Education in Poland - system and structure

well I was lazy and and often playing truant. I didn't get much from school but it was my fault in many cases.

Seanus wrote:


this is my impression of the polish school system as well. mindless memorization of things that you will either forget the day after you take the exam, or you remember it but have no practical use for it. obviously this is nothing more than an observation, i've never attended a polish school/uni but i'm always so surprised at what my students tell me they're studying.

It does come across that way at times. Too much mindless memorising of things rather than practically applying them can be detrimental. Just look at the Japanese and their system of rote learning. They have their heads constantly angled at a board without having much opportunity to speak. That's where private schools stepped in and gave them the chance to use it. Poland might be the same to a certain extent.

we have private schools in Poland. What's your point?

In Poland there 3 kinds of school:

- szkoły publiczne
- szkoły społeczne
- szkoły prywatne

My point is simply that more emphasis needs to be placed on speaking activities so that Poland can catch up with Scandinavians and Benelux countries. Poles do come across VERY strongly as being book based. If it isn't in the book, it's of lesser status or doesn't exist at all. That's retrograde thinking! I've tussled with many over the dubious content of some books. Poles need to get out of their 'book being the Bible' approach to learning and shake it up.

Yes we had so called work in groups tasks and it's bs. Waisting time.
I would rather suggest more logical problem solving than learning pure algebra + giving a speech exercise beacause Poles sucks when they are to give a public speech, presentation or say something in tv.

Memorisation? They cheat if they don't want to learn it anyway.

It's incredible for me that someone can be proud of a diploma that they cheated to obtain.


Oh yes. I had a rather splendid argument with a school director over this - he only shut up when I asked him why all the C1-C2 level books had totally different content and interpretations of what English was.

You could compare Polish education to Wikipedia - thorough, but flawed.

For anyone interested in actual data, there is something called the Programme for International Student Assessment

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment

They release annual reports on the level of education in a number of countries.
This year's report says that "Top-performing countries or economies in reading literacy include Hong Kong-China (with a mean score of 533), Singapore (526), Canada (524), New Zealand (521), Japan (520) and Australia (515). The Netherlands (508), Belgium (506), Norway (503), Estonia (501), Switzerland (501), Poland (500), Iceland (500) and Liechtenstein (499) also perform above the OECD mean score of 494, while the United States, Sweden, Germany, Ireland, France, Denmark, the United Kingdom, Hungary, Portugal, and partner economy Chinese Taipei have scores close to the OECD mean.

The lowest performing OECD country, Mexico, has an average score of 425. This means that the gap between the highest and lowest performing OECD countries is 114 points - the equivalent of more than two school years."

there is also a report on the 1998-99 school reform in Poland. I haven't read a lot, just the summary at the end, it talks about vocational schooling:

"Our results suggest that, on average, vocational schooling reduces test scores by a full standard deviation. While other aspects of the reform programme no doubt helped improve Poland's PISA scores, delayed entry into vocational education played a major role. We argue that the way to achieve better PISA scores is through more hours of instruction, greater exposure to testing, and increased student and teacher motivation."

Greater exposure to testing? The UK has pretty much proved that constant testing is a bad thing - so that hyopthesis is out.

Seanus wrote:


Yep, gonna get flamed, but I'll just put it out there.....I generally see Polish people as uncreative and this "bookish" style of education may be a big contributor.

I never turn on the radio and here a new polish song worth listening to, I rarely find Polish people to have a genuinely clever sense of humor (more just straight forward and old fashioned), there are no TV personalities worth watching.....I just rarely see something truly creative being done by a pole.

Are there smart poles? sure. hard working? of course. really creative......not really in most cases. I mean how many TV shows that air on Polish TV are actually something orignally polish? it either sucks, or is a total ripoff of something else.....AND sucks simultaneously. 'Usta Usta' still completely blows my mind. they literally took a TV series from the UK and copied it, verbatum, episode by episode, just inserted polish actors. it would be like if Poland redid 'Friends', only it would be with Kasia, Joanna, Magda, Pawel, Grzeszek and Tomek.

and no, it has nothing to do with money. you can write a good catchy song with a cheap guitar and drum set but honestly PF.....what was the last polish song you heard on the radio where you went, "YEAH, that song ROCKS!"

???????

Spot on, Delph. Wikipedia sums it up in a nutshell :)

I strongly agree with that, FUZZY. The exception would be the engineers I used to teach. They were quite creative but most other graduates from other disciplines really come up short. It just stems from dull minds. I think education might have been better in the past. Guys like my father-in-law are really capable when it comes to creative solutions around the flat.

Poles can be sharp but the system crushes them with non-stop long essays and a lack of meaningful incentives. They are like oranges waiting to be squeezed dry.

Because this is not what is promoted. In radio they like to play music which blant and mild on purpose.
In TV people make career by connections. I like all those old sctors though. They are really clever people... and yes bookish types.


How really shows broadcasted world-wide, are actually native to their countries? Its easier to make a show based on show aired on another country, which are known enough for tv audience and they know whether they will be popular. So it's lesser risk than produce own show.


Wow, you're smart indeed. What about: Niania and BrzydUla? ;DDD


It was recently when I discovered KAMP!
Also new album of Monika Brodka is quite nice (although it's kind of Florence &Machine)





Last year or 2 ago I discovered Gaba Kulka (huge inspiration take from Kate Bush indeed).



What about songs from 60s, 70s, 80s, early 90s? There were many good song which could be an international hits if they were in English. The thing whish you are talking about is not connected with education.

Good pop music tends to come from the rhythms of the spoken language. A song that sounds good in Polish usually won't survive in English translation.

I don't listen to Polish radio at all. I might if there was an all Polish station. If the dj's speak Polish I want the songs to be in Polish too, if the songs are in English I want the dj's to be speaking English too.

(That's also why Poles mostly don't sing in English very well, they carry over Polish rhythm that destroys the melody and/or rhythm - this was very clear recently on Mam Talent! when a Polish girl tried to sing "Blame it on the Boogie" which became ""Blejmi ondi bugi".

One of the few to sing really well in English is Gorniak though her spoken English (at least the little I heard) is pretty bad.

zetigrek wrote:


we could do "what about" forever on this topic. the ripoffs are endless.

zetigrek wrote:


that, and the fact that nobody in the entertainment industry here is creative enough to come up with their own programs. if they could come up with their own 'Friends' or 'Seinfeld' or '2 1/2 Men'.....they would.

lame poland. just lame.

I agree the good example is Mtslovitz albym Długość dzwięku samotności which in Polish was really nice and in English sucks so much:

pol:



eng:
...

doesn't it suck pretty much ? ;D

But recently I've hear opposite example:



English version was relised only for commercial and no body wanted to believe that's actually Polish song!

polish version is not so nice (Granda):
lastfm.pl/music/Brodka


there is but I forgot the name. They play mainly old polish rock songs. Anyone remember the name?


haha. It's deliberately FUZZY. They are Polish versions of "Nany" and "Ugly Betty". Wow, you're fast.
Actually polish Nania won the prize of the best version of Nany. Ugly betty is also a rip off of some columbian soap opera.

Here you have German version:



Wow, Germans are so uncreative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


FUZZY write a letter to TVN and tell them. They don't want to release any new ideas. It's too risky!


Not only Poland.

lame britain, lame spain, lame france, lame belgiu, lame sweden etc.
In every country you will see native versions of american/uk programmes

Zetigrek wrote:


no sh!it sherlock. save the sarcasm for appropriate moments, big shot.

zetigrek wrote:


what about 'Na Wspolnej' or 'M jak Milosc' or any of the other ridiculous TV series poland has. these were created by them so it obviously wasn't "too risky" to make those....and they all SUCK.

ok sorry :)


Na wspólnej and M jka miłość were created more than 10 years ago when most programmes (produced in Poland) were still 100% polish. It changed some 5 years ago. And for good because I hate those soap operas.

Watch TVP Kultura if you want something Polish. You Americans don't have a channel like that ;D

PS
Actually I would have an idea for shows and tv serious so I guess it's not so hard to make up an idea. But who will release it?

Why yes, yes it does suck. It sucks a battalion of donkeys.

I really like some stuff Myslovitz has done in Polish, but that was bloody awful, talk about lost in translation....

Nice song from almost 20 years ago. An original and creative group that didn't have as much suuccess as they should have had. I was a big fan and all but memorized their first album.

Bonus: pre-fame Kayah.

Well, it's good that the singer of Myslovitz educated himself in how to sing in English. Hats off to him for that! He sounds really proper sometimes. Much better than that moron who sang at the Pudzian Vs Butterbean fight. He didn't even know the words at all.

Do not encourge him! "it's not my whorl" ???? "the one I chose myself to go" What is that supposed to mean? The vowels are all over the place in ways that never happen in any variety of English.... I know English teachers are supposed to be supportive and positive but let's keep some standards in place.

To Polish vocalists considering singing professionally in english - do it right or don't do it at all.

Atrakcyjny Kazimierz?

They(he?) have funny texts but music is not astonishing.

i'm not sure about Coma's latest song. the first problem is that i don't know who wrote it, checked the language or checked the pronunciation.

the words are simple and after a few listens, it works. i'd only change the word fucking to mighty.

if u want to relate education and music: check the words to Hey's first album. the use of english is at best terrible. However, the album was made at a time when Polish music was entering a new age.

Coma: feel the music's over...

(does this guy even sound Polish.)

youtube.com/watch?v=s8dUlUkrzEE

Wrocław you gave me an idea for another useless threat ;)
To foreigners: what song/tunes of Polish musicians do you like?[
polishforums.com/society-culture-38/foreigners-song-tunes-polish-musicians-like-48379

Most new European bands nowadays will gladly sing in English (albeit their pronunciation's usually atrocious), compared say with various Russian bluegrass wannabe groups from ten to fifteen years back, whose English, resp. American, pronunciation was damned near native, I freely admit!!!

ABBA too, some thirty to thirty-five years ago, did in fact sing so well in English, few knew (or even cared) that they were Swedish-:)

Afraid I'm just too unfamiliar with the Polish contmporary pop music scene.

Actually, Polish old comedies are simply brilliant - "Sami swoi", "co mi zrobisz jak mnie złapiesz", "Jak rozpętałem II wojnę światową"...

There was this programme on TV in the 90s called KOC (you can find some examples on youtube) - just like MontyPython!

Funnily enough, Polish adverts are very often really good as well - look at Heyah, Biedronka, Simplus ads :)

And haven't you ever heard of Laskowik??

But if you don't speak Polish, you will not benefit from this. Bear in mind, it's also far more difficult to joke in a foreign language. I speak English really well by now and still some "cultural" jokes skip my attention - just because they are based of knowledge I have no chance of having.

fifteen? you mean five?

youtu.be/0HL-N9oOjcs

I enjoyed Russian version more even though I was understanding only chorus. Nas nie dogoniat!

can we get this thread back to education in Poland. even if it contains music

Exactly, Landora!

Without a solid cultural underpinning, humor is truly 'untranslatable'. I confess that I probably would not understand most Polish humor nowadays, even though I consider myself knowledgable in Polish-:) On the other hand, as you just said, most Poles listening to our Mark Russell, Tom Lehrer (from a much older generation, however) etc., even Leno or Letterman in English, probably would be hard pressed to know what all the guffawing and giggling is about LOL

Actually I have great problems to understand Leno's jokes.

Education in Poland? Ok, it's interesting that you guys defend your Master's paper. I didn't have to defend my thesis, only to give regular updates to my professor. Much the same as my dissertation but the supervisors demanded more. It struck me as being like a viva voce for PhD students. Avoiding plagiarism is key there.

I think a good question would be the motivation for doing such a paper in the first place. Too many papers submitted are like leaves in the breeze. I remember the ridiculous situation where I couldn't even get access to my own paper as it was just confined to the archives. Does the paper have to demonstrate any practical value?