I am surprised at how few immigrants there are in Poland.
Is this due to the Polish wanting to keep their culture and not have their towns changed by the influx?
Do Polish employers prefer to give jobs to Polish people
bbc.co.uk/news/20714006 "Poland is Europe's least multicultural society"
theguardian.com/world/2007/dec/12/poland.helenpidd Compared to the hundreds of thousands of Polish here,..only "around 2,500 Britons are currently living and working in Poland"
I am surprised at how few immigrants there are in Poland.
Most of the "immigrants" in the UK are Muslims and don't come from overseas.
Is this due to the Polish wanting to keep their culture and not have their towns changed by the influx?
Partly but mostly Poland already has enough cab drivers and 7/11 owners. A good leader like Poland has, takes care of their own first nor do they care for Muslims and their faith.
Do Polish employers prefer to give jobs to Polish people
Yes because the money they earn stays in Poland and not sent back home to support families in a foreign country.
Compared to the hundreds of thousands of Polish here,..only "around 2,500 Britons are currently living and working in Poland"
That is because the Polish are a much more smarter bunch in learning the English language then the Brit.'s are in learning the Polish language. The Brit.'s are use to the silver spoon (tarnishing fast) and the Polish are use to hard work making adapting much easier for them.
I wonder what the Polish, here in the UK, would think if UKIP was voted in (It won't be) and had the same ideology as their polish politicians have.
It seems like the Polish want to keep their nations' culture and history intact, which , of course , they should. ...and would not like the mass of immigration that the UK has seen, to happen to them.
I am not attacking the Polish, at all. I would do the same, if the opportunity arose. ...but you can see the difference and discrepancy in our 2 nations acceptance of multi-multiculturalism and immigrants? and why some of the population here are saying enough immigration, already !
A thought experiment... If the UK people were harder workers and cheaper than the Poles, would the polish people in Poland accept them en masse, as readily as we have ? I think not. I also think the UK has been very foolish & has lost its identity, as has most of western europe.
Just for information, this is a party called UKIP , a newish, political party in the UK, which has sent tremors through the 2 main parties youtube.com/watch?v=s_emzKlbUJk
What is the point of this post?.... it is mainly for me to put my thoughts down and clarify them. Also to lament a time of how ttowns and villages were in my younger days, .
It is our politicians fault and no blame can be placed on the immigrants themselves, at all.
Dave the main point here you are missing is that Poland isn't in a state as yet in which heaps of western people will want to be in. It is wip, doing great but much to be done. Secondly UK has had its commonwealth and immigrants for ever and they are used to these foreigners for most part. One good reason not to let them in is for people in other EU countries. If they do arrive they will have huge employment and language problems and be totally unemployable. They will use the freedom of movement to end up in places like the UK on welfare and so on where they can find others like them well established and get by with english language. Sending those people to Poland is sending them to the other EU countries just with a delay. I doubt this will be true in the future but how long all this will take is a hard one.
yes, a valid point, however, that was why I posed it as a thought experiment... "A thought experiment... If the UK people were harder workers and cheaper than the Poles, would the polish people in Poland accept them en masse, as readily as we have ?"
I wanted to know what the likely response would be by the Poles...would they be up in arms?
I wonder if the EU could have a table of different tiers for movement based on GDP. Just like football teams have leagues, people from the EU can move across countries with similar GDPs which would stop the currency drain out of the richer countries.
As the EU is allowing free movement, surely the access to welfare, housing etc should be standard too across countries. and the English could arrive in Poland, in their hundreds of thousands to set up camp.
The stupidity of the English system becomes crystal clear, and that of course is another reason , why we have so many immigrants here.
I think the richer countries will, as we are seeing, start voting in Nationalist parties to stem the flow. It is obviously a major concern of the locals, as all parties are being forced to address the issue, because of the popularity of UKIP.
For the record, I am an irish immigrant, and have been an immigrant to other countries in europe and australia, so I can fully understand why people come.... but as a "native", I can also fully understand why people want to stop too many immigrants coming in.
In all honesty, I think it is too late, and the UK has become a melting pot.
So, I am looking to emigrate myself & become an immigrant elsewhere...but not in the EU, which is becoming a super state of lost nationalities
or maybe to poland, to become the 2nd britain there claiming dole (I imagine this report is out of date) ;) theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/19/-sp-search-for-only-briton-poland-claiming-benefits
I can't imagine it will be impossible to find a job there for an irish guy. I was referring to unskilled migrants from africa or middle east. but yeah would not be easy. Its not just about working hard and for less. Its about getting ditched again after ww2 and left with the bloodsuckers and now not having any hope that this won't happen again. Also not having 100% trust in allied help should more trouble arise. I am certainly not here because of jobs or work my parents came here because they consider the ussr a derranged backward cess pit and in their minds it's a matter of time before they start something again. When I ask about allied countries they laugh and certainly do not believe in such things. Recent history has provided poles with many reasons to leave not just one.
So when reversing roles for your theory you can't apply just economic reasons if you did you would be wrong a lot.
Do Polish employers prefer to give jobs to Polish people
To answer your first question, no. More to do with high unemployment meaning that most immigration is by people with highly specialised skills or by business people.
To answer your second question, the answer is that relatives and friends of people who work in the labour exchange hear about the vacancies first. Also, they employ the cheapest regardless of nationality. That and the fact that relatively few foreigners speak Polish.
thos is a party called UKIP
They know about those clowns in Poland and have their own too - but people are generally too sensible to give them the time of day.
and the UK has become a melting pot
None the worse for that. Poland was similarly a 'melting pot' until relatively recently and it won't be any bad as that returns. As is happening slowly but steadily now.
if so few immigrants in Poland, it is simply because Poland is not attractive and immigrants prefer rich west. Only 10% of people in Poland make 6,000 ZL or more per month (only 1% of Polish taxpayers are in the highest bracket), which is the minimum in most western countries. On top of that, western countries generally provide generous welfare systems. The huge majority of foreigners in Poland are not "immigrants"; they temporarity work for foreign employers or are native language teachers who don't really settle in Poland.
Yes, it's the money that's the biggest factor - it isn't as easy to make a good living and there isn't the same social safety net. I'd disagree about language teachers not settling though. You'd be surprised how many have married and had kids in PL and are there for the duration. Some for 20+ years already and I can think of a couple who've been there since PRL days.
There are a few foreign-born doctors in PL, a larger French community than one might expect, a few people from Cuba, a thriving Vietnamese community, an Indian community in the south of Warsaw as well as a growing population from Turkey and parts of the Arab world especially running small businesses.
The official stats aren't reliable since the national census is taken inefficiently, immigrants from certain counties often instinctively avoid officialdom where possible and in any case Poland being in Schengen means the borders are more fluid.
@Jon; as to the French community in Poland (which I know very well), 99% are expats and if married to Polish women, they work for French companies or have their own businesses and usually are rich. Such people are not called 'immigrants" since not in Poland because of poverty in their country. Sure some native teachers marry and settle in Poland but althogether what's the % of foreigners really living in Poland (I am not talking about expats who stay for a couple of years)? I am sure it's not even 2%. As to the Vietnamese, they came during communism as "students" and have remained. Except maybe North Korea, in ALL countries there are foreigners but if we talk about Poland, the % is very very low and most probably one of the lowest in all Europe.
Someone who has settled permanently in another country is very much an immigrant. It may not sound as posh as expat (generally meaning a temporary resident, there for work only), but that's the way it is.
as to the French community in Poland (which I know very well)
In that case we almost certainly have friends in common.
99% are expats
Many of the expats left due to the economic downturn at home. Those French who have stayed are the immigrants, with homes and families in PL
Sure some native teachers marry and settle in Poland but althogether
More than just 'some', really quiet a lot. That's how I originally came to PL all those years ago, as a language trainer to senior army officers.
but althogether what's the % of foreigners really living in Poland
In the capital and certain other places, probably more than you think.
@Jon: trust me (I know): 99.99% of the French in Warsaw, when settling because of Polish spouses, do belong to high "bourgeoisie" and in France have a very high standard but I know rich French love complaining with their mouths full. Please note that those French living in Poland do get scholarships to attend French schools and also family financial support from the French State althogh they usually pay their tax in Poland. Last week, someone told me about a French family of 3 kids in Warsaw getting 700 euros/month from France. They continue receiving help from their home country so not really "immigrants" or rather "immigrés de luxe"
@Johnny Reb: why should Britons (and other westerners) learn Polish?
@Jon: also the French in Poland subscribe to CFE (Caisse des Français de l'Etranger) and thus have all their medical bills (including médications) reimbursed by the French system, obviously much more generous than ... NFZ/ZUS itd... Therefore, such people who live on welfare from their home country (scholarships, family allowances.....) cannot be considered as "immigrants". An immigrant starts new life abroad and does not expect their home country to keep subsidizing them in new country ;).
Of all the French people I know and spend time with in Warsaw, I can't think of even one who is on benefits. I do however know people who have been here for years and will probably never leave. In short, immigrants.
@Jon: after the 2nd child, French families receive family allowances (amount varies according to ages) each month and I know a lot of French families in Poland who do (normal since they are eligible) Furthermore, they can receive scholarships to send their kids to French (gymnazjum + lyceum) schools and also French schools abroad are subsidized by France so "cheap" tuition. They also subscribe to CFE so they can have French benefits when sick and also when they retire... Obviously you don't know many French people here and they don't tell you about their situation and also you don't know the French system. Trust me, most French when "living" abroad keep the French welfare system. Sorry, but immigrants live by the new country's rules and don't expect their home country to sponsor them like all those French do. I doubt that Britons, Germans, Americans or others expect Britain, Germany, the US, or other to keep them on welfare while living abroad ;). Another "French particularity", welfare to all and around the world ;)
I think you're mixing different sorts of people (and taking the thread off topic. We aren't talking here about French expats who pay equalised taxation and are posted here by their companies. We are talking about immigrants, here for the duration, not the bods from Varsovie Acceuil etc. There are more than you evidently know.
Yes, there are French people who still have one foot there metaphorically, however more than you evidently realise don't. There's even a whole generation who've grown up here.
@Jon; I know the French system very well (lived in France over 20 years) and I know a lot of French people here, including "immigrants", who settled here because of Polish spouses. They work with French companies on local contracts or they have their own businesses (not only restaurants, bakeries..) and although they don't pay tax to France (normal), they continue receiving welfare (scholarships to send their kids to French schools, allowances when more than 2 kids) and also usually they subscribe to CFE(I guarantee almost all do;)) so French benefits when they get sick and they retire. All this is legal so why would they refuse any financial support if they are eligible? ;). I personally think it"s wrong but this is the situation and therefore such people are not really "immigrants" to Poland since they continue being sponsored by their home country. I am talking about families (most often Franco-Polish since wives are Polish) who have "settled" in Poland not about typical expats sent here for 2 or 3 years and on French contrats). Since obviously you don't know about the French system, no need to discuss further and let's stick ti Polish-Polish 'problems" ;)
I guess it would have to be something like that, as Johnny has no experience whatsoever in Poland or England. How could statistics account for comments like Brits having a silver spoon in their mouth? You live there. How many aristocrats do you know?
probably statistics
Are you Johnny's agent?
I personally know a Polish/French couple who bought a house in France on benefits, then sold it. How about that? Rent free for years, then a huge cash prize at the end.
and I know a lot of French people here, including "immigrants", who settled here because of Polish spouses.
By no means all of them work for French companies or operate the sort of businesses you mention, Guest Poster...
In any case, someone who retains a financial link to their country of origin can still be called an immigrant - that term doesn't mean you have to sever all ties. I have a pension in my home country for example but have always been an immigrant and never an expat in PL. An Indian or Pakistani may well own real estate back in their country of origin and nobody would question that they're an immigrant. A Polish person who moved to the U.S. and never returned may have a pension and real estate in Poland.
You'll find that the situation is far less black and white than you think. Anyway, the thread is more about overseas workers rather than people higher up in society. Very few Europeans migrate to Poland for basic jobs.
I personally know a Polish/French couple who bought a house in France on benefits, then sold it. How about that? Rent free for years, then a huge cash prize at the end.
We'll find this happening in a few years in the UK among Poles who exercise right-to-buy however conditions in Poland mean that it's not likely to happen among overseas workers in Poland.
In the yUK the horse is already out of the gate and look at the mess they have now. Poland has learned from England's libral stupidity and don't want the same endless welfare drain to Poland's economy. Once Poland's economy takes off the immigration will reverse and the Brit's will be begging jobs in Poland.
it is mainly for me to put my thoughts down and clarify them.
You need to work on it. Not that it wasn't cleverly done. However to understand more about the way the world is working you need to devote some more time to study that problem.
this is a party called UKIP
Is the party that is being run by a guy who said that traffic jams on the M5 are there due to the influx of immigrants? I understand now that politicians all over the world are by and by a sad bunch but to exchange an inept dullard for a an inept cretin will not solve any problems.
