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Being ashamed of Polish ancestry?


thebadmonkey 2 | 71
24 Feb 2012 #31
Have yet to come across a Pole who is ashamed of being Polish. Have met alot who are ashamed of certain elements of Polish life (Politics, Radio Maria, the neverending red tape etc)..but not of being Polish. Quite a difference..
JonnyM 11 | 2609
24 Feb 2012 #32
Not long ago I met somebody who, though probably not ashamed of anything, pretended not to be Polish. This person is in their forties and has been out of PL for only around ten years. I really can't figure out why someone would do that, even going to such lengths as anglicising their name and refusing to speak Polish, even when other Poles address them in that language.
delphiandomine 87 | 18070
24 Feb 2012 #33
You see the same nonsense among some Poles in the UK - they claim to have "forgotten" Polish and that they couldn't possibly go back.

Much of it appears to be rather queer bravado.
Natasa 1 | 578
24 Feb 2012 #34
To be honest when I speak face to face with western people I feel somewhat inferior even in my own country. But I guess it has much to do with the fact that my interlocutor speaks better english.

Those sentences revealed that this couldn't be Crow in disguise using username Slavia :)

Why feeling of inferiority Slavia. why.

Aren't we all just ordinary people? (If this sentence hurts, send me a PM I might help you.)
Peter Cracow
24 Feb 2012 #35
polish ancestry in a foreign western country feel ashamed of their polish descent

You confuse national origin with class position. Who was a typical Polish immigrant in US in XIX/XX c? Banker, engineer or landlord? No - illiterated peasant. There is nothing to do with nationality. It's just a cliche.

There was no Polish jokes in England where Poles came from Anders army, government on exile, dispossessed aristocracy or so. That's why they were quite optymistic about Polish workers in EU in opposite to Germans where Poles used to be building workers, bauer helpers, etc.

After WW2 Poles lost their chance to be a wealthy society and the stereotypical Pole became to be identified with a lower class/worse/stranger. In 60' Spain turned over Polish economy (GDP p/c) and in 70' even Irish and Portugal (and Grece at last).

At present Poles feel ashamed because of relatively poverty and backwardness, but in my opinion the main reason is that they feel theirselves as unloved and abandoned childs of European/Western civilization. That's the dominant mod inherited by succeeding generations.
Ogorki - | 114
25 Feb 2012 #36
Americans and English are quite arrogant (especially English) they go to foreign countries and expect the foreigners to speak English - and make them feel small. Subconciously - I think this kind of behaviour is due to envy - because Poland has rich culture - honourable military history (just look it up) integrity and soul:-

Home
Where the fields are green
The woods are clean
My soul serene

Poland was betrayed and sold off after WW2 after contributing so much (including Enigma code) Under Communism for 45 years it has become poor and naturally people want to leave. It does not mean they are not proud of their country. It's just basic survival. I have met many American/Pole and English/Poles visiting Poland who are very proud. Some want to live there. It's mainly the German population of America that initiated/spread Polish jokes because they lost the war and blame the Poles. Most Americans naturally assume America is the only place to be/think about and do not think of their roots. Some do not know where some countries are. Poles that go to America for good are usually young or stupid or both. They soon realise that America is 'Not all that' and get depressed. Same in UK. The grass is not always greener. I know many Poles who returned to Poland and are getting better pay and more importantly - better quality of life. This does not mean having lots of money. Money is not everything. Communism in Poland was designed to brain wash the population - subtly and slowly. To make them alcoholics. To make them ashamed.

People who are now under the age of 30 - their children will be the first 'clean' generation. The first generation who will be independent, inspired and mentally free of the current brain washed mentallity.
MarcinD 4 | 135
25 Feb 2012 #37
I am a 28 year old Pole who has lived in America for the past 24 years. I visit Europe every few years & keep close contact with my direct & extended family.

Here's the thing. There are a few points you have to realize when it comes to Poles & America

- In terms of America, Poles are recent immigrants. Post WW2 or even like my family: Cold War. So there aren't many Polish communities and only Chicago in terms of major population. Where I live: San Diego, there are not many Poles at all. A strong community will lead to more financial prospering as individual communities hire their own etc: Italians hiring their own, China Towns, Jews hiring their own and so on. Poles not only do not have the opportunity to help each other but I felt the small community in San Diego was more fixated on competition ''We both immigrated to this country 20 years ago and look at what I drive/where I live etc'', not in those exact words but you understand. Going a step further, because they are recent immigrants....they are mostly middle class. Ticket to Poland & back costs $3,000, then you need spending money. So many Poles either never/rarely return to Poland or like many Polish-Americans....never been. So not only is there a disconnect with Poland but Poles as well.

- Being recent immigrants: They are the butt of immigrant jokes. Italian jokes turned into Irish jokes which then were Poles jokes and are now Mexican. That just how things are

- Hollywood & Government do not have a positive or more precisely respectable view of Poles. For some reason there was an influx of ''Pollak jokes'' after WW2. IMO, there are 2 main reasons for that

A) Large German population in American & Nazi propaganda labeled Poles as mentally weaker
B) Large Jewish-American population that does not correctly understand the Holocaust. You have to realize that many Americans do not know that NON-Jewish Poles were taken to concentration camps and/or killed. Americans, with the help of historically flawed Hollywood have re written history books across the globe. For example Asians & South Americans are more likely to watch a Hollywood film on the Holocaust than European. Many Jews-Americans do not understand how/why concentration camps are in Poland & that over half of all the Jews that died in the Holocaust were Polish. For someone living in Poland it may be difficult to comprehand the power that Hollywood & the media in general have over people in this country. Most Americans watch 4-6 hours of television A DAY. So that is a lot of commercials & brainwashing.

- Americans are very globally & historically ignorant. Many Americans don't possess Passports so they only know what is inside American borders. In grade school, history books begin with Cowboys & Indians and the only mention of Poland is that they had concentration camps. Americans perspective of Poland: Poland is the Mexico of Europe. But honestly, if you're entire opinion of Poland was 1939-present day, you never visited Europe & what you see in Hollywood...it's understandable why they are so ignorant.

- Poles have not broken into Sports.....which is a HUGE financial but also commercial tool in America. Czech has many famous athletes in America so that is the only connection to that country for many Americans. Except for Marcin Gortat in the NBA...there is no one for Poland

So all in all I hope this gives you a little perspective into how & why Polish-Americans might feel the way they do. I grew up being embarrassed as well but that wasn't specifically because I was Polish but because I was just different. In Middle School is when I started to become irritated with all the Polish/Pollak jokes. At this point in my life I don't care what others think because if they are educated & traveled then they will have a positive opinion of Poland, Poles & what it means to be Polish.

I've lived almost 25 years in this country & I am ready to seek work in Europe as the European Union member I am. My sister finished her masters & moved to Berlin. These days I find America to be a very secluded & watered down culture. I do not know how much longer I can live amongst people that care about nothing more than gossip, sports & entertainment.

Poles that go to America for good are usually young or stupid or both. They soon realise that America is 'Not all that' and get depressed. Same in UK. The grass is not always greener. I know many Poles who returned to Poland and are getting better pay and more importantly - better quality of life. This does not mean having lots of money. Money is not everything. Communism in Poland was designed to brain wash the population - subtly and slowly. To make them alcoholics. To make them ashamed.

My father would agree 100% with you.

He said the West would air propaganda on Independent radio in Poland at the time (Early-Mid 80's). He admits he was naive & believed it. There have been many reports that the West purposely kept supplies & food from making it to the East so that it would encourage immigration. America wanted more cheap labor & unlike the Asians & South Americans who immigrate to America now......Eastern Europeans were highly educated & morally rich. Europeans don't really immigrate to America anymore.

My father worked for General Dynamics & the Postal Service as an engineer & the Americans marveled at how educated, organized & skillful he was. As my father said....all I finished was Polish trade school
EM_Wave 9 | 310
25 Feb 2012 #38
Europeans don't really immigrate to America anymore.

Yes, they do. On my college campus there are plenty of European women.
MarcinD 4 | 135
25 Feb 2012 #39
Let me be more specific:

A) Not nearly as many Europeans immigrate to America as in the past. The number has continually decreased since 1990.
B) Ones that move to America end up returning after making money
C) Why move to America & travel states if you can work in Europe & travel countries
D) Non-educated & poverty stricken Asians & South Americans immigrate to America now
EM_Wave 9 | 310
25 Feb 2012 #40
Not nearly as many Europeans immigrate to America as in the past. The number has continually decreased since 1990.

Still a significant amount do.

Ones that move to America end up returning after making money

Many of the European girls I've met want to get a green card.

Why move to America & travel states if you can work in Europe & travel countries

Why? Ask them. They keep coming here. I'm just telling you what I see. Although, one reason I hear a lot is that Europeans are attracted to American universities.
MarcinD 4 | 135
25 Feb 2012 #41
Yeah, I mean being an exchange student is the best. An American college education still holds water (unlike K-12) and obviously is more appealing to European companies, as is a European education here.

The creation of the European Union was the final nail in the coffin. I'm sure many Poles also prefer to work in England vs America, which is basically a brown mans country. I'm not saying I agree with that reasoning or calling Poles racist but I do believe that plays in the minds of some.
polishmama 3 | 279
25 Feb 2012 #42
Wow, MarcinD, reading your replies, I have to say you were very articulate and hit the nail on the head, so to speak. I agree wholeheartedly, I just don't like to say it because I get labeled Anti-American. Or like my American husband likes to call me, a Commie. But then, he also thinks I'm one because I buy organic food, shop local businesses and didn't know who George Jones was until the Grammys the other day which he put on (seriously, why does a man watch that sort of thing? I thought it was for women who like to gossip?). I love America. I do. Sometimes, I think I love America more than other Americans because I want to actually pay attention to politicians and make sure I vote in someone who will screw the country over the least and I actually pay attention to American history, etc. But, it isn't what my parents thought it would be, for sure.
Crow 160 | 9305
25 Feb 2012 #43
Do people with at least second generation polish ancestry in a foreign western country feel ashamed of their polish descent?

See? that`s exactly the reason why we Serbians coming to support Poles. Destine of Racowie is to fight for Poland

We know who Poles are. Poles are of noble spirit. Elite forced (!) to accept life in defeat and humiliation. Only restored power of one new Commonwealth may save Poles. Commonwealth that would be based on Slavic (read Sarmatian) heritage, as it is EU founded on greek-roman-jewish-anglo-germanic heritage. In Commonwealth where would Polish language exist as main official language and where Krakow could be Capital city in the center of new (old) emerging European power. Such a Commonwealth guaranties interests of us all

Sarmats to awake!
Polonius3 983 | 12333
25 Feb 2012 #44
Unlike those ashamed of or uncomfortable with their Polish heritage, I have always been proud of it and have even felt superior compared to other American kids. Even something as basic as getting presents right after Wigilia supper, when the poor 200% American kids had to wait till Christmas morning, made me feel privileged. And the lavish Polish-American wedding outshone the cheap low-key affairs of many Heinz 57s (the term for WASP-imitating Americans) serving just champagne and gummy little canapés.

Being raised bilingually went beyond knowing a second language, it was more like seeing the world with an extra pair of eyes. My monoglot classmates were poorer for that lack of linguistic and cultural breadth. When I began studying German 101 many of them couldn't fathom why it had to be 'für dich'. If for is für and you is du, then shouldn't it be just für du? That was the normal way of things for anyone familiar with declensions and conjugations.

When I paid my first visit to Poland back in the PRL era, I quickly realised that the average Polish ‘maturzysta’ could run intellectual circles round the average American high school senior, and that held true for other classes and groups as well. Poles were far more interested in and curious about the world they lived in regardless of the iron curtain. As a state, Poland has had a relatively good track record in victimological terms. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth’s lack of colonialisation and relatively low victim body count compares favourably with the rapacious Western countries. And the tradition of struggle 'for your freedom and ours' is another thing to be proud of. These are but a handful of spot impressions, but books could be written on the subject.
Harry
25 Feb 2012 #45
I have always been proud of it and have even felt superior compared to other American kids.

So you consider yourself to be an ubermenschen, how surprising.
delphiandomine 87 | 18070
25 Feb 2012 #46
Of course he is.

Unlike those ashamed of or uncomfortable with their Polish heritage, I have always been proud of it and have even felt superior compared to other American kids.

Superior based on what?

Even something as basic as getting presents right after Wigilia supper, when the poor 200% American kids had to wait till Christmas morning, made me feel privileged.

Yet on Christmas Day, while the other kids were getting to play with their presents, you had nothing to get up for.

And the lavish Polish-American wedding

You mean the "dreadful, tasteless, over the top display of garishness and debt"?

outshone the cheap low-key affairs of many Heinz 57s (the term for WASP-imitating Americans) serving just champagne and gummy little canapés.

Heinz 57? That certainly fits in with your

ubermenschen

ideals.

. And the tradition of struggle 'for your freedom and ours' is another thing to be proud of.

You mean the same way that 2 million Poles collaborated with the PRL state?

Nice to know that you subscribe to the ideals of clean healthy living, racial purity and so on.
Gustav 1 | 50
25 Feb 2012 #47
Polonius3: And the lavish Polish-American wedding

You mean the "dreadful, tasteless, over the top display of garishness and debt"?

How many Polish-American weddings have you been to Michael?

Here we have a chap who is apparently proud of his ancestry- isn't that something to celebrate rather than attack?
delphiandomine 87 | 18070
25 Feb 2012 #48
When it's used as a stick to beat others with, it's certainly not something to celebrate.

Calling someone "Heinz 57" is about as ridiculous as it gets, especially when it comes from the mouth of someone who is likely to be a bit of a ethnic mongrel anyway.
Polonius3 983 | 12333
25 Feb 2012 #49
I didn't really get into the culinary field, but back when contiguous Polish neighbourhoods existed food quality and eating habits were way above the Heinz 57 level. You had to go to a Polish bakery to get real bread with a shiny crackly crust, a pleasantly rye-tinged aroma and a nice springy body on the inside, instead of that hideous cotton fluff stuff Anglos call 'white bread'. Same with meat -- the Anglos tucked in tonnes of pre-minced suety hamburger in every size, shape and form -- burgers, casseroles, Hamburger Helper, chili soup, etc. -- and opted for supermarket solid meat sealed in cellophane and styrofoam. At the Polish meat market, the customer could inspect all sides of the meat, chat wioth the butcher and get exactly what he wanted and PolAm shoppers were willing to pay a bit more for the better quality and more personalised service.
delphiandomine 87 | 18070
25 Feb 2012 #50
It was all rather nice until you woke up, wasn't it Polonius?

but back when contiguous Polish neighbourhoods existed food quality and eating habits were way above the Heinz 57 level.

Will you stop with that Heinz 57 reference? It's rather strange to call others that when Poland was about as ethnically diverse as it gets.

You had to go to a Polish bakery to get real bread with a shiny crackly crust, a pleasantly rye-tinged aroma and a nice springy body on the inside, instead of that hideous cotton fluff stuff Anglos call 'white bread'.

I've just been on a small tour of Europe and Poland is hardly unique when it comes to bread.

You clearly haven't seen the Polish masses in McDonalds.
Gustav 1 | 50
25 Feb 2012 #51
I'm not sure how trying to negate everything a poster writes has anything to do with this thread, where the chap is discussing Polish Ancestry

You could start a thread 'Explaining my bigoted views towards Polish-Americans' to deal with your own issues, no?
thebadmonkey 2 | 71
25 Feb 2012 #52
You do know taste differs across different nations? Hell I like Polish bread, doesn't make it any better or worse than others in Europe. To each their own.
Polonius3 983 | 12333
25 Feb 2012 #53
I am speaking aboutnot Poland but Polish America or the US Polonia back when contuiguous Polish neighbourhoods existed. And I was comparing stateside PolAms to mainstream Anglos. or run-of-the-mill WASP types or WASP wannabes.

I agree that tastes differ, but cotton fluff stuff has absioltuely no redeeming qualities. Oh sorry, it has two: it's cheap and does a good job shining boots, better than a flannel cloth!
Sterling
25 Feb 2012 #54
No were not ashamed about it, and we will never be. I mean there are negative stereotypes about it for ex. we are stupid, we are thieves, we are a bunch of intoxicated savages who beat their wife day in day out etc. to me when someone starts talking about stuff like that... spewing out a whole bunch of nonsense I laugh not because its funny but rather because it represents how much of an idiot a person is because they are making their judgement based on what "other people" have told them and they are too lazy research and make up their own minds.

See? that`s exactly the reason why we Serbians coming to support Poles. Destine of Racowie is to fight for Poland
Sarmats to awake!

First of all you Serbians when you had an army decided to go and kill, rape, and genocide based killing of Croatians... who by the way are like our little brothers and sisters, so don't come over here telling me about how much Serbs love Poland because if the Serbs loved Poland you would have treated the Croatians like human beings. About the whole Racowie thing calm down because it happened in the 1500s give it a rest because its not like your gonna pull out your saber and horse and recreate the cavalry. Your call for the restoration of the commonwealth is nothing more than a cry for help to save the crumbling nation of Serbia, and this alleged Commonwealth that you speak of does not serve our interest we are happy just where we are at.
pawian 224 | 24573
25 Feb 2012 #55
Some are ashamed, some are proud.

Some wear such t-shirts, some don`t.

The same with other nationalities. Some Germans proudly wear this stuff, others are ashamed.

s
PrawdziwyPolak
25 Feb 2012 #56
No one living in what is still called Poland today can be ashamed of Polish ancestry simply because they don't have any authentic Polish ancestry to being with.

Only the living members and their descendants of the Polish diaspora from late 19th and early 20th century can genuinely lay claim to a true Polish heritage.

The inhabitants of what is still called Poland today cannot. "Real Poles" no longer live in what was once their ancestral homeland for they were either forced to flee to other countries or were exterminated in concentration camps and gulags. What replaced them was a mishmash of Germans, Russians or whomever else the authorities in Moscow decided to relocate there. All of these new Soviet migrants were fully paid up members of Judeo-Bolshevik ideology.

The fake Poles living in what is still called Poland today can never escape or deny their Soviet past. It has and forever will shape who and what they are.

Just look at things objectively.

Fact: Only countries can join the UN.

Fact: Poland joined the UN as a country on October 24th, 1945.

Fact: Poland was a Soviet nation in 1945.

Fact: Joseph Stalin established what is today the fixed borders of an area of land that is still called Poland. That makes Joseph Stalin its founding father.

Soviet Poland only existed separately simply to give their direct relations in the USSR and in neighboring Soviet states more voting power in the UN.

The people living in Soviet Poland may have spoken Polish but ethnically and ideologically they were not genuine Poles.

Fast forward to the present and it is undeniable that the current mongrel occupiers of Poland have as much claim to it as do the carpetbagging Khazars who stole the land from the Palestinians while falsely claiming an unbroken link to the ancient Hebrew tribes who once roamed those lands.

No person who speaks Polish in what is still called Poland today can claim to be an ethnic Pole. Anyone can learn Polish even in the schools of what is still called Poland today but that will never make them a true Pole.

Your so-called Polish passport only shows that that is the undeserved name used by the artificial post-Soviet entity you are currently living in and that your post-Soviet government there represents you and your fellow Soviet stained citizens.

As I've already pointed out all the real Poles of a bygone generation were forced out of Poland or perished trying to save it. The millions of fake Poles today are leaving voluntarily in their droves to other countries because they do not and cannot identify with Poland as a nation state and its history prior to 1945. For the fake Poles, Poland is just a name of an area of land which is no different from any other. They would much rather live in and help develop other countries rather than the one they were born in. These same fake Poles also do not mind illegal immigration into what is still called Poland because it is reminiscent of how their own relatives got there starting in 1945.
pawian 224 | 24573
25 Feb 2012 #57
Stop this extremist Jewish antiPolish rant, OK? I have nothing against Jews but you are exceeding all f...ing limits with that stupid provocation of yours! Be off!
PennBoy 76 | 2432
25 Feb 2012 #58
"Real Poles" no longer live in what was once their ancestral homeland for they were either forced to flee to other countries or were exterminated in concentration camps and gulags.

HAHA please seek treatment.
pawian 224 | 24573
25 Feb 2012 #59
childs of European/Western civilization. That's the dominant mod inherited by succeeding generations.

It has been so since Poland adopted Christianity of Western denomination in 966 and has kept it till today despite stormy times. Poles forget they are Slavs and tend to think of themselves as Europeans.
Sarmat
25 Feb 2012 #60
PrawdziwyPolak, did your rabid rabbi tell you that? It must be so, explains the presence of Polish Jews to a tee in present day Poland. What you have failed to understand is that this is a modern history of your own kind residing here. Really, there’s nothing more I can add here or take away for that matter from a perfectly sound presentation you have worked so hard on.


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