Finnish graduate (master in industrial management) looking for a career start in Poland

Hi all,

since I couldn't find a suitable thread, I decided to open up new one. I'm graduating in couple of months as a master in industrial management and have a strong interest to gain international experience in Poland for 2-3 years in BPO/SSC of western MNC before moving back to my home or another western country.

I'm in my mid-20s and have worked beside of my studies (holiday season full-time, during a term part-time) as a trainee in couple of MNCs in Finland and currently I'm writing my master thesis for one of the biggest Finnish companies. Through my previous positions I've gained experience in accounting, sales support, purchasing and organizational development. I don't know any other languages than English and Finnish, even though I understand Swedish slightly, especially in written.

I'm asking, what sort of position I can expect to have and how much should I ask for salary for positions I'm qualified? How much more I can require salary for positions asking a fluent Finnish vs. positions, where only language required is English?

I would be relocating alone, so I'd have no need to provide any other person than myself. Moreover it's to be noted that I'd probably to get entry-level/specialist job in Finland too and being paid for 3.000 € in a month gross. The reason why I consider Poland as my next move is to gain aforementioned experience and hopefully faster career progression.

Best Regards

Hyvaa paiivaa!

A knowledge of Polish would be nice as well. Again, Swedish, certainly Finnish, even English alone, will scarcely be of much value in everyday life in Poland:-)

marekzgersonb@yahoo

You'd be lucky to get a third of that in Poland, and possibly only a quarter. Quite honestly, you don't seem to have any particular skills or experience that would make you attractive on the job market except, perhaps, for the fact that you speak Finnish, which is a wild card.


It's hard for me to see how. Your time would be much better spent getting actual certification as an accountant in Finland, whether working full-time, part-time or not at all at the job you mentioned above. Or obtain some higher level certificate or degree that means something on the job market (according to real live people in your field that you know personally and have talked to face to face).

Come to Poland only if you can afford a year to totally goof off, totally or largely at your own expense, with little, if anything, in the way of return in terms of wages, savings, or professional advancement. Think of it as an extended vacation, and no more, and you won't be disappointed. If you expect anything more that fun, "adventure" and a possibly interesting experience, then you are likely to regret it.

Sorry, there's nothing in what you wrote that indicates that moving to Poland would be a wise career choice for you.


Missed this on the first read. Criminy, another poor sucker with a useless degree who could have studied engineering instead. Business and management masters degrees are worthless without abundant prior serious experience, and unless they come from a top school. Shoot the dork who advised you to go for that degree. He (or she, to be fair) did you a great disservice.

You might want to consider reschooling yourself as an engineer. It's not to late at all, and you will greatly increase your salability on the job market, as well as your lifetime earnings and savings potential, especially if you get a degree in a highly paid field such as petroleum, geological or biomedical engineering. If you want to stay in the business/finance realm, then get a useful degree in something math-intensive like financial engineering, financial mathematics, econometrics or actuarial science.

Math is money.

Some experience in accounting won't get you too far on the Polish job market. Your native language will though. As a Fin with some experience in accounting you would not have a problem finding a "decent" paid job in a SSC or BPO in Poland. With your native language being a fairly rare commodity in Poland, you should be able to achieve at least 7000 PLN gross. As a Fin you might want to try Kemira in Gdansk. I am sure you recognize the company name.

But you will also be able to find work in Warsaw, Krakow or Lodz. If the company is not able to offer you 7000 PLN or more, they should at least offer you a relocation package with a company apartment included. That would make up for the lower salary.

7000 PLN gross would be about 4800 PLN net. Not comparable to the 3000 EUR gross you would get in Finland but taking the considerable lower cost of living into consideration and the fact that you are single it is not a bad salary in Poland.

Your native language is a massive asset if you are looking to work for SSC or BPO in Poland. Unike the Spanish or French native speakers, you will be able to negotiate a higher salary even without or very little relevant experience. It is your language that they are after.

For once, JollyRomek, I agree with you, at least in the latter respect for sure!
Spot on:-)

FinnishFlash,

It is great to hear you have an interest in Poland. However, in terms of career development and progression Poland is probably one of the least logical choices I can think of within EU. If I were you I would stay away from developing markets altogether as it is most likely going to be a waste of time and effort and look at developed industries say in Germany/Switzerland/UK if Scandinavia is not appealing to you.

Finnish Master, apologies before but I misstyped my e-mail. It's marekzgerson@yahoo
We can chat in Swedish if you like too. Afraid my Finnish is very basic at this point:-)

Do you intend to learn Polish? It can only help your chances professionally.

Thanks for constructive feedback for all of you!

Dominic: Yes, my degree requires a lot of work experience before I can take full advantage of it. At least I'm in the same boat with my Finnish peers. On a side note, engineering graduates are less paid than business/management ones in Finland and are experiencing more severe unemployment than business graduates. But I'm sure you're referring to job markets in US, Germany and UK and my nice little story had nothing to do with it.

JollyRomek: Your answer is exactly what I was looking for! I acknowledge that my greatest, and probably the only one, asset in Polish job market would be my mother tongue, which I'd better to utilize. Do you have any insight of salaries how they vary between companies hiring native Finnish speakers e.g. Do Finnish companies (Kemira, UPM) tend to pay more than the non-Finnish companies (Infosys, HP, Capgemini), which have such positions open every now and then or vice versa?

Totti: I agree with you. But I think in order to get a job in one of the countries you mentioned I should have a few years of post-university work experience, which is not the case in Poland due to my language. Moreover, to have a equivalent job I'd have in Finland could be possible in Poland but not in any of developed western countries. I concede that currently I don't have any substantial skills such as programming or software development to offer in those of markets employers are craving for and I'm afraid they have oversupply of business/management graduates just like me. Altogether, at least from my point of view it looks like do I want to work in similar position such as accountant, buyer, supply chain planner etc. in Finland or in Poland.

Best Regards

Best of luck, Finnish flash:-)

FinnishFlash

I don't think that, if I understand your intentions correctly, after x numbers in Poland where, as you have admitted, knowledge of Finnish would be your major asset, would put you ahead as compared where you are now, simply because your focus would have shifted to a secondary qualification... It could be that by a streak of luck you end up in the right place at the right time. But, if we were to put the chance factor aside, with your fluent English and the right attitude and determination I would be looking in the UK in the first place, as the economy here is doing well at the present... I work in a consulting (engineering) environment, having worked in both countries, and the differences are just MASSIVE (in Poland's disfavour to be sure) not only in technical aspects, but what was most important to me the entire work organisation, culture and ethics level... One other great aspect of the British market is that it is so internationalised you would not feel very much out of place... I also think that British employers perhaps appreciate EU graduates v. those from exotic places... I have rambled on a bit too long... Overall, I think you would end up very disillusioned entering the Polish job market coming from a highly developed country such as Finland... But then again, if you feel you need to gamble, then maybe that's what you need to do. Good luck and please be sure to revisit - it would be great to hear from you on how you are getting on wherever you end up!

Totti: Those are great points you mentioned, I appreciate.

I've been sort of thinking that my only viable option to work abroad right after the graduation in a position, which requires higher degree in business/management, is Poland since their market is in search of native Finnish speakers. Basically I have never seen such positions being offered in any other countries. As an example I could mention a entry-level job as a supply chain planner at some MNC. I think that only X-factor I can bring up to the table in a search of such job is my language. I never have, and never will even consider to work in a position, such as customer service or help desk, requiring just a secondary qualification, just because of being located abroad and requiring fluent Finnish.

The reason why I haven't considered seriously richer western countries is the lack of substantial skills and experience, which would make me to stand out from the rest of applicants. I don't speak local language and even if it wasn't required, there are tons of recent graduates and young professionals with master's degree, some work experience during or after the university studies and a will to go for extra mile, and in UK they are native English speakers, which is not playing in my favor for sure. But you're right, perhaps I even then should give a try for job hunt in those of countries too.

I'll revisit and tell you how it panned out in few months :)

Fluency in nearly any language other than one's mother tongue can be and frequently is a major asset. To be honest, most Finns I've met spoke such excellent Swedish (albeit with a Finlandssvensk accent!) I never even bothered with either English or my rudimentary Finnish:-)

Usually, SSCs, Kemira for example, pay more than the by you mentioned BPOs such Infosys or Capgemini etc.

However, Infosys for example makes up for lower pay rate by providing company apartments to foreigners who relocate to Lodz from abroad.

So let's assume they would pay you 5000 PLN plus company apartment for which you do not have to pay rent, you are again looking at 7000 (5000 + ca. 2000 you would have to earn if you would have to pay the rent) .

I am not sure if Capgemini or HP offer something similar.

Wonder whether Nokia has offices in Poland:-)

Hi,

ok, it's good to hear that they would compensate presumably lower salary in a way you mentioned.

Nokia has the European Centre of Engineering and Software in Wroclaw, but as the name indicates it has not much to offer for a job seeker like me.

I know a Finnish woman in Warsaw who has a Polish parent (forget which) and came to Poland to work as a translator, as her Polish is pretty much native speaker standard. The company she now works for paid her to (and paid for her to) retrain and become a Polish-qualified accountant, because it was quicker and easier for them to train a speaker of Finnish to be a Polish-qualified accountant than to teach a Polish-qualified accountant to speak fluent Finnish.

Usually irrelevant in SSCs in Poland but ok. Awareness of the different accounting structures helps but is usually not required if you can make up for it by language skills.

Jobs such as EU-translators. resp. interpreters are paid quite handsomely. Polish, Swedish, English? Quite a nice array of languages, I should think.

Anyway Nokia doesn't seem in a great shape, I don't think they'd be hiring anyone. See this article for example.
thestar.com.my/Tech/Tech-News/2015/07/21/Lines-go-silent-in-Finnish-town-of-Salo-as-Microsoft-shuts-Nokia-phone-unit

Hi Selänne,

I work in Kemira Gdansk. If you want, you can send your cv to me and I give it straight to our HR.
They will check it and come back to you, if they have suitable position.

Mail: teesii@outlook.

Merged: Moving to Lodz, Poland - Job expectations, dificulties, salaries / continuing studies in another Master

Hello,

I am new in these forums and I am seeking help.

I am planning to move abroad to Lodz in September. I am graduating in the Master in Industrial Engineering and Management and I am seeking jobs in this area in that city. This Master comprises not only Production Engineering courses, but also Information System courses so supposedly there is a wide job selection after it. Can anyone give me an idea about job possibilities in this area and salaries for entry level jobs considering I speak fluent portuguese and english and I am starting to learn polish? Is it realistic to hope to find a job in my field of studies in the first months of arrival?

I am also considering to apply to another masters in International Faculty of Engineering or University of Lodz in the Computer Science program to further my studies, as this would be a more secure way to not stop learning if I didn't get a job and would help to broaden my job possibilities. Any recommendation on this?

Any information provided is vital

Thank you very much!