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Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians?


classic34    
3 Oct 2018  #361
I don't have precise info what happened afterwards to the Spali when they were defeated by the Goths. I don't have any evidence that they moved westward to Europe.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
3 Oct 2018  #362
Hmm...wiki says the "Spali" were more like a caste of royal Scythians......and that they ruled the Slavs...not that they were pre-Slavs.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spali

(A time machine would be nice...this far back history is fascinating)
Crow 146 | 7,594    
3 Oct 2018  #363
Spali, Sporoi and Spartans are all deviations of Sarmatian (Serbian- in original, in Lusatia `Syarbi` on Balkan `Srbi` in Poland `Szczerbi`) name, same as Swabi and many other names. Tadeusz Sulimirski came to conclusion, taking in account various sources that Spali absolutely were Sarmatians and precisely were a branch of the Roxolani. Francis Dvornik believed that the Sporoi mentioned by Procopius (500-560) was old name for Antes and Sclaveni and that they actually were the Spali mentioned by Jordanes (fl. 551) and Spalei mentioned by Pliny. So analyzes again confirmed direct link between Slavs and Sarmatians, that behind name of Sarmatians were Slavs.
Crow 146 | 7,594    
3 Oct 2018  #365
I know
Classic34    
3 Oct 2018  #366
Sulimirski reckons Spali to be represented by Sarmatian archaeology.

I have even heard of ``Royal Sarmatians'' for these people or ``Basileans''

Any how the Sauromatai had long before assimilated Royal Scyths. Iazyges descended from both the Sauromatai and Royal Scyths.

Maybe Spali also? Sauromatian culture and archaeology was more Scythian than the type of the Roxolanians or Alanorsi.
Crow 146 | 7,594    
3 Oct 2018  #367
Any how the Sauromatai had long before assimilated Royal Scyths.

Sarmats didn`t assimilate Scythians. Scythians themselves were Sarmatians but nomadic branch.

Do you even have proper picture of ancient Europe?

Let`s go some 12.000 years in past (by Czech Jandacek we could even go back for more then 40.000 years in past and there we would find first Sarmats- by analyzes of linguistic and age of Slavic languages). But its still in sphere of speculation so we would focus to what we know for certainty and that is last glaciation, last Ice Age.

So, Ice Age retreated and Sarmatrians started to slowly migrate from two of their Ice Age refugiums- from Balkan and from Crimea. They moved along great rivers and net of rivers in connection to them. That is how they populated or better to say re-populated Europe after Ice Age finished.

With time some remain to function as nomadic and hunter-gatherers, while some became sedentary. Some developed wast cities and urbanized, some remained purely rural villagers, while some were on the level of savages. That is picture of ancient Sarmatian (!) Europe in moment when first Greeks appeared on the scene and it was still so when Romans appeared. Very similar to picture of American indians when first Europeans appeared.
Classic34    
3 Oct 2018  #368
Crow,

Are you referring to the trypillian culture and Corded Ware - Yamnaya culture of pre-historic times?
Tacitus 1 | 765    
3 Oct 2018  #369
@Crow

Start from coinage. [...] Its not Roman invention and many connects coinage and use of money with Romans. Actually, prior to Roman appearance on historical scene. Prior to Greek existence, too.

No historian would ever claim that coins were a Roman or Greek invention. The oldest coins found so far are from 2600 BC. Greek and Romans are in so far noteworthy, because both produced coins in larger quantities and better qualities than before. However I am still waiting for a significant achievement that can be attributed to the Sarmatians.
Crow 146 | 7,594    
3 Oct 2018  #370
But see, coinage, money, as well as construction of roads and bridges is regularly attributed to Greeks and Romans. But, they acquired that all from Sarmats. Just for the record, to little bit tackle those myths. What Greeks and Romans did is to destroy Sarmatian urban centers and steal whatever they could. Sure, with time, after previously destroyed real inventors, Greeks and Romans additionally upgraded knowledge. This truth had to be said.

Now, SOLSTICE and knowledge of agriculture. That was achievement equal to the industrial revolution. Then knowladge of BUILDING MEGALITHIC STRUCTURES, such were Dacian temples in Sarmisegetusa and Stonehenge built by populace of Sorviodunum.

s

Sarmatian (ie Serbian/ie Slavic) Dacian temples in Sarmisegetusa

s

Stonehenge of Sorviodunum

What about system of `mathematics` and `calculations` needed to build these structures? Such a knowledge precedes and even conditioning knowledge of later Greek, Roman and even Arabic mathematics. What about stone `architectural achievements` in urban Etruria (ie Rasena), Thracia, Dacia, Troia, Sparta? How much was stolen by Greeks and Romans and later continued and promoted as their own? What about beautiful `wooden architectural achievements`?

What about BUDDHISM ? Buddha was white and Scythian, meaning Sarmatian. Buddhism then inspired HINDUISM. Those are entire religious concepts inspired by Sarmatians, while Sarmats already had their own deities and pantheon. Can we even count religious systems discovered by spirit and mind of Sarmatians?

What about best `cavalry military knee to knee doctrine` in the world ever which ultimately was remembered as WINGED CAVALRY that was preserved among Serbians on Balkan, in old Sarmatian European core, and then transferred to Poles? USA `wild west` cavalry was also formed after this cavalry tradition.

So we have unquestionable insight into the great and marvelous achievements of ancient Sarmatians (ie Slavs) and every credit to them will be returned to them and named properly- as Sarmatian (ie Slavic) contribution. Great injustice and insult to ancestors will be corrected.

That Israely PM Netanyahu told to Serbian PM Vucic (now President) >>> Injustice will be corrected >>>

>>>> youtube.com/watch?v=PhxmLuXYNG4

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Israely PM Netanyahu: ``The friendship between the Jewish and Serbian peoples goes back to thousands of years, to the time of the Roman Republic (500 BC)``.
Tacitus 1 | 765    
3 Oct 2018  #371
But, they acquired that all from Sarmats.

Do you have any evidence for this, any sources preferably by modern historians?

You know Crow, I understand that you really want to believe all of this, but historical evidence simply do not support your claims. A quick Google search can debunk what you are writing herr. Most of the ruins you are refering to where build A.D., several centuries after the Greeks have build their architectural marvels. Greek coins are centuries older than Sarmatian history. And so on.
Crow 146 | 7,594    
3 Oct 2018  #372
Evidences? Just go google on evidences. Net is full of them

Far better evidences then you can offer as opposition. What would you say? How are Poles Iranians? That Poles are Turkic people? Semites?

Please.
G (undercover)    
3 Oct 2018  #373
They had to. For that there was a vested interest of the Roman Empire in Germania.

That's true of course in case of tribes that lived close to their but Romans didn't have much clue what was going on along the Vistula and even less so beyond that territory.

Iranians

Yes. The (mostly) nomadic horsemen that dominated the steppe in those times, Scythians, Sarmatians etc. were Iranian.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
3 Oct 2018  #374
That's true of course in case of tribes that lived close to their but Romans didn't have much clue what was going on along the Vistula

That's the long believed misconception...coming from the same sources who said everything right of the Limes had been only swamps and huts.

Ptolemy used alot of sources for his atlas.

he drew on Roman traders' travel itineraries, analyzed seafarers' notes and consulted maps used by Roman legions operating to the north....

Like this:

a Roman knight traveled from Carnuntum, a legion camp near Vienna, to the Baltic Sea coast to trade in amber.

Or this:

...We were able to locate 11 settlements along the highway that started at Moers on the Rhine and reached as far as the Sambia peninsula

Or this:

....Researchers believe Ptolemy's map now allows them to trace the path followed by amber traders from the Vienna area up to Gdansk Bay as well....

And this:

...It was primarily surveyors with the Roman army, which appears to have advanced as far as the Vistula River, ....

The cracking of the "Ptolemy code" means a similiar change of tides in how the archaelogical world sees these lands now with new eyes as with the discovery of the Sky Disc of Nebra. The oldest depiction of the Cosmos ever found. Pointing to a high civilization in Central Europe where till shortly before historians believed to be nothing more than swamps and huts and dumb "barbarians".
Classic34    
4 Oct 2018  #375
`bratwurst boy,'

I am using `pre-slav' quoting from wikipaedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Slavic
Tacitus 1 | 765    
4 Oct 2018  #376
Evidences? Just go google on evidences. Net is full of them

Then it should be easy for you to provide us with them. Because I have not found one single modern historian who support your claims.

Remember, this is what you were claiming:

but actually degraded to suit small, vulgar and greedy societies

If write something like this, one would expect that you are able to back it up. So far you utterly failed in this task.
Crow 146 | 7,594    
4 Oct 2018  #377
In comparison to vast diversity of native European Sarmatian (ie Slavic) societies- urban, rural and nomadic, early Greek and Roman societies lack resources and don`t have enough space. Only later, when they strengthened thanks to loathing, murdering, kidnapping and rape of native Sarmats, those societies became more suitable for living.
Tacitus 1 | 765    
4 Oct 2018  #378
Crow, neither the Romans nor the Greeks expanded in the Balkans as a precondition for their glory.

The Greek city states were tiny yet produced great philosophers like Platon, and build such wonders as the Akropolis.

Rome only really expanded in the Balkans (e.g. Illyrium) under Augustus, many years after they defeated Carthage and conquered Gaul.

And compared to the rich areas in Sicily, Egypt and Gaul, the Balkans were of considerable less importance. This is basic history and can be read in any history book.

Again Crow, you claimed that the Sarmatians have given many things to the West. What exactly are you refering to?
Crow 146 | 7,594    
4 Oct 2018  #380
@Tacitus

Entire Europe was Sarmatian. How started expansion of Rome? By destroying Eruscans and Sabinians, who all were Sarmatians (ie Slavs). Gaul, Thracia, too. Etc, etc.

Similar was with Greeks. Subjugation and destruction of native Sarmats in Thracia, Anatolia, etc.
Tacitus 1 | 765    
4 Oct 2018  #381
The Etruscans were Ancient Greeks (or at least strongly influenced by them). The Sabines were Italics. Neither of them were Slavs, let alone Sarmatians.

The Ancient Greeks Colonized several cities around the Coast of Anatolia, but most of that are was occupied by Persia until well after the Athenian Golden Age. The Thracians were no Sarmatians (and indeed fought many battle against the Sarmatians).

Again, I am waiting for any evidence for what you claimed earlier.
Crow 146 | 7,594    
4 Oct 2018  #382
Wrong, wrong.

You know nothing. Use google search.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,101    
4 Oct 2018  #383
That's true of course in case of tribes that lived close to their but Romans didn't have much clue what was going on along the Vistula

That's the long believed misconception...

I second it. It is also worth remembering that many original Roman and ancient Greek sources have been lost in the course of history. However, many other sources of the antiquity era have been preserved by the Arabs or the Muslim world in general in the Middle Ages (much to the disappointment of the rednecks of this forum).

An archeological discovery of 2017/2018 in Poland has revealed that Roman soldiers were staying in the area of Kujawy up to 2 thousand years ago. - "This is evidenced by the uncovered fragments of equestrian gear and legionnaire outfit. Many of them were discovered for the first time outside the borders of the Roman Empire" - told the Polish press agency PAP dr Bartosz Kontny of the University of Warsaw Institute of Archeology.

As a unique thing among the analyzed artefacts, the archaeologist indicates a gilded copper application of the hip belt. It depicts the spear of the beneficiary, or a high-ranking officer of the Roman army. "It was an attribute of his power," says the archaeologist.

At the end of the first century the Romans could have come to this area at the request of the Lugia (Vandals) tribe fighting the Suebi. Archaeologists believe that among the representatives of the Przeworsk culture (living, among others, in the Kujawy area in the first centuries of our era) were also the Lugians.

"According to the records of the Roman historian Cassius Dion, it appears that the Emperor Domitian sent a hundred riders to help them, and we can not exclude that some of the artefacts discovered by us are an element of equipment belonging to one of them," says the archaeologist.

dzieje.pl/sites/default/files/styles/open_article_750x0_/public/201804/legionista1.jpg?itok=SJGb-XBr
Tacitus 1 | 765    
4 Oct 2018  #384
Use google search.

I did just to be safe. Read the Wikipedia entries about the Etruscans, the Sabines, theThracians and so on. They provide good information about their origin and so on. None of which are Sarmatian. What information are you refering to?

You know Crow, so far you have failed to back up any of your claims. All you do is pointing to -seemingly nonexistent sources - or claiming things anyone with a basic knowledge of Ancient History can debunk.

I must say this really does not speak well of your character. First you insult the heritage of the two most important Ancient European civilizations and then you either have no arguments or you make them up.
Crow 146 | 7,594    
4 Oct 2018  #385
What you doing is to state whatever was stated in accordance with well known Indo-Germanic theory, which was under the pressure of overwhelming evidences sent in oblivion, abandoned and canceled because of purely political background.

On the contrary to you, merely informing you about facts on Sarmatian (ie Slavic) autochtonicity in Europe. So, I bringing new/old conclusions while you defending your position by promotion of conclusions that were result of abandoned theories. So you are the one that needs evidences not myself. My evidences are available to anyone on the net and yours are in false theories that were abandoned.
Tacitus 1 | 765    
4 Oct 2018  #386
Crow, I am mereley stating what has been the established opinion by international historians for many years. You claim the Etruscians as Sarmatians. We do have found many records of their language, and it is clear that they spoke a mixture of Greek, Phoenician and Italic. No Sarmatian origin whatsoever.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_language

What evidence are you talking about? Please provide me with a link or anything.
Crow 146 | 7,594    
4 Oct 2018  #387
Listen. Google. I have no time right now but I will join you latter in giggling.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
4 Oct 2018  #388
On the contrary to you, merely informing you about facts on Sarmatian (ie Slavic) autochtonicity in Europe.

Thing is Crowie...without any comprehensible links I could also "inform" you about the fact that the moon is made up from blueberry joghurt. One can choose to believe me or not...it would be a case of BELIEVE not proof!
Crow 146 | 7,594    
4 Oct 2018  #389
But truly, everything is on the net. Even evidences why was Indo-Germanic theory false. But people are lazy to google. I here promote hard work. Still, for lazy one, I will give some link when suits me. I don`t have time for links right now and plus, I am artistic in my nature and now I`m not in the mood for links.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
4 Oct 2018  #390
Understood....and we aren't going anyhwere, have lotsa patience and can wait! :)



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