Polish qualifications, what are they worth ?

This is true. Perhaps the 'Magister' degree should be renamed. Or British degrees renamed instead, inflationary though that sounds.

I don't know from where and how you guys get reference to such statements. But for me it is hard to agree as I have experienced otherwise.

A 2:1 degree is needed to enter postgraduate studies. Only under exceptional circumstances will sb with a 2:2 be permitted to study at the postgraduate level.

100% true but I don't know from where they get the reference that a Licencjat is needed to be enrolled in a British BA degree and a Magister is needed to get enrolled in a British Masters degree.

I am a Research Fellow at a Scottish University and I have never heard of this before. Infact, all the Polish students who are doing Masters have completed their Licenjat in Poland and all the undergraduate students have a matura from polish high school.

I donot know about the old Polish education system, but contemporarily, Licencjat = British Undergraduate Degree & Magister = British Masters Degree.

So you got straight onto your BA immediately after you finished compulsory education? Impressive. Most people have to do two years of college before they go to English university. But don't count those eh?

I believe there should be some kind of access requirement, if possible. There are inherent impracticalities in giving so many people access courses or interviews to test their competence. My mum did one back in the day. I feel that, in the great majority of cases, the criteria and requirements for taking Poles on is relaxed given their willingness to work for less. Employers don't look too deeply into qualifications in most industries, they look for a cost-effective candidate.

Harry, can't you see what he is saying? Yes, we go straight from compulsory (secondary) education in Scotland. Tertiary education doesn't involve a mandatory college step for us. People can study HNCs or, if they are a little better, HNDs. An HND will allow transfer to a degree under certain conditions. We can and often do go straight into degrees from secondary school. I and many others did.

If you see most countries' education there is a 12-year schooling period before university. Since we were talking about international context, I presumed you counted A Level as schooling as well.

If you did Standard Grade as School +5 years (Two Years at college level AND Three Years Ordinary Bachelors) - then I agree, you might have spent five years for a BA.

Otherwise, in Higher Education terms BA is still 3 or 4 years.

Bologna is right here when talking about Scotland. In my case, there was a 13-year schooling period with the option of only 11. 11 is compulsory, or was in my day.

It isn't even confined to Highers either. Highers can take 1 year to get 5 A's. We have (or had) Sixth Year Studies (SYS), done only in the sixth year (as the name would suggest).

Yes and there are many universities who allow students completing HND to the third year of their Degree programme - sometimes called the "Top Up" Award.

This way a good student from Standard Grade can finish his BA Degree in 3 years after compulsory (secondary) education.

If you talk about England & Wales, student who have finished their GCSEs can enroll in Foundation Degree (FdSc, FdA) for 2 years and transfer to 3rd yr of a Degree programme. This way a student can also get the BA (Hons) in 4 years after GCSE.

That's how I remember it. It means that people don't waste time in doing a whole new course by allowing 3rd-year entry. There needs to be inbuilt flexibility in not punishing those that didn't do well enough in their Highers. Legal courses are the prime example. You push people off down a certain road and it takes many years for them to get a few letters. For example, I know people who did the BA (Hons) in Law and Management like I did (having to study Revenue Law and Conveyancing in the 4th year) and then needed to do their LLB from the 2nd year. The good thing about an LLB is that Hons are not expected so 2 years can be enough (years 2 and 3). You can do your DipLP (1 year) after that and then it's yet another 18 months with a law firm. They are trying to change it through professional recognition but it is a time-consuming process.

Yes, in England kids start at four and finish at 16. Twelve years. Perhaps the Scottish education system should pay more attention to maths.

thats interesting

from what you are saying it seems to suggest that a student can get a degree - BA Hons - in four years after GCSE rather than following the more traditional route of A levels + degree - 2+3

is this correct?

However my whole point point is, some Polish qualifications can be (or are) of less quality, but this doesn't mean that all the Polish qualification can be tarred with the same brush.

And officially Licencjat = British Undergraduate Degree & Magister = British Masters Degree (but Refer to my post #95)

And if the above statement is wrong, then the Polish students are studying in the UK illegally or the British Universities' Admissions Departments & the UCAS has absolutely NO IDEA in what they are doing and are taking students with Polish matura to Undergraduate Degrees. (similarly, students with Polish Licencjat to Postgraduate Degrees)

im clearly confused

on completion of GCSEs you can take a Foundation programme for 2 years and then transfer to the third year of a Degree programme - this would suggest a total of 3 years (?)

Exactly, thereeyougo. It's 4 years to get a BA (Hons) after secondary school.

You can enter college if your Higher grades are not that great, do an HND (Higher National Diploma) for 2 years, then transfer to the 3rd year of a degree. It is surprising that this can be done but HNDs can be quite tricky and are a step up from GCSEs.

it took me 3 years to get my BA (Hons)

That's odd. 3 years BA, 1 year Hons in Scotland. The Hons year is critical in determining entry to postgrad studies.

ok, so thats not entirely true - i didnt complete my BA but transfered to an MA in my second year - had i continued with the BA programme i would have completed within 3 years with an optional 4th as work experience

Seanus, usually it is 3 Years BA and 4 years BA(Hons). But using some universities who offer top up award as BA(Hons), this can be done as 3 years.

For example, if you graduate with good grades in HND from Stow College (and some other colleges) in Glasgow, you can join the "Top Up" year at University of the West of Scotland or Glasgow Metropolitan University (and a few other universities).

This "top up" is 1 year long and when you graduate you will have a BA(Hons).

Total time = 2 yrs HND + 1 yr Top Up = 3 yrs BA(Hons)

Furthermore, you can join Masters programme which will last for 1 year.
This way, you can see that 3 qualifications can be completed in a period of 4 years, viz, HND, BA(Hons), MA.

It depends on the degree but my work experience was in my 3rd year. The 4th (Hons) year is more intensive. I had to do regular essays, attend lectures and do a dissertation over the whole year. It sounds easy but there are checking posts where your supervisor insists on you producing x amount of words by x date. It is actually harder in some ways than how it was for my LLM thesis. They give you 3 months to do your thesis after the completion of 2 semesters (terms). It is not mixed with anything, just a straight 3 months unlike the dissertation in the undergrad which is done over the whole year.

Bologna, I meant 3+1, not that Honours was somehow a separate course. 4 years in total, BA (3) and Hons (1).

this seems an amazing contrast to a more traditional route -

Total time = 2 yrs A levels + 3 yrs degree + 1 yrs hons - 6 yrs (?)


so in the UK its possible to graduate with a BA (hons) at 19?

Seanus - i believe the Hons component of the BA programme was in the for of a dissertation, thesis, project, whatyouwill

In Scotland, it would depend on your birthday. I finished mine when I was 20 or 21. I started when I was 17 so 21 it would have been, more or less. My birthday is in Oct and thus near the start time of the year. My LLM was completed when I was 22 (Sep) but I graduated when I was 23 (Nov).

No, the dissertation is done throughout/over the year. The thesis is done separately given its magnitude.

I will give you an example.

Stow College
HND Accounting = 2 years
Entry reruirement: Ideally 1 Higher Grade pass which should demonstrate good communication skills.

stow.ac.uk/courses/coursedetails.php?ccode=HNCDACC&cmode=FT

University of West of Scotland
BA Business Studies = 1 Year
Entry requirement: Year 3 Entry with an HND in an appropriate subject.

uws.ac.uk/courses/ug-courseinfo.asp?courseid=706

University of West of Scotland
Postgraduate Diploma Financial Services = 8 months FT
Entry requirement: Candidates for the Postgraduate Diploma should normally possess an Ordinary degree.

Diploma students who satisfy the progression requirements will then be eligible to pursue the MSc.

uws.ac.uk/courses/pg-courseinfo.asp?courseid=528

MSc = PG Diploma + Dissertation (ie, 8 months + 4 months)

Total Time taken to get a MSc Degree in Financial Services starting with a HND Accounting = 4 years.

The above was for illustration purposes only.

haha - none of it actually seems clear cut - as i say, i didnt ever complete a 1st degree programme so am not really sure what i am talking about.

my experiences would also suggest that the british education has a level of, perhaps unofficial, flexability that allows for people to step out of the norms

i was able to tranfer to an MA half way though a BA because i was a mature student with considerable work experience - i saw a number of international students take unorthadox routes through their studies (BA to Phd) for similar reasons

Yes but our discussion here was about the time taken to attain a degree, doesnt matter if it is clear cut or otherwise.

I was trying to show that one can get a MSc Degree in 4 years after passing school.

yes, you are right and i am sorry to butt in to your discussion

It's not really butting in as it should be about Polish qualifications. We just wanted to get some things straightened out.

Phasic, please read this post as well.

See Nottingham University Information for Students from Poland : nottingham.ac.uk/internationaloffice/prospective-students/your-country/poland.aspx#ug


The above case is similar to British graduates, if they have a good BA(Hons) they "can" gain direct entry to Phd but mostly this is difficult and they study Masters and then enter to Phd.

Which is why I said, may be the older Polish qualifications weren't as know and I know nothing about it BUT now-a-days, the case is different.

It seems you have a vested interest in manipulating the truth. I repeat, as others have and will, that a Polish Magister is not the equivalent of a British Masters'. Did you check out the UK government's policy as implemented by NARIC?

Hold on, jonni. When you say British, you include Scotland, England and Wales. In ancient universities in Scotland, like Aberdeen for example, an MA (Hons) is an undergraduate degree. Is it still a Masters? Yes, a Master of Arts. You have to qualify what you say. Yes, some things are implied when writing to those 'in the know' but some aren't in this loop.