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Is Czarnecki Really A Polish Or Actually A Sephardic Jewish Surname?


p3undone 8 | 1,135
18 Jul 2012 #61
It doesn't,matter that's your opinion,which you can't prove one way or the other if they did.Magdalena had her opinion and she explains what she meant in 55,you disregard it and if any one differs with you they have to be evil,is basically what you just said.You don't care that you were offensive to me.or even acknowledge that I'm trying to be fair.She said they wouldn't have had the time,therefore did not delegitimize any aspect of the inquisition.Your taking what this Powell said and running with it as if she has the final say.Your saying that this is solid fact and that there were records and they were destroyed.This is theory;nothing more,nothing less.So you and I are going to agree to disagree.
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
18 Jul 2012 #62
You're twisting what I said and what she said, and even what About.com's expert said. This is more than about agreeing to disagree, and you're not trying to be fair. You clearly, so to speak, have a dog in the fight. I know that the idea that a supposedly-inherently-Polish surname is actually Sephardic Jewish and Spanish in origin is not a popular idea, but I couldn't care less about being popular. I'm not popular among my own family, and I was stupid to expect that most people would find me likable here--especially because I, so to speak, bust the can open on a lot of things and am not in anyone's box in one or any other way.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
18 Jul 2012 #63
I actually do like you Nickidewbear,even if you don't believe it.You have Huzpah!I haven't twisted anything.I think you are a good person,I just think that you are too quick to dismiss what people say.If you read you're posts and some of your knee jerk reactions with a convicted heart,you will see what I'm talking about.This is how we grow.If I didn't like you;I wouldn't be discussing with you as much as I have.I'm not perfect and I'm trying to be fair,I apologize if you can't see it that way.Btw,I could care less if the surname was Spanish or not and I don't have a dog in the race..
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
18 Jul 2012 #64
Thank you for the compliment; and maybe I was too quick to judge: maybe you trying to be fair. I understand that accepting that "Czarnecki" may have been "Czarnegaje" and, before that, "Sotosnegros" may be hard; but I'm not just pulling these theories out of my head and/or my butt.

edit:

Look; records were destroyed in the Crusades and Inquisition, and that inspired destruction of some records during the Holocaust. However, as JewFAQ notes, "they carefully preserved synagogue records of births, deaths and marriages back to the 1840s... so they could identify Jews for extermination." Nonetheless, they destroyed what records they destroyed along with towns, etc., or weren't saving for their horrendous museum of the to-be-wiped-out Jewish population--as though they could and would wipe us out! The Spanish and others weren't as interested in having a "Museum Of An Extinct Race" during the Inquisition and Crusades.
Barney 15 | 1,476
18 Jul 2012 #65
Is it not easier and more accurate to say that that website is wrong?
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
18 Jul 2012 #66
understand that accepting that "Czarnecki" may have been "Czarnegaje" and, before that, "Sotosnegros" may be hard; but I'm not just pulling these theories out of my head and/or my butt.

Oh but you are, and there's the rub! ;-)
You disregard the etymology and history of both Spanish and Polish surnames completely. You have been told when Polish surnames started to emerge; you have been told where the surname Czarnecki comes from; and you have been reminded that Polish Jews only started taking on surnames approx. 200 years ago. Your possibly Jewish relatives could have been called Czarnecki for a number of reasons, but definitely not because they were descended from Sephardic Spanish Jews.

The Spanish and others weren't as interested in having a "Museum Of An Extinct Race" during the Inquisition and Crusades.

I can understand that, but they also did not have the organisation and logistics back then for a full-blown document-destroying operation. Things were a lot more hit-and-miss, and people or documents would slip through the net. That's all I've been saying all this time.

I'm really curious how far this thread can go before someone's brain explodes ;-)

Anyway, we can't be anti-Semitic towards a baptised Catholic who attended mass on a regular basis for years.

Spot on. And frankly, we've all been quite pleasant to you all this while and it's not us doing the name-calling. I have absolutely nothing against you as a person. I am even trying to have a relatively serious discussion with you on one of the wilder claims that I have ever come across.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
18 Jul 2012 #67
. I also hate when those like Magdalena, jon357, and delphadomine twist it into an Anti-Semitic game and say that I slander my own family!

fgs Nicki, there's no 'anti semitism', just questioning of what on earth you are talking about.
Many of us are interested in the origins of our family names, but hey, they are only names, don't hang your whole life and identity on them.

Czarnecki is just a Polish name, no more no less.
There are no places in Spain called this.
why are you getting so irate about it? why not just be American?
jon357 67 | 17,530
18 Jul 2012 #68
Czarnecki is just a Polish name, no more no less.
There are no places in Spain called this.

Spot on

why are you getting so irate about it? why not just be American?

Much more mundane than an interesting fantasy.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
18 Jul 2012 #69
I know this is the type of thread is provocative,but can we keep to the topic and not what you think of her state of mind.This is a tough thread,I know.Thank you.
jasondmzk
18 Jul 2012 #70
It's pretty obvious that she's living a fantasy life - mods, you really shouldn't encourage her on here.

You're outta line. Back off.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
18 Jul 2012 #71
DD she is not well. I think we should leave it.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
18 Jul 2012 #72
Agreed. Let's leave it here, although she's apparently blocked me anyway.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
18 Jul 2012 #73
Delphiandomine,Thanks for deciding to back off..
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
18 Jul 2012 #74
Is Czarnecki Really A Polish Or Actually A Sephardic Jewish Surname?

sephardim.com/search.shtml

in this website it has a names database, but also does give you emails to two gentlemen who might be able to assist further
in your questions

Best of luck in your research.
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
18 Jul 2012 #75
There were names with Soto in them and Soto separately. Thank you for your help. PS To everyone else here (with few exceptions, like jasondmzk); think me as crazy as you want, etc., but I least I did my research and know my history. To the exceptions, thank you for not resorting to flank attacks, etc.. As for everyone else again, look at Patrycja's link: you'll find "Soto", "Rojo", "Negro", and variants thereof.
isthatu2 4 | 2,703
19 Jul 2012 #76
I can believe the murdering part, but I can't see officers of the Inquisition or the crusaders ferreting round for people's personal correspondence, household bills or birth, marriage, and death records in order to destroy it all. They would have been too busy doing that to actually find time to kill anyone. ;-)

Trouble is,this is a BS argument based on BS history based on.....
Ok, the claim that records would be lost because of the inquisition is utter rubbish, the inquisition kept scruplous records which are still in existence both in Spain and the Vatican.

To further muddy the waters the latest research carried out on these and other records relating to the periods of reconquesta and the alleged mass expulsion of jews pretty much points to it being more of a tiny trickle of jews leaving Spain permenantly...

As for Soto being mistaken for Rojo, of three Spanish accents I can be sure of Rojo would be pronounced * royo* or *rocho* (the ch Polish style) or * ro'o* a practicaly silent j. Soto however will always be ,plus or minus a regional lisp, Soto.....
Barney 15 | 1,476
19 Jul 2012 #77
Soto however will always be ,plus or minus a regional lisp, Soto.....

Unless you are in Andalucia where it would be "oto"
isthatu2 4 | 2,703
19 Jul 2012 #78
Lols,the part of andalucia I spent so much of my childhood in it would have been * 0'* "Hasta La Vista" was "A Vee A" :)
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
19 Jul 2012 #79
To further muddy the waters the latest research carried out on these and other records relating to the periods of reconquesta and the alleged mass expulsion of jews pretty much points to it being more of a tiny trickle of jews leaving Spain permenantly...

So you say. Jews were either expelled, left, or forced to convert--or murdered if they refused to do the first three.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
19 Jul 2012 #80
Isnt one of the richest men in Poland's last name Czarnecki? You could be related to him, Nicki.
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
19 Jul 2012 #81
I doubt it. We had the farm in Lipsk; and I did look at Magdalena(?)'s map one time, and only one Daniłowicz family lives in Poland now according to that map. So, that means that my Daniłowicz family has since made aliyah or immigrated to the US and other countries (as did my estranged cousins' family did--my cousins are Mia, Sophia, and Anna Daniłowicz), and the Chernetskis, Morgiewiczes, and Andrulewiczes who cared about staying religiously Jewish and/or otherwise connected to their Jewish roots would have (if they survived the Holocaust or even before the Holocaust) made aliyah along with the Daniłowiczes who did--or if they immigrated (aliyah being different than immigration), they sure wouldn't have cared to stay in touch with us.

The last time that the family who stayed in Poland and survived the Holocaust made contact with us was, as Granduncle Tony said, in the 1960s to request that the rights of the farm deed be returned to them.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
19 Jul 2012 #82
Nickidewbear,is the farm still in your family?
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
19 Jul 2012 #83
I don't know. I'm sure that if it was, I'd know. I'd have to look at the e-mails again, though.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
19 Jul 2012 #84
Would you ever want to go to Poland and visit,I mean just to visit,no research or anything,just to see Poland.
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
19 Jul 2012 #85
If G-d willed. I'd have to get money, a passport, and a whole bunch of other resources and time, though.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
19 Jul 2012 #86
Thank you for your help

you are welcome. Nicki, you are a smart girl, I am sure you will find what you are lookin for , meantime I would try to keep

open mind, others might not be so receptive , its happened in my research as well, you just have to keep on trying as we
all do with everything in life. you will get setbacks, but thats expected, just move forward.

and try to not take everything to heart because sometimes people misunderstand each other, and might not realize your
real intentions as you misunderstand theirs which may not be meant to upset you to begin with.

hope that makes sense :)
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
19 Jul 2012 #87
Thank you, and I can see your point. Maybe part of my judgement comes from my abuse background, so maybe I'm quick to judge and interpret things in a certain way sometimes.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
19 Jul 2012 #88
only one Daniłowicz family lives in Poland now according to that map

There are 1027 people currently living in Poland with the surname Daniłowicz. A bunch of them live in Sejny and Suwałki (the red areas), so they would be close to the place your family comes from. The most (69) live in Suwałki. So your family might well still be there.
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
19 Jul 2012 #89
That could be the case, but when I checked (at least without the "ł" and with "l"), there was only one. They may well have hutzpah (nerve) to stay or even assimilate.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
19 Jul 2012 #90
Why would you ignore the Daniłowicz people when they seem to be so close to your relative's home? Are you not interested in who they are? I though you wanted to learn more about your family, but you seem to be skirting the issue and sort of trying to sweep them under the carpet. Weird...


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