1905 - mostly German.

Whose Silesia?

In 2010 - overwhelmingly Polish (8.6 million Poles to 139 thousand Germans in Lower,
Upper and Opole Silesia - 98.4% Poles, 1.6% Germans).

End of.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
9 Jun 2010 #117
Yeah...end of 2000 years of co-existence..it needed the polish state to make it ethnic clean for Poles alone. End of a rich history! :(
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 Jun 2010 #118
Actually the rich history ended when Germans invaded Poland stealing its lands, Germans made sure the co-existence would never pick up like it did in 1939.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
9 Jun 2010 #119
Actually the rich history ended when Germans invaded Poland stealing its lands,

Land it got only from the victors of WWI to punish Germany with the treaty of Versailles.
(They did the same to your chum Hungary btw)
This treaty spawned Hitler, WWII, mass destruction - but at least the Poles got what they wanted, right? Right!

But with the german Silesians your football team would had to show some good players at least! ;)
Torq 32 | 2,897
9 Jun 2010 #120
Yeah...end of 2000 years of co-existence..it needed the polish state to make it ethnic clean for Poles alone. End of a rich history! :(

As far as I know Poles are free to settle in Germany and vice-versa and there is
a co-operation between border regions, so maybe there is a chance to rebuild
what was destroyed as a result of WW2 mostly.

The problem is that Germans are not only not willing to settle in Poland, they are
even fleeing the Eastern regions of Germany itself, so at the moment it's not our
fault that there isn't too much co-existence of Polish and German populations.
As far as I'm concerned, Germans are welcome to settle and work in Poland.


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