Cost of Living, Average Salaries and Job sites in Poland

Yea to be fair you are probably right, we recently moved so are having to pay relocation fee and a new connection fee added to our monthly payments... think we have a 4mb on aster


Yea its not to bad here, in fact ill go out for a beer now seeing as the sun is shinning!

Very very very bad. Less than the average wage for a Pole (about 2500). Even fresh from a CELTA you should be able to get much more than that. Warsaw schools were paying 3-4000 for newbies ten years ago. I'd go a bit further and say it isn't really liveable unless you scrimp and count every last zloty and shop only at second-hand shops and discount food shops. Forget a taxi home or a meal in a half-decent restaurant.

Furthermore, I'd be suspicious of any language school that would offer that - it is a sign that they are a bad employer and there are likely to be further problems. You do realise though that Polish salaries (and EFL salaries everywhere) are always for negotiation and you shouldn't just accept without haggling. Though that is an exceptionally low starting point for negotiation.

PM me if you're interested in some work in Saudi that pays many times more than that and sometimes accepts people straight from the course.

Wow, I didn't expect such speedy response, thanks all. Yes, I'm a CELTA "graduate" (its an intense month, the term is probably justified), but so far have heard little back from applications I've made. I was under the impression that Poland was a good place to start out, but - unless I'm making glaring errors in my cover letters - it doesn't seem to be so far. The wages, as I've just discovered, appear to be particularly abysmal (especially in comparison to work offered to experienced teachers, including those in Poland).

If you said practically anywhere other than Saudi Arabia, I'd be tempted.

Quite normal - Poland is very much "we want to see you on the ground" type place. Really - the only people hiring people from out-of-country are the ones that can't get people from within Poland.

There are some honourable exceptions like Program-Bell in Poznan, but the vast majority prefer people to be here.


Hmm. For someone in their first year, outside of Warsaw - you should be able to take at least 25zl an hour with accomodation included. That's the wage for a rubbish town nowhere near civilisation - so use that as a starting point. But it's worth noting that many better hourly rates are without any sort of accomodation - it's only in small places that accomodation tends to be offered.

Do you have an EU passport? If so, just come on over - it'll be much easier to find work that way :)

Precisely.

Come over and hostel it or something? Or just look for somewhere to rent straight off?

I made the wrong decision when I decided to return to England after CELTA in Budapest, would have made more sense to stay around and look for work there, but finances were not favourable.

Thread attached on merging:
Monthly expenses in Poland

Cześć,

Wondering if anyone who is living in Poland can tell me costs on basic essentials.

Electricity bill /month
Water bill /month
Home phone
Cell phone
Internet
Bread, Potatoes, Milk, Eggs
Bus ticket (local bus & city to city bus)
Taxi /one trip
Vehicle gas /litre
Vehicle liability insurance /month

I hear that cell phones are less expansive than home phones. Is that true? Do you need to have a home phone to have DSL internet?

What's the best value cell phone service?

What's the best value internet service? What are the download/upload speeds? What is the bandwidth limit?

Dzięki

search the forums.. there is a lot of that info already here

1850zl net + accomodation.

what has recently been said about this is:

"It's not good, unless the accomodation is decent. The wage is very, very bad."

"Very very very bad. Less than the average wage for a Pole (about 2500)."

1850zl net + rent exceeds 2500. What does this say about the avg. living conditions of a Pole then?

Is it "very very very bad" for expats only?

i'm not sayin', i'm just sayin'.

Yes, because they don't have the benefit of knowing how to cut costs. Many of them will also expect to be able to live like they did back home - which isn't going to be easy on 1850zl net. And they still have to get home now and again.


It says that Poles don't tend to expect to live like expats.

Delphiandomine wrote:


so expats, before they left their home country, lived better than Polish people do? had more money to spend?

Its says in the Irish Independent that the average gross industrial wage in Poland is 7500 euro. Which is sh1t

Bang on. Or actually not.

Actually, it's quite strange for me - many expats seem to think that they should have a high standard of living - yet - take your average mid 20's TEFL type. They would be on a lower-than-average salary, especially those from the UK/Ireland - and they probably wouldn't be able to live by themselves or be able to go out nearly as much as they do here. Yet some of them come here and expect to live by themselves in a decent apartment while still having money to do as they please.

Truth be it, for the average Brit, they'll live far better here than in the UK if they can get themselves sorted. What about Americans, Fuzzy? I always get the impression that Europe is a step down for them in terms of what they can obtain here - I mean, cars, housing, electronics - everything is going to be worse.

delphiandomine wrote:


i gotta say, when i read this, i think of all the Brits on here complaining about back home, such as the recent thread from WroclawBoy. he spent a couple days in England, decided he hated it, pissed and moaned about how terrible it is there including the job market, and now he's ready for Poland again (or is he back already?) I honestly can't comment on this at all though. I simply have very little understanding of the U.K. besides they speak my language, drink a lot of tea, have their fair share of alliances with the USA and 'Snatch' was an awesome movie. I'm kidding a bit here, but as far as economy, politics, housing, I simply don't know much about it. this is part of why I posed that question earlier.

from what i gather though by reading testimonials online, to be an american in poland vs. someone from the U.K. is a very, very different situation altogether. statements like, "Truth be it, for the average Brit, they'll live far better here than in the UK if they can get themselves sorted," is perfect evidence of this.....suggesting that a reasonably successful person (I assume that's what you are referring to when you say "get themselves sorted" ) living in Poland will live better than a reasonably successful person living in the U.K. With all due respect, this makes me glad I'm not from the U.K.

delphiandomine wrote:


first and foremost, i need to say that "everything is going to be worse" is inappropriate to say. it's your impression, fair enough, but i wouldn't say everything.

regarding cars, housing, electronics.....without question. no comparison.

there's a simple way of displaying the difference when talking about "obtaining" things.

take cars:

for argument's sake, let's say we take a nice round number of 3000zl net per month for the Polish guy, and $3,000 net for an American guy (avg. salary in America right now is around $2700/month net I believe, but the avg. salary in Poland seems to be less than 3000zl as well, but who knows, that's an ongoing argument on this forum I don't want to get into here. regardless, a couple hundred here or there won't make a difference for this example) So 3000 and 3000 to keep things easier.

Poland: a polish guy wants to buy a new small Honda and an American guy wants to buy a small new Honda (i have to use a car such as this because in America, we simply don't have Peugot, Skoda, Magane, etc. Mind you, in America, a Honda is basically one of the cheapest cars you can buy, but it doesn't matter what car we choose for this, the difference will be just the same).

A new Honda Civic, Type S, in Poland, costs 68,000zl.

The same exact car in America doesn't exist, but the equivalent is the Honda Coupe, which costs $18,000.

A guy earning 3000 buying a car that is worth 68,000.

Another guy earning 3000 buying a car that costs 18,000.

the difference is clear and this goes for basically anything else you wish to buy in America. it's simply cheaper and often times better.

OH, and for what it's worth and to simply bolster my point, when I was 24 years old living in America, I was sharing a 100 sq. meter apt with a roommate a stone's throw from NYC and I drove a brand new Honda, fully loaded.

now put yourself in an American's shoes living out here. the prices absolutely boggle the mind compared to what you earn, the sheer lack of choices in basically everything is a huge adjustment, a complete lack of cultural diversity for an American coming from a big city....the list goes on and on.

so yes, going to be worse in that respect?......nearly every time.

At the risk of sounding like a DISCLAIMER, I get adamant on this forum when people discuss cost of living not because I have some hidden agenda but because when I think about where I come from, you simply cannot compare. 300+ million people living in America, paying 18,000 for a new car, not 68,000. In an American's eyes, just about everything in Poland is a complete ripoff.

Firstly, we need to look at the price of this car. $18,000 (say 3 PLN to the $) so 54,000 PLN against the Polish price of 68,000 PLN. We then have to add import duty and 23% VAT tax, not the 6% sales tax that is charged, i believe, in the States.

The difference seems to be in the wages earnt and the taxation in europe, not so much in the cost of the product.Now we could argue that the Americans are subsidised with their cars and their fuel costs (lucy them) but, Poland does not have a $11 trillion dollar budget defecite which at some point in time is going to have to be tackled. Lets see if there is such a price difference for products then.

In an Americans eyes, everything is selecetive, especially figures.

Forget currencies, exchange rates etc. The maths are simple. If you earn 3,000 per month of any currency and a car costs 18,000 it's six times your monthly salary. If the car costs 68,000 then it's more than 22 times your monthly salary.

I think it's a bit more important to look at debt as a percentage of GDP. The US is fairly close to Poland in that regard.

Sorry, I was a few months behind with the figures for the american national debt, it's $13.5 trillion, not $11 trillion.

Fairly close? Polands is running at 57% for this year and the States are running at 100%, in fact, its predicted that the interest payments alone will soon be higher than their GDP.

What does it matter, they print their own currency anyway.

Not sure what you're getting at. The average Pole won't have the global purchasing power of the average American for some time to come. This repeated the world over, but obviously changing with the single global market. Imports cost more, domestic services are much cheaper. How many hours do you have to work in the US to get a tooth extracted? It's probably going to be cheaper here. How about to buy a kilo of onions? About the same, maybe a bit cheaper? Go out to see concert? Definitely cheaper here. Buy a PS3, quite a bit cheaper in the US.

I suppose it's more of a question of what kind of lifestyle are you expecting? Staples are important, and in the grand scheme of things, aren't much more expensive that the US (in hours worked), even taking into consideration the lack of economies of scale and cheap transportation.


Here's a secret, everyone using fiat currency magics up their own money. Inflation is a pretty good indicator on how much money is flooding the market...

You're absolutely right, the 2009 numbers paint a bit more rosy of a picture. The US currently has 13.3tm in outstanding public debt on a 14.6tm GDP. Social Security is the US white elephant that makes up the largest chunk of that debt. Pensions here will become a much larger issue here in the next 10-20 with the demographic situation. There will either be cuts or borrowing. Considering how addicted the populace is to government money, I'm banking on the latter.

convex wrote:


read my previous posts in this thread. it's pretty self explanatory.

Yup, you're more or less bang on the money. You'll probably notice quite a few comments online by Brits saying the same thing - that they can have a much better standard of life here. There's also the point that the market here is still very immature - so it's possible to get yourself earning good money (by local standards) quite easily - even if you want nothing to do with teaching.

It's a source of constant wonder to most Brits as to how cheap America really is - when it was 1 pound for 2 dollars, people were flocking there for shopping daytrips! We won't even talk about things like free refills and portion sizes - but when you consider that at one point, you could buy nearly a gallon of fuel in the USA for the same price as a litre in the UK - you can see how expensive the country is!


Is there anything actually better in the EU in terms of goods? My impression has always been that as a consumer, Europe sucks in general.


Yeah, going back to the point about the UK - that is pretty much why many people go to America - because you can often pay for the holiday with the money saved on purchases. Electronics for instance - you can almost certainly assume that things will be the same amount in dollars as in pounds. And bear in mind that the UK is cheap by EU standards for electronics!

Hello!

I am a student coming to University of Warsaw for my studies. I am looking for a room in flat in center town, around 600PLN per month. and I have been told that such rooms should be decent and well, good enough to live in!

I have two questions though:
1- how much is the average cost of food in a month considering that I am a student and don't have time for lot of partying or clubbing!

2- OVERALL, How much money will I need per month to live a medium / student life?

Thanks,

It's like this.....if I made 30,000zl per month in Poland, I still would have a far better life, at a much higher standard of living, in the USA earning half as much.

it is exactly this reason that I know i cannot stay here much longer.

Common problem with Europe as a whole really - you have the good side, but the bad side is most definitely the cost of living in the continent as a whole. Even countries like Switzerland and Norway - where you can earn a massive salary, still have huge problems with the cost of living there being absolutely absurd.

Even houses - I know someone in Florida who has a huge house, and I know she isn't earning great money. The fact that she has a pool, runs A/C constantly and all the other little things that make life comfortable just tells you how much better America is to live in terms of creature comforts.

You'll get absolutely no argument from me when you say that American living costs are way lower.

Pubben said the following
Which brings me to my next point. Wages. Stupidly low. The average wage is 3200 zl per month (2009 Polish government statistics) now this is the average of everyone in the country, from the very highest earners to the lowest. Anecdotally, most people seem to earn around 1500 - 2000 per month. Starting a career is a joke: "So we really like you, what's the lowest you're prepared to work for?" A friend who could not find work as a Child Psychologist went for a job in an office, she'd had some office experience and just needed a source of income. She was told afterwards that she had priced herself out of the job by saying she was not prepared to work for less than 1200 zl per month.

Does she have any skills at all? Language skills perhaps? Google and HP are hiring in Wroclaw. Entry level positions pay very close to the average wage you mentioned.

convex wrote:


i taught HP students for years, what a miserable bunch. 1-2 years with the company, spoke at least 1 foreign language fluently and used it on the job.....and they got paid $hit. i know this because they used to openly complain about it. it was common knowledge amongst the teachers at my school that entry level employees at HP were earning under 2000zl. I simply can't imagine going to college for 5 years, walking out with a master's, and taking a job that pays $600 a month but that's what a lot of entry level jobs pay here, and this is Wroclaw, not East Bumbledump Zdroj.

From the Polish people i know it seems to be the norm.

Someone very close to me took a job at HP last year with a bachelors, first job, making 2800. She's moving jobs because the salary is too low. HP is always hiring because they can hardly get people to work and stay for that money.

And I'll put my money where my mouth is. Will hire no experience CCNAs for 3200 a month. Is there anybody out there?

convex wrote:


net?

maybe she had a special skill or something? super fluent English?

i know what these students of mine were earning, maybe she got into the right dept. or something?