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Zawadynski - herb. Rawicz / Rawa and herb. Dolega



thenewsreader 1 | 5    
4 Apr 2015  #1

Hello. My name is Jozef Kawasinski and I live in Kazakhstan. My ancestors are Polish.

Great grandfather name was Zawadynski and had herb. Rawicz.
Herb Dołęga is also in the genealogical tree but I don't know who's exactly. I can post here my whole genealogical tree.

I don't know who to contact, how to search more info, what to do. Any suggestions, appreciated. Thanks.


Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
4 Apr 2015  #2

Biuro Heraldyki i Genealogii SARMATA
+48 48 674 23 51 or cell: +48 603 633 905
Director: Andrzej Zygmunt Rola-Stężycki

Good luck!
OP thenewsreader 1 | 5    
5 Apr 2015  #3

Thank you, how can I contact him? I don't speak Polish, only English. any info on this subject guys ? Anyone who has more info about Rawicz / Rawa ? or has Rawa coat of arms ?
Looker - | 939    
7 Apr 2015  #4

Try to write in English via email, this is the address I've found to the SARMATA office: sarmata@sarmata.com.pl
Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
8 May 2015  #5

RAWA (aka RAWICZ): A rather fantastic medieval legend surrounds the Rawa coat of arms. It goes back to a deceased English king's son, whose sister had inherited the royal treasure, so he had her thrown into the cave of a ferocious bear. But the virgin's ardent prayers tamed the savage beast, and she actually rode to the castle on its back. The brother was so startled by that unusual spectacle that he repented, returned her treasure and begged her forgiveness. The Rawa coat of arms, which graphically depicts that episode, is shared by the gentry lines of 737 variously surnamed and mostly unrelated Polish noble families ranging across the alphabet from Amszyński to Żwan.

Dołęga - https://polishforums.com/genealogy/poland-szczepanski-warsaw-43020/
rawicz    
9 Jun 2015  #6

[Moved from]: Zawadinsky family tree, Rawicz descendants from Poland

Hello. I am searching for Zawadinsky family members, or (herb) Rawicz descendants that are particularly connected with Zawadinsky family... from Poland.

Contact me
Looker - | 939    
9 Jun 2015  #7

Zawadinsky surname was probably misspeled in the past - Polish name could be Zawadzinski or more likely Zawadziński. However you mentioned about the Rawicz coat of arms - I'm not an expert, but I don't see such name there - the nearest to it seems to be Zawadowski and Zawada.
rawicz    
9 Jun 2015  #8

Zawadynski * the correct name. My grand grand grand father was Zawadynski, I am very sure he was of Rawicz COA (I have family tree certificate)
Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
10 Jun 2015  #9

Zawadinsky

According to Tadeusz Gajl's authoritative armorial, the noble bearers of the Zawadyński surname were entitled to use the Poraj coat of arms, not Rawicz. It was the noble Zawadowskis who belonged to the Rawicz clan.

You say you have a Family Tree Certificate, issued by whom? There are all kinds of heraldry mills online which will provide coats of arms to nearly every comer so as not to lose a customer. And they offer mugs, T-shirts, plaques and other gadgets with the family crest.
rawicz    
10 Jun 2015  #10

The certificate has this at the end of it : i59.tinypic.com/4gjiiq.jpg
Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
10 Jun 2015  #11

That is the Dąbrowa coat of arms which has got nothing to do with the noble Zawadyńskis who used the Poraj heraldic device:

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poraj_%28herb_szlachecki%29
rawicz    
11 Jun 2015  #12

You don't understand, that is only at the end of the certificate for an unknown reason. My grand grand grand father has This : H. Rawicz after his name in the certificate.

I saw on wikipedia, interesting. However, I wonder why no one said anything about Poraj coat of arms in my family while Rawicz was in the certificate. Any ideas ? You seem to know more about polish heraldy, I dont know who to ask why my grand grand grand father has H. Rawicz in the certificate.
Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
11 Jun 2015  #13

Possibly someone led your ancestor astray. Or perhaps he himself "purchased" the certificate to prove his noble ancestry. So many things could have happened. For instance, your ancestor may have wanted to check whether a coa went with his name. He told someone with an armorial that his name was Zawadyński, the person looked down the list and mistakenly (not paying attention, poor eyesight?) gave the Rawicz coa which went with Zawadowski

Nowadays there are online heraldry mills online which come up with a coa for nearly everyone.
Check out: pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rawicz_%28herb_szlachecki%29
It lists the Zawodowski surname. My armorial spells it Zawadowski. Which is right? Maybe both. Polish heraldry is a confusing area and many things got misspelt over generations of manual recopying.
rawicz    
11 Jun 2015  #14

I see. How can I find out if I am Rawicz descendant for true ? maybe a blood test ? lol. Should I contact mr Tadeusz himself or maybe just try and find out how was the certificate made ? btw. it was recently made, and I see also a dolega COA in some ramification of the fam tree

Saying that my ancestor lied or something brings and insult to me. He was a noble man that lived in castle Zawada for a period. :)
jon357 67 | 12,739    
11 Jun 2015  #15

Be careful @rawicz. Pol3 does know what he's talking about in these matters - in fact he seems to be an expert, and family legends are notoriously prone to romanticising, embellishment and fantasy. Especially when there's a claim of aristocratic forebears and no proof.
Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
11 Jun 2015  #16

Absolutely no insult was intended. I only wondered what the reason for the incongruity might have been. Worth mentioning is the fact that Polish heraldry is more of a whimsical art than an exact science, closer to astrology and alchemy than to astronomy and chemistry. It is based on lore and legend which have been additionally elaborated and embellished over the centuries. Heraldic experts themselves do not always agree on the design and colour scheme of individual coats of arms nor as to which families belonged to which noble clan. Moreover, Old Poland's lack of Royal Office of Heraldry gave rise to false counts and others illegitimately claiming noble status. The post-World War I Polish Constitution of 1921 abolished the nobility as a legally recognised social class and did away with aristocratic titles. Although noble ancestry no longer ensures any titles or privileges, many tradition-minded families, which can legitimately claim their ancestors' gentry membership, continue to cultivate their heritage and fondly display their coats of arms on signet rings, plaques, paintings, stationery, tombstones, etc.
rawicz    
11 Jun 2015  #17

I see. So whom am I to ask now about the truth regarding the certificate / COA ?
Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
11 Jun 2015  #18

You would have to engage a geneaologist specialisng in heraldry to track the thing down. Email me and I'll send you a list of contacts.
OP thenewsreader 1 | 5    
2 Apr 2016  #19

Merged: herb. Rawicz / Rawa

Hello, my ancestor had the coat of arms Rawicz / Rawa.

How can I find out if he was a true bearer of Rawicz / Rawa or it was a bought / learned coat of arms ?

Thanks
Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
2 Apr 2016  #20

it was a bought

Sarmata may be abel to help you.
OP thenewsreader 1 | 5    
2 Apr 2016  #21

Hello. How do you know it was a bought ? And where is Sarmata ? tx
Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
4 Apr 2016  #22

Sarmata

Biuro Heraldyki i Genealogii SARMATA
instytut@instytut-genealogii.com.pl

It's based in the town of Odrzywół some distance SW of Warsaw. If you're fluent in Polish you can ring them at: +48 48 674 2351. Otherwise email.
OP thenewsreader 1 | 5    
11 Aug 2016  #23

Merged: Question regarding Poraj / Rawicz coat of arms and their relationship with some medieval kings

My polish ancestor is named Zawadynski. In all the family documents I see only Rawicz herb. but Zawadynski family has Poraj coat of arms, regarding wikipedia.

How is this possible ? any theories ? Am I poraj or rawicz descendant ?

Another question :

Regarding wikipedia, Rawicz descendants descend from king Canute the Great and Poraj descendants descend from Henry the Fowler.

How accurate are these 2 statements ?
Atch 9 | 1,707    
12 Aug 2016  #24

Canute didn't have any veriable descendants. He had four children,three sons and a daughter. One of the sons died young, another never married and had no known children, and the third son is believed to have had only one illegitimate son who disappears from records without any known issue. The daughter married and had one daughter who became a nun so no issue either, at least if she had, she certainly wasn't admitting it!

The nearest relationship I can think of is that Canute the Great is said to have been the grandfather of Mieszko I of Poland.

As for Henry the Fowler, I haven't a clue but he had several children and granchildren. Those Royal lines are fairly well documented.

You need to take everything on Wikipedia with not just a grain of salt, but an entire salt cellar if not salt mine! The accuracy of the information there depends on who wrote the article and some of the 'facts' on there are very poorly researched. Also be careful with genealogical resources as amateur genealogists often publish incorrect family trees and unverified information, in good faith, thinking they're accurate.

grandfather

Woops! I meant grandson, see how easily it happens!
Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
12 Aug 2016  #25

The noble Zawadyńskis belonged to the Poraj clan and used their coat fo arss.
The Zawadowskis held membership of the Rawicz or Rawa clan and stamped
theri documents and possessions with that heradlic device. It appears that somewhere down the line someone mistook Zawadowski for Zawadyński, and that could have been what caused the confusion.
OP thenewsreader 1 | 5    
13 Nov 2016  #26

Merged: Hello, regarding Rawa / Rawicz / Dolega coat of Arms

Hello, I have SOME ancestors from Poland.

They have the coat of arms Rawa / Rawicz and Dolega.

Anyone can tell me anymore info about this coat of arms ?

Thank you so much

Alexander H.


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