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Is it Likely One of My Polish Ancestors Did Some Funny Business With a Bulgarian?


PolkaTagAlong 10 | 186
18 Oct 2012 #1
At first I wasn't suprised to see a big Bulgaria segment on my ancestry finder results on a genealogy test, I probably had Polish relatives who moved there I thought. However, when I heard that Bulgaria is a popular vacation spot for Poles, a thought occured. What if my ancestors traveled to Bulgaria, and the wife did some funny business and ended up pregnant with the Bulgarian man's child instead of the husband's? It certainly seems the more likely explanation. It's impossible for me to tell what the ethnic background of the relative I get that from is, they keep their information private. Some of my Polish relatives did have a very dark complexion, but there are lots of Polish people who have that. Some are very Pale, and some tan well naturally. Nonetheless it is very, very interesting and mindblowing to find that your ancestors probably had illegitimate children.

Back in the late 1700s to early 1800s, could Polish people afford to travel to Bulgaria? I'm pretty sure they were middle class. Or do you think it's more likely I just have a distant relative of Polish ethnicity who migrated there recently?
boletus 30 | 1,366
18 Oct 2012 #2
Back in the late 1700s to early 1800s, could Polish people afford to travel to Bulgaria? I'm pretty sure they were middle class.

Not very likely because Bulgaria was subjugated to Ottoman Empire since 1396 and only got liberated in 1878. The only significant Polish-Bulgarian connection was a "Polish-Hungarian crusade commanded by Władysław III of Poland set out to free the Bulgaria and the Balkans in 1444, but the Turks emerged victorious at the battle of Varna." Young Władysław III, later known as Warneńczyk, died in that battle.
OP PolkaTagAlong 10 | 186
18 Oct 2012 #3
So what do you think explains that Bulgarian segment on my chromosome though? I have no ancestors that were Bulgarian immigrants (those people didn't even come to America) and I have no last names going back as many generations that I could trace that would be anything but Polish. If it is actual Bulgarian ancestry, it would have to be from an affair that produced an illegitimate child. During modern times, like 1900s would a Pole ever migrate to Bulgaria? Doesn't seem like a better place to move, just sayin. It seems like it would have to be that either a Pole or a Bulgarian was traveling to the other's home country, and somebody had an affair outside of marriage.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
18 Oct 2012 #4
You can determine nationality from DNA its an inexact definition, If it not your recent ancestors

You cannot determine nationality from DNA, its an inexact definition, If it not your recent ancestors

You may find that the part (0.001%) you think is Bulgaria is actually the part of Bulgaria that is Polish
OP PolkaTagAlong 10 | 186
18 Oct 2012 #5
Of course you can't lol! What it's doing is finding distant cousins and grouping them by their nationality. So if I have a fourth cousin from Bulgaria, I don't know how that is possible unless one of my polish relatives emigrated not too long ago or someone had an illegitimate child.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
18 Oct 2012 #6
The mixing and matching might have happened during or just after WW2. People were scattered all over the place then. Just a thought.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
19 Oct 2012 #7
Of course you can't lol

So DNA going back tens of centuries defines the modern borders of modern countries? I don't think so.
OP PolkaTagAlong 10 | 186
19 Oct 2012 #8
Not sure what you're talking about lol. What country their nationality is listed as has nothing to do with their ethnicity. All I know is that they reside in that country.
isthatu2 4 | 2,704
20 Oct 2012 #9
A horny Russian Liason officer getting posted around the Warsaw Pact nations ? ;)

...mind you,then you'd probably have a russian cousin or two.......argh,see your frustration lol

Apparently 18 million living Europeans can trace back to Ghengis Khan so ,Im afraid,anything is possible DNA wise :)
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
22 Oct 2012 #11
Not sure what you're talking about lol.

Polka you're not a terribly bright are you? He is trying to tell you that it is quite likely that your ancestors had probably absolutely nothing to do with Bulgaria, because nationality does not go hand in hand with ethnicity.

Back in the late 1700s to early 1800s, could Polish people afford to travel to Bulgaria?

Not very likely, if you are the descendant of peasants they would be lucky to travel to the next village, let alone Bulgaria. They could have had it off with one of the Czar's soldiers, which is a entirely different matter altogether.
David_18 68 | 982
22 Oct 2012 #12
Poles always been preset in every corner of europe, the richer folks in the 18'th century traveled mostly to france but also to the balkans for vacation. Krim was quite popular in the 19-20'th century.
boletus 30 | 1,366
22 Oct 2012 #13
So what do you think explains that Bulgarian segment on my chromosome though?

One explanation could involve Tatars, who are partial descendents from Volga Bulgars.

So when you say "Bulgarian chromosome segment" what do you mean: Slavic, Turkish, Mongolian?

richer folks in the 18'th century traveled mostly to france but also to the balkans for vacation.

David_18, please name at least one Polish "richer folk" travelling to Bulgaria for vacation in 18th century. I can easily imagine and actually dig out names of many Polish aristocrats and nobility travelling to France, Greece and Italy for pleasure, others travelling to Western Europe for business of for education, but I somehow do not see Polish travellers resting in Bulgarian Black Sea resorts in 1700s. I am not taunting you; I am just curious. If you prove me wrong, then I will be happy learning my lesson for free. But since you said it, the onus is on you to support your claim now. :-)

I bet, more Poles travelled to Turkey proper (of Ottoman Empire) than to Bulgaria over the centuries: as envoys, diplomats, spies, merchants and romantic figures of The Great Emmigration dreaming of restoration of Poland with the help of the ancient enemy - Turkey: Mickiewicz (died in Istanbul), Słowacki, genaral Józef Bem (later known as Murad Pasha, Murat Pasa, Yusuf Paşa), Michał Czajkowski (Mehmed Sadyk Pasa), general Marian Langiewicz. The existence of Polish village Adampol-Polonezköy (30 km west from Istanbul, on Asian side of Bosphorus Straight) says something too about strong Polish-Turkish relations in 19th c.

Krim was quite popular in the 19-20'th century.

There is the old saying in Polish: "Gdzie Rzym, a gdzie Krym?" - in other words, "this two things/ideas are not related at all".

The topic was: Polish Bulgarian contacts. Statistically one cannot deny presence of Bulgarians in Crimea. And yes, Poles tradesmen were always present in Crimea in small numbers during middle ages, in places like Caffa (Kaffa, Kefe, orig. Greek's Theodosia, now Feodosiya), Soldaia (Sudaq, now Sudak), Lusta (Alushta), Caulita (Yalta) or Cembalo (Balaklava).

They were part of European colonies on the south coast of the Crimean Peninsula, initially run by Venetians and later by their arc-enemies Genoese (since 1365) - embedded in the sea of Crimean Tatars, to whom they paid annual tribute. In 1462 Caffa placed itself under the protection of King Casimir IV of Poland. However, Poland did not offer help when real danger came. It all end up in 1475, when Ottommans captured all the outposts. They killed most of non-Italian Europeans (including Poles) or took them into captivity for a ransom, and deported the rest of the population to Istanbul. Italians were sent to Genoa, after paying hefty ransom.

As far as I know, aside of the Varna Battle, which I mentioned in my previous post, Poland was never directly involved in Bulgarian affairs. However, Poland and later Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth messed with the Moldovian affairs, and through the Moldovian Hospodars (Poland's Fiefs since 1387) extended its posession as far south as Białogród (White Stronghold) na Dniestrem (Akerman, now Bilhorod-Dnistrovs'kyi - Ukraine), on Dniester Lagoon, about 20 km NW from the Black Sea coast. When the town was captured in 1484 by the Ottomans its name was changed to Akerman, meaning "white fortress".

Then there were Vlachs/Romanias (Wallachians), Wołosi in Polish. And there were plenty of contacts with them. Great Wallachian migration brought Karpathian shepherds to Poland, Wallachian soldiers served in Polish armies, and PLC was involved in wars with Principality of Wallachia (1599, 1629-21, 1633-34, 1599-1600, 1620-21, 1633-34). In many of those battles the Wallachians were the allies of the Ottomans. So was Moldavia from time to time.
OP PolkaTagAlong 10 | 186
22 Oct 2012 #14
One explanation could involve Tatars, who are partial descendents from Volga Bulgars.

But it's a distant like 4-6th cousin match. It couldn't be that close of a relation if it was that. It is NOT a "similarity" that it's measuring, it's a relation.

Polka you're not a terribly bright are you? He is trying to tell you that it is quite likely that your ancestors had probably absolutely nothing to do with Bulgaria, because nationality does not go hand in hand with ethnicity.

Obviously, but he doesn't make much sense.

So when you say "Bulgarian chromosome segment" what do you mean: Slavic, Turkish, Mongolian?

For the GAZILLIONTH time, someone of Bulgarian NATIONALITY.
boletus 30 | 1,366
23 Oct 2012 #15
For the GAZILLIONTH time, someone of Bulgarian NATIONALITY.

Why are you so angry? Just learn some basic facts - maybe from here: /wiki/Bulgarians

The Bulgarians have descended from three main tribal groups, which mixed themselves and formed a Slavic-speaking nation and ethnicity in the First Bulgarian Empire: 1) the Slavs, who gave their language to the Bulgarians; 2) the Bulgars, from whom the ethnonym and the early statehood were inherited; as well as 3) the 'indigenous' late Roman provincial peoples: Thraco-Romans and Thraco-Byzantines, from whom certain cultural elements were taken.

OP PolkaTagAlong 10 | 186
24 Oct 2012 #16
Why are you so angry? Just learn some basic facts - maybe from here

Because you don't get what I'm trying to say and I don't know how else to explain it to you. People move to different countries all the time and if they become citizens of that country, that is their nationality, not the previous country where they are descended from. We know that the person I am related to is a CITIZEN of Bulgaria.


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