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Nickidewbear 23 | 583
18 Sep 2009 #31
"-ski" could be a mark of nobility as well, but it's also a very Jewish-Polish or other Jewish-Slavic suffix. Then again, according to Wikipedia (and be discerning about Wikipedia), Marek Soieski's mother was Zofia Danilowicza (Sofia Danylovna).
Barbee 1 | 3
14 Oct 2009 #32
My Wojtowicz family had a farm near Radom. Does that mean they were nobles?

Not sure what "wicz" means. We are not Jewish.
markskibniewski 3 | 200
14 Oct 2009 #33
In Poland from what I have read there are 2 types of nobility.

1. The szlachta (nobility) inherited both status and land. They were, however, obligated to perform military service for the king, and to submit to his tribunals (his court of moral principles or laws), but they were the independant magistrates over their own lands

2. noble/yeomanry which is the more common form in which person received ownership of lands and were given the right to bear a coat of arms. No real title was bestowed upon them.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
14 Oct 2009 #34
Owning a peasant farm or smallholding was not that same as a landowning noble. Wźjtowicz means the village mayor's son.
Any Polish name can be held by a Jew. Some but not all had typcially Jewish names like Szapiro, Margolis, Lubartower or Lubartowski, Posner or Poznański...
Mystic 2 | 48
14 Oct 2009 #35
not sure about australia but in the US many, many poles dropped the ski or changed their names to make them easier in america.. some, you'd never even know were poles..

I know this was from a while back, but I'm not sure how true this is. Most Poles I know (I live in New Jersey, USA) have "ski" at the end of their last name. My surname in America is Seyglinski, but in Poland it was originally Szczygliński. I wish I could find more about it, though.. I've searched quite a bit and it's evidently quite rare.
24 Oct 2009 #36
my name is sajdloski and I live in the USA, and I am proud to be Polish. Both my parents were polish and their parents were Polish
lightalma 7 | 13
16 May 2010 #37
Thread attached on merging:
Names of Counts and Countesses of Poland 1800s

Where do I go to find these names, also where they lived in estates etc. Is there an address I can visit when I am in Poland next month?

Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
16 May 2010 #38
start here:
20 Dec 2010 #39
hi I'm Polish and I know a lot about Polish nobility above all divided into four types of nobility;
A parochial
2 Earth
3 magnates
4 Knights
depending on social status and financial status of the family. arms of the nobility began to appear from the early 13th century as signs of the knights were all participating knights. noble names in Poland are usually those ending in: ski cki Icz first two caps are the names of the Polish nobility and is Icz caps names Lithuanian nobility both countries joined the union in the 14th century against the Teutonic Order. name indicates that nobility of the functions performed or the place from which they came from Radomski for example indicates that a person bearing that name comes from the same town or area in tum case lying Radom in Poland, or for example Makowiecki yo man who was engaged in poppy cultivation, if you have problems with the Polish history write to the address
28 Mar 2011 #40
Have you visited Ostrozany? I visited the village- as my relatives came about 1/2 mile in the next village. The family name was Kosk- but reportedly had great wealth - but much was taken by the Russians. Even w/o the "ski" ending- some families did have great weath.
31 Mar 2012 #41
Grandparents surname has no "-ski", but it seems they were also nobility; even a river once existed with that name, but it was renamed many years ago. Does anyone have any information on the name BOBER from Dzievin/Bochnia? - Bea
Hannowsky - | 2
20 Jun 2012 #42
Merged: Hannowsky - meaning of the name, nobility?, genealogy


my name ist Dirk Hannowsky. My family comes from Forst / Guben (Lausitz), where the "oldest" Hannowsky I know of was born in 1704.
I am curious to find relatives and older ancestors.
I also wonder, what my name means and wether our familiy might be noble. I found hints to that on:

However, our name might have been spelt differently then, e.g. Hanowski (von Hanow).

Does anybody know more? - Thank you very much in advance!
boletus 30 | 1,366
20 Jun 2012 #43
I also wonder, what my name means and wether our familiy might be noble. I found hints to that on:

Your Austrian source contains this entry: HANOW, HANOWSKI vom WAPPEN JASIENCZYK, which actually means that the families Hanow and Hanowski (alongside some other 130 families in Poland) were entitled to use Jasieńczyk coat of arms (alternative: Jasienice, Jasiona, Klucz).

You need to realize that only in the Polish heraldic tradition, as opposed to the West European traditions, the coats of arms have their own names and they are rarely associated with one family only. One reason for it was a so-called adoption process to the coat of arms, existing in Poland already in the fourteenth century, and particularly frequently used in the fifteenth century. It was based on the official "adoption" of a person (being ennobled) by someone from the old nobility to their coat of arms. Often the adoptee was given a variation of the original coat of arms.

There is a historically known fact of the collective act of adoption of Lithunian gentry and Ruthenian boyars to the crests of leading Polish magnates after the Union of Horodło, 1413. Since the adoption to crest posed the potential for abuse, adoptions for fee, purchases of the gentry status and uncontrolled growth of gentry each adoption required approval of Sejm (Parliament), beginning with the mid XVI c.


Your surname, alongside many other surnames beginning in "Han", is either derived from female name Hanna (Anna) or from German male name Han, an abbreviation from Johann, Johannes (= Jan). In Poland, during middle ages, the given name Han was equivalent to the name Jan. Consequently, in many cases, the surname Hanowski could be a re-spelled name Janowski.

The Hannowsky surname is probably just a variation on Hanowski; I would not take much notice here regarding the spelling difference. For example, one of the "Han-like" villages in old Poland, is (still existing) Hanowo, gmina (municipality) Grudziądz, district Grudziądz, Kuiavian-Pomeranian voivodship. It was once spelled Hannowo in German.

Hanowski is just more popular than Hannowsky. In Germany, there are 147 phone book entries with the name Hanowski (estimated 392 people), but only 14 entries for Hannowsky (estimated 37 persons).

In Poland, there are 100 registered people of the name Hanowski, and none of Hannowsky. Just few of them are in Krosno Odrzańskie county; which includes town of Gubin.

There is no easy way to prove whether or not your ancestry was of noble origin, or if they were just peasants or tradesman born in or around various villages with the prefix "Han" or "Jan". You would have to go back generation, after generation - repeating exactly the same process, through which many of the Polish gentry had to go in 19th c. to prove to Prussian, Russian and Austrian partitioning powers that they were indeed of documented Polish gentry, worthy of some privileges, such as not being subject to forceful conscription to tsarist armies.

Nevertheless, the noble Hanowski clans were spread all over Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Some used to live in Warmia:
Here is what father Franciszek Bałuta wrote in a baptism book in 1947:

From the old times when Warmia belonged to Polish Republic - from 1466 to 1772, 300 hundred years or about nine generations - the traces of noble and folk surnames still remain.

Other "Han" surnames belonged to nobility of Wołyń (Wolhynia), Podole (Podolia) and Kiev lands: Han, Handerf, Hankiewicz, Hanneman, Hanowski, Hanzak, Hańkowski, Hański.

Ornatowski's index of Polish nobility lists the following names, which seem to be derived from Han (h. is an abbreviation from "herb", a coat of arms):

Hanaszewski h. Gąska; Hancewicz h. Pomian; Hanczewicz h. Gozdawa; Handa h. Doliwa; Hanel h. Odrowąż; Hanicki h. Korczak; Haniewicz h. Nowina; Haniewski h. Pomian; Hankiewicz h. Awdaniec; Hankowski h. Korczak; Hanow, Hanowski h. Jasieńczyk; Hannowiecki h. Junosza; Hanusiewicz, Hanusowicz h. Korczak;

Hanuszewicz h. Radwan; Hański h. Gozdawa, Korczak

And there are many villages in Poland starting in "Han". The good help here would be an old book in Polish, available for free as e-book: Słownik Geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego i innych krajów słowiańskich, Volume 3, By Filip Sulimierski, Bronisław Chlebowski, Władysław Walewski, Warszawa 1882.

(A geographic dictionary of Polish Kingdom and other Slavic countries). Find the name, such as Hanowo, get it in Wikipedia, then locate it on google maps, and then follow historical details. Nowadays, many local websites present their history in English as well.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
20 Jun 2012 #44
boletus - your posts are always a pleasure to read - well researched and always interesting :)
boletus 30 | 1,366
21 Jun 2012 #45
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Nickidewbear 23 | 583
21 Jun 2012 #46
"Wicz" means "son" or "descendant"--e.g., Daniłowicz (of which I have no indication as to whether I am a Danite or just a descendant of a Daniel), Andrulewicz (Andrulevich. My great-granddad was born in Cumań on his mother's way to visit a cousin in Kiew), Morgiewicz (or Margiewicz. Anyway, we are still Jews).

Meanwhile, my granddad told the cockamamie story that we were related to Stefan Czarniecki and that we are of Polish-Lithuanian noble descent. Not even close! We were Jews who settled in Lipsk, Suwałki, Białystok, Krasne, Sejny, Bose, and G-d knows where else in Polish Russia.

Owning a peasant farm or smallholding was not that same as a landowning noble. Wźjtowicz means the village mayor's son.
Any Polish name can be held by a Jew. Some but not all had typcially Jewish names like Szapiro, Margolis, Lubartower or Lubartowski, Posner or Poznański...

Thank you. This only helps to confirm that we are Jews. Great-Great-Granddad Chernetski (whose granddad was a Jewish Chernetski, and his mother a Jewish Laczinsky) was set to inherit the family farm in Lipsk nad Biebrzą until he converted during the pogroms. Meanwhile, I don't have off hand who said that Morgiewicz or Margiewicz came from "Margolis" in some cases, but someone said it--Great-Great-Grandma Czarnecki's mother was a Morgiewicz (Margiewicz. She botched the names quite deliberately on the death certificate--in the way that she left information for Great-Grandaunt Alice to fill out, anyway).
p3undone 8 | 1,135
21 Jun 2012 #47
boletus,would you know about the names Ustaszewski and Mosoewicz?
boletus 30 | 1,366
21 Jun 2012 #48
Surname Mosoewicz violates Polish orthography rules. The closest acceptable version would be MOSIEWICZ or MOJSIEWICZ. It derives from the name Moses. Borrowed from Greek in two versions: Moyses and Moses; Latin Moyses, Moses; German Moses, Mose, Moyse. In Polish Moses is spelled Mojżesz, which is a variation of the Eastern Orthodox Church name Mojsiej, and the Yiddish word Mosze.

USTASZEWSKI surname may derive from several sources.
1. From word USTA and its derivatives
Usta (plural only noun: mouth, lips), usteczka (diminutive of usta), ustny (adjective: oral), ustnie (orally).
Poduścić, poduszczać (to dare somebody).
Uście rzeki (Old Polish: mouth of the river, estuary). Modern word "ujście" is a corrupted form of "uście", with the wrong explanation that it derives from the verb "ujść" (to let it go, to exit).

Old Slavic Orthodox: ustije (Polish usta), ustiti (Polish: ujście, also English: to stimulate).
Lithuanian: uosta (English: port)
Indian: osztha (English: a lip), aoszta (both lips)
Latin: os (usta), ostium, austium, aestuario (Polish ujście)
Translated from:
In Slovenian ustata means to rise up, to stand up, hence ustaša would mean an insurgent, a rebel.
[Members of Croatian fascist organization, before and during WWII, were called Ustaše, in Polish Ustasze, English: Ustashe, Ustashas or Ustashi.]

2. From the Old Polish given name Uściwoj
Uści (to stimulate) + woj (a warrior) => One who inspires (incites) warriors

3. From given name Eustachy
Known in Poland since 13th c. It derives from Greek Eustachios, Eustachus: eu (well) + stachus (ear of corn, offspring); adopted in Latin as Eustachius. Polish variations of Eustachy: Awstach, Abstach, Jawczach.

4. From given name Eustacy
Confused in Poland with Eustachy, it derives from Greek Eustathios: eustathes (well-placed, healthy). Other Polish variations: Awstacy, Abstacy, Jawstacy. Eastern borderlands versions: Ostap, Ostaf, Ostafiej.

There are 181 Ustaszewski and 144 Ustaszewska people registered in Poland. Majority of them live in £omża and Ostrołęka districts. It might be of interest to find out why it is so, but I am too tired to investigate it now.

[Moi Krewni is a Polonized version of an international program, which does not recognize that -ski and -ska pertain to the same surnames]
Hannowsky - | 2
21 Jun 2012 #49
Boletus: Thank you very much for your answer! It was very interesting to read and very helpful for further research on that topic.
I had speculated that maybe the family comes from Hanow in Eastern Poland, near the border to Belarus and Ukrania - where, by the way, the name would be spelt with an "-sky" at the end. - Do you think that is possible?
p3undone 8 | 1,135
21 Jun 2012 #50
boletus,Thank you very kindly,for taking the time to come up with what you have.I really appreciate it.
boletus 30 | 1,366
22 Jun 2012 #51
I had speculated that maybe the family comes from Hanow in Eastern Poland, near the border to Belarus and Ukrania

Hanów, gmina (municipality) Dębowa Kłoda, Parczew district, Lublin Voivodship. It lies 35 km West from Włodawa (on the Bug River, close to the borders with Belarus and Ukraine).

Hanów is a very young settlement. The first mention comes only from 1921's first census of the Second Republic. The village was established in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century on the part of the village Nietiahy. The name of the village comes from the name Hanna. In 1921, the Hanna's colony of 64 people lived in 14 houses.

In that quote they used the word "colony". In Poland, it is usually applied to German settlements.

Just 20 km North of Włodawa, there is village Hanna, gmina Hanna, Włodawa district, Lublin Voivodship.,_Lublin_Voivodeship

For what I understand, both Hanów and Hanna could not serve as your family nest.

where, by the way, the name would be spelt with an "-sky" at the end.

This does not compute historically. This is true that -ski ending Ukrainian surnames are indeed being transliterated to Latin - or to be more exact to English - as -sky. However, this is just a modern rule. Recall that the Ukrainian language and alphabet was still undergoing transformation and standardization as late as 1927 and 1930s. Early documents, mentioning Polish and Rusyn gentry were written in two languages: Polish (Latin) and Rusyn (Cyrillic). Nobody transliterated from Ukrainian to English then. :-)

So the -ski names remained -ski in Polish version and -ський (or something like that) in Rusyn. In early 15th c. Rusyn gentry, at the Eastern part of Red Rus (Grody Czerwienskie), near Lwów and Żydaczów, were still using toponymic forms: Jursza of Chodorowstaw, Stańko of Dawidow (in 1410 he was still known as Ostaszko of Dawidow), Dmytro Lahodowski, Martyn Kalenyk of Podhajec, Michno and Paszko of Borszczow, Juryj of Malczyce, Senko Halka of Iljaszow, Senko of Nahorce, Olechno, Marko and Lenko of Drohoszow, Petro Wolczko of Kolodence, Stecko, Onyszko i Stecko-Ilko of Czerkasy, Dmytro and Jacko of Didoszyce (Diduszyckis), Jacko of Roznitow, Andrejko of Swaryczow, Iwaszko of Duliby, Iwan of Koszawa, Oleksa and Luczko of Witwice, Danko, Myka and Senko of Balice, Jacko of Nowosielice.

The Western part of Red Rus were already using -icz, -cki and -ski forms, such as:
Andrijko and Hryćko Bybelski, Hryćko Kierdejowicz, Hlib Diadkowicz, Wolczko Presłuzycz, Danyło Zaderewicki, Kostko Solneczkowicz, Kostko judge of Przemyśl, Jacko judge of Sanok, Waśko Teptiukowicz, Mychajło Procowicz, Drahut Wołoch, Chodko Czemer, Juryj i Waśko Moszonczycz, Wołczko Kuźmicz, Mychajło Senkowicz, Iwan Danslawicz, Oleszko Hrudkowicz, Waśko Czortkowicz.

So why the -sky form appears in some German or Polish names. It is an effect of Germanization, undertaken at various times, that the -ski, -cki suffixes had been replaced by -sky and -tzky. For example: Czarnowsky, Lubawsky, Naczyńsky were the names common to Northern Poland ( not Ukraine) - Pomerania, Warmia, Kashuby (Royal Prussia), respectively. These areas - plus Upper and Lower Silesia and Lubusz region - are the areas where I would look for Hannowsky variation of Hanowski, not in Ukraine.

But where the -sky suffix came from? From Bohemia, from our Western Slavic cousins. Germans had been exposed to Czech names for much longer period than to Polish names, and accepted the Czech-like suffixes -sky as more natural than -ski.

Czechs spell the -ski ending names with -ský, where ý is known as dlouhé ypsilon (long y). An acute accent over a vowel signifies a long sound. Czech -ský sounds exactly like Polish -ski, while their pronunciation of -ski sounds like -sky in Polish. [This and other such false friends are jokingly referred to as Czech errors in Polish]

For example, Sikorski pronounced by Czechs sounds to Polish ear like Sikursky, while Šikórský as Sikoorski - almost right so as Polish Sikorski.
(With some approximation, since in Polish S becomes palatalized when followed by "i". Hence I replaced Si by Ši to approximate that soft sound).

This is all due to the fact that both languages, though close cousins, have developed their spelling and pronunciation quite differently over the ages.
markskibniewski 3 | 200
2 Jul 2012 #52
You need to realize that only in the Polish heraldic tradition, as opposed to the West European traditions, the coats of arms have their own names and they are rarely associated with one family only.

Funny you should say this because all of my research leads me to believe that my family Skibniewski adopted the name of the family they worked for and were given land as a gift for thier service. Any more information you could give would be helpful.
boletus 30 | 1,366
2 Jul 2012 #53
Skibniewski is a Polish noble line, Ślepowron coat of arms (The word translates to a night heron, but the bird shown in the crest is in fact a raven with a ring in its beak). There are 932 other families using this crest,

Here is also a link to a short list of known Skibniewskis

There are three other families with similar surnames, who use two different coats of arms - HERBS in Polish:

Any more information you could give would be helpful.

Mark, I did not realize that you had been on a long search for Skibniewski ancestry who settled at Podbielko, Gmina Stary Lubotyń, Ostrów Mazowiecka Count, Masovian Voivodship. Apparently you were puzzled about missing records for Skibniewskis before 1826.

I have a good news for you. First read this little story about Masovian roots and two rich Podolian branches of Skibniewski family.

According to this:
Family Skibniewski comes from Podlasie village of Skibniewo. It was first mentioned in a 15th c. court file. After taking possession of estate Kurcze near Skibniew, in the first half of 16th c., they started calling themselves Skibniewskis of Kurcze [Kurcze is a plural name, so in Polish this would be Skibniewscy z Kurzec]. Kurzec has become their ancestral nickname, later used by two Podolian branches of the family, beginning with the figure of Antoni Kurzec - Skibniewski.

Well, there exist two settlements in Masovian Voivodship: Skibniew-Kurcze and Skibniew-Podawce, about 68 km by road, south of from Podbielko.
Skibniew-Kurcze, Gmina Sokołów Podlaski, Sokołów County, Masovian Voivodship. Skibniew-Podawce is on other side of the road, 1 km away. The latter is also a seat of the parish: Parafia Św. Wojciecha, Szkolna 1, 08-300 Skibniew-Podawce tel: (25) 787-69-24 .

In between the two settlements, on the road 627, there is an inn called Retro-Skibniew,

Skibniew is famous throughout the Republic for its hospitality! Guests who arrive are shown such stories that no wise books have ever recorded but only have been passed down by generations of families Niepiekły and Skibniewski. These clans have been feuding for centuries and the cause of the dispute was a beautiful girl. You, dear guests, have to come here to see how it ended ...Everyone will find something for themselves - alone or in a group, enjoy the excellent food and the shelter.

With this I will leave you to your further detective work. Judging from your past posts you are comfortable with Polish parish and civil archives.

You will also find many references to Sokołów County and Skibniewski family from that region

I hope this helps. Good luck.
16 Aug 2013 #54
Ńokielski - does this name have a meaning and where does the family
originate from? My grandfather came to Germany with his wife before
March 1944. He had been detained in Russian camp around WW 1
so, when he was a young lad - he was born 1896. The name Nokielski
is mostly now in America. Iam in South Africa. I have no history and
no way of finding out anything. There seems nothing exists on my
ancestory. How can I help myself to find out something, even a town
or area in Poland ?
Astoria - | 155
17 Aug 2013 #55
NOKIELSKI: likely toponimic origin from several villages or the city of Nakło nad Notecią (Nakło on the river Noteć). Nokielski is someone from Nakło. Nakło means a turn of the river in old Polish. 117 men in Poland are named Nokielski and 123 women are named Nokielska (female version of Nokielski).

As you can see most live in Silesian and Opole Voivodeships. Several villages in that area are called Nakło:

This suggests that your name is most likely associated with one of those villages, and not with the city of Nakło nad Notecią.
18 Aug 2013 #56
very interesting - tx for that information; would the wider area of these villages
be 'evangelical' or lutheran or jewish as far as religion is concerned ?
I have this strong underlying, yet totally unexplained need to confirm something
which is with me almost like 'in my cell structure'. Would it be reasonable
to assume that the family could have been jewish at some time and for some
reason changed religion due to 'political' pressures ? Also, is this a region
where the birch trees grow abundantly, if not almost naturally together with
red poppys flowers and a lot of little white daisies in natural meadows;
nearby natural forests and lakes where people would have taken little sailing
boats with 2 white sails. ???
3 Oct 2013 #57
I am trying to locate my mate's family. Her grand-father was Dominick (Andrew) Oleszko (Olesko). According to his Citizenship papers he was born on November 23, 1883. His wifes' first name was Mary, I can not find her surname, but she also was born in Poland. Both passed away in 1965 & 66 in Hoboken, Hudson Co., New Jersey.

What I have noticed that the surname Oleszko (Olesko) is found in Austria, Poland and Russia. I believe that the part of Poland that her grandparents lived was in each of the three countries one time or another. As Oleszkos have stated that they were born in Austria and was a citizen of the same town, but it was in Poland.

I believe that they came from a town in the northern part of Poland.

Can you help me?

Thank you, in advance, any and all help that you can do for me.

Walt Williams
22 May 2014 #58
which is why many migrant added ski to there name when they migrated.
24 Aug 2014 #59
General rule when it comes to names is that peasants were named after the trade they were doing, the nobility after the places or actions. The -ski, -cki, -ic, -icz endings are purely for conjugation and stem from regional etymology.

There are logs of all families who have status of nobility - the lesser or higher as in landowners, or those who form aristocrats. The status of nobility is lost when land is lost generally. Hence many families lost all during the partition period when land was notoriously taken away by Russians, Germans, and Austrian for political involvement of the persons or families in question.

You all need to find someone who can read polish and read the lists first. Then you may, if you are successful, to trace your family in direct line to the last person noted in the lists. There are nobility societies in Poland that deal with this.

Many people can have the same name - very often peasants took on their landowners last names, but were not allowed to use coat of arms. Many times people changed names for other reasons. This is why persons used to be introduced, (up until WWII) in social circles as eg: Jelec h. Leliwa, or Jelec h. Poraj. The first is the last name, a very old one, y own family's , the "h" stands for "sign" (as the sign on shield, to be exact) the last is the actual name of the coat of arms/sign.

To receive nobility status, a person must have served another noble family - usually a powerful house, and serve in war or perform an extraordinary act. Then the person was admitted, sponsored by the noble family, the application was put forth to the king, and if the decision was favorable, the person in question would be awarded land by the sponsoring noble family, or the Crown.

Noble status goes hand in hand with owning land and being obligated to fulfill military service without question.
Owning a farm after the WWI means only that - owning some piece of land. As the peasantry was stricken down in the mid 1800s. Many former peasants, much like slaves in US, were not allowed to own substantial amount of land, this tied them to work the land of the main landowner in the area - the actual nobleman.

The von is not the same as -ski or other various endings in Polish names.
Polish nobility was much richer than German one, and owned many, many, many estates spread all over Poland. So it is not possible to say so and so from this place to this place. More accurate would be the French de, as in eg.: Jelec h. Leliwa of Kobryn, of Drohiczyn, of Bezdziez, etc, etc.

There were about 200,000 nobility families - not that much comparing the vastness of population of Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Pomerania, Kurlandia, Liga, and others. About 200,000 families governed 2,000,000 peasants up to the end of 19th century.

Best bet is to look up Polish Nobility Society and contact them. This is the main body that looks after this.

should be: Just in Ukraine 200,000 Polish families names governed 2,000,000 peasant families. The vast numbers of population, will by nature of language, have some names repeat. This is why many families will have a few different coat of arms - too differentiate between lines.

Many noble families lost status due to falling into poverty, economic reasons, political, gambling, land lost due to war and lost lands, etc. The nobility status the was symbolic only. Families were lost this way often too.

Noble families were not allowed to perform trades, and only those who were in dire straits took up teaching, medicine, even working the land themselves - since it is the base of all nobility - owning land was the core. Very seldom did they take up trades like smith, or cooper - this was not done.
28 Dec 2015 #60

BoldItalic [quote]
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