Advice on Teaching English in Poland

The guy who ran that course in Paris now has a school in Toulouse. I have a job offer that will utilize my business and teaching training!

I am excited. I will see where this leads.

Your adventure begins.

So are you going to teach English in France now?
You could make and sell croissants there too :D

No, I left France and croissants are easy to find in France already. But finding good ones in Berlin is impossible. The bread here is factory made and expensive. My interest is in something that I can create in a small home kitchen. But I will probably start making my own bread. The supplies are difficult to find but there are online shops. ;)


I asked for advice about work opportunities. The other poster made an assumption that I remained in the Schengen zone but that is not the case at all. I arrived with a one year student visa and have left to keep my status legal. I am smart enough to follow the rules.

And a big part of work opportunities in ESL involve figuring out the legalities of work permits, residence status and visas. Since you didn't say anything about being a student, people only were responding to you saying you had been there in Berlin and your remark about business start-ups and software sales

Since you are so smart, I won't be wasting my time anymore responding to this thread.

Hello Slein, I need advice regarding a teaching position in Poland. I'm an Australian citizen, and I don't have a degree, I have however completed a certificate course in 'Education Support' teachers aid. Also I work at a primary school supporting teachers in the classroom so my question is, will I get by on my present experience, will I need to do a tefl course, if so which course must I do. I appreciate the time you have taken to read my message.

Laurie

P.S. lauriedal123@gmail

No.


Yes.


A CELTA, no others worth even thinking about (except perhaps a Trinity Cert. TESOL).

But even with a CELTA, you're still going to face the problem of convincing an employer that they should go to all the hassle of getting you a work permit instead of just employing a Brit who doesn't need a work permit.

@Laurie.123: Since you are a non-EU citizen, you would have to find an employer who is willing to take upon themselves the time-consuming and costly task of getting a work permit for you, which involves convincing the Work Office that you have qualifications that enable you to fill a position that a non-EU person could not, at a time when there are more than enough EU citizens with degrees from the UK and Ireland eager to work as English teachers in Poland.

Basically, a degree is indispensible. Your certificate as a teacher's aid would mean little, if anything, to a perspective employer. Your experience working as a teachers aid would probably not count for much, either. Without a bachelors degree, a TEFL certificate would be of little, if any, value, so don't even bother trying to get one. It would be a waste of money.

Frankly, the chances that a private language school would be interested in you are astronomically remote, and the chance that the Work Office will grant you a work permit without a degree is practically nil. Your chances of getting a job in the public school system are non-existant.

Sorry, but teaching English in Poland is not a career option that is open to someone of your background and qualifications.

Hold on a minute there. Which do you think an employer will prefer: a person who has a certificate as a teacher's aid plus experience in a classroom and a CELTA or a person who has just finished (a couple of months ago) a BA in media studies and and has a CELTA? I've certainly met more than a few fresh graduate out here who had degrees in subjects in no way connected to teaching or English.


OK, that one you have nailed.


Laurie is significantly better qualified than some of the people I've met out here teaching English.

Harry: Experience as a teacher's aid (not as a teacher) in a primary school wouldn't mean much to someone hiring a teacher for a language school, and would fall far short of the Work Office's requirements. All in all, she still has ZERO actual teaching experience.

No degree, no work permit. Even when I was applying for a work permit, they insisted on seeing my B.S. diploma, even though I gave them the diploma for my advanced degree. I had to send back to the States for a transcript, which the work office gave me a hard time over because they had no concept of what an American transcript was and meant.

I agree with you in principle that she may be "more qualified" than most recent grads, especially those with non-relevant degrees. But the Work Office isn't going to agree, and to them, a degree is a degree, regardless of what it is in. Your objection is a red herring that has nothing to do with the case at hand, which is that Laurie does not have sufficient qualifications and experience to land a job in Poland. Whether you or I consider it "fair" is immaterial.

I do stand by my statement that her certificate and experience will mean little, if anything, to a prospective employer. And nothing at all to the Work Office. A CELTA or TESOL isn't going to change much if she doesn't have a degree. Like you said, it's much less of a hassle to hire a Brit, and Laurie's certificate and experience as a teacher's aid is not enough by a long shot to make her worth the hassle.

Unless the rules have changed in the last two years, that simply is not true: I know people who got a work permit without having a degree. Some of them had nothing more than a high school diploma.


Yes, but if the job notice properly written out and doesn't require a degree (but, for the sake of example, requires a certificate in 'Education Support'), what the Labour office think doesn't matter. The job was advertised in the appropriate way and no applications were received, so an non-EU national can be hired.


Depends, I do know that some schools are still going through the hassle of getting work permits for teachers, so if she can find a school who have the choice between an Aussie with a certificate in 'Education Support' and no native speaker at all, she's got a shot.

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, it would be Christmas every day.

The chances that she will find a school that is interested in her to the point that they take on the hassle and expense of getting her a work and residence permit is vanishlingly small. For God's sake, she's only a teacher's aid (again, not a teacher), with no relevant qualifications and no relevant classroom experience beyond passing out crayons and wiping snotty noses.

I can't for the life of me imagine why you imagine that a potential employer would find her at all a tempting job candidate, especially when there is no shortage of equally unqualified and innexperienced UK and Irish nationals willing to take a job in even the most remote and unattractive village in Poland. The days of schools having to choose between totally unqualified non-EU nationals or nobody at all are long gone.

And getting a work permit for a non-EU national is indeed a veritable *****. I would certainly not want to go through that again, and I have tons of well-documented experience and qualifications. If you think it's a cake-walk and a matter of "no one answering the ad", you're sorely mistaken.

Bottom line (literally, because the OP is essentially asking for advice on money), is it worth investing time and money in getting a CELTA certificate on the extremely off chance that some school somewhere in Poland might someday be desperate enough to be interested in someone of Laurie's qualifications and experience, the answer is "Hell, no!".

Even in the best of circumstances, it would take her a great deal of time to offset the cost of the certificate, her flight and relocation expenses to Poland with a job that will, at most, bring in $1000 a month for only nine months out of the year. Holding out false hope is doing her no service. Her time, effort and resources would be better spent exploring and preparing for more realistic job options.

(And no, no Polish employer is going to reimburse her for her course or flight costs from Australia, no matter how desperate they are).

It's the same basic procedure that existed prior to Poland joining the EU, so I've been through it myself several times.


I really do not think that it is that much of a long-shot. If the OP is set on coming to Poland and doesn't care where she lives and understands that she will be living in a place where nobody else wants to live or work, she would be best advised to do a CELTA. It isn't a particularly good idea that she comes here with only a CELTA but it is certainly the least bad option.


Well, they might, at the end of a two-year contract. But of course that money is just taken from what could be paid as salary anyway. I knew a Canadian guy here who worked for a year at a school I won't name claiming to have a Trinity Cert TESOL (he hadn't even finished high school), then the school started to run the CELTA and he managed to convince the school to let him do it free if he signed up for two more years. He left Poland about six months after finishing his CELTA. Last I heard he was in Paris.

I still strongly disagree. She would be best advised, as I have already done so, to forget about doing a CELTA and pursuing employment as an English teacher in Poland, and spend her time, effort and resources exploring and preparing for more realistic job options.

We all know cases of "some guy" who was lucky and managed to fool the system and get away with it, or who got a lucky break in spite of the fact that they had no qualifications or experience. Sound advice is not based on such exceptional cases, though. Telling someone to spend a valuable time and a significant amount of money on what is, at best, a crap-shoot borders on being irresponsible, and even a tad cruel, especially considering that, as a teacher's aid, she doesn't earn very much and has to spend what little she earns wisely.

No. A CELTA opens certain doors not just now, but later in her career - a big question hangs over anyone in EFL who can't be bothered to get even a basic qualification.

A friend who has a few years' experience as a Teaching Assistant (the English term for 'teacher's aid') had to get one before working - otherwise his options would have been limited to the arse-end of the business.

Would you shell out money to send your kids to a language school where the teachers can't be bothered to do a quick and fairly cheap certification?

Given her qualifications and experience, what would be a more realistic job option for a person who wants to move to Poland?


It is not fooling the system to get a work permit without having a degree. It very simply is not necessary to have a degree in order to get a work permit. Schools which are MEN inspected (i.e. which do not need to get work permits for their teachers) do need to require all teachers have a degree but no other schools need to. Even the schools which PASE approved are allowed to have a certain percentage of lessons taught by teachers who do not have degrees.

I suppose that the best way for the OP to assess demand for her services would be to send a CV in a false name to schools (remembering to add that all important CELTA) and see what kind of reaction she gets. Ultimately our views and experiences mean nothing: we aren't going to be the ones hiring her. And I'd be amazed if she gets no positive responses: female teachers are less common here and so are teachers who like teaching little kids, so she's got those two things going for her.

Not to move to Poland. Opportunities for finding gainful emlployment that provides adequate income are much higher in Australia than in Poland, as are opportunities for improving her qualifications. Moving to Poland would be expensive, risky and counterproductive. I would even advise against your suggestion of sending CV's around. As I said, the job doesn't pay well enough to justify the costs of the certificate and plane ticket, so it would just be a waste of time that could be better spent on looking for a better paying job in Australia.


Sorry, but native-speaking female EU-national applicants for teaching jobs in Poland are dime a dozen. Absolutely no pressing need to resort to non-EU citizens for female teachers. And there's a reason that you see more male teachers even though there are probably more female applicants. Non-Polish female teachers are high-maintainence and unreliable. Few stay for a second year, and a lot don't even come back from the Christmas break. Males are much more satisfied with "slumming it". Frankly, I wouldn't even consider hiring a female non-Pole, unless, perhaps, she was already established here in Poland.

Nor is there any dire need for anyone who likes to work with kids. Especially for somebody with no relevant qualifications or experience.

You're being overly optimistic.


You took my quote out of context. I advised her forget about getting a CELTA because teaching English in Poland is not a viable carreer option for her. In her case, a CELTA isn't going to open any doors, either now or in the future.

You're right in that she'd do far better to stay in Oz. But if she really truly has to move to Poland, teaching is her best option.


That's not what I hear from people who actually do recruiting.


Indeed: Polish girls.

that is arguable tbh - why are you being so negative about this woman?
if she does a CELTA at least it would open doors.

They certainly are not.

I'm looking to hire one next year, and I have a grand total of 4 CV's after several months of searching and advertising. Female native speakers with experience of working with kids professionally in a real school environment are even fewer on the ground. I can tell you that many private nurseries would snap up a female native speaker if they had the opportunity to hire one, too.

As for getting a work permit, Polish law makes it very easy to tailor a job advert to your specific candidate. Female native speakers outwith major cities are incredibly hard to come by. I've sent an e-mail to Laurie.

This is true.


This is also true.

As I suspect you know, I was recruiting teachers in PL for years and hardly ever got CVs from female native speakers - they are certainly in demand not least because most learners have had plenty of male native speakers over the years.

I agree with that. It's really the only option open to her. However, who said she has to move to Poland? There was nothing in her posts that indicated such.


I was going to mention that myself, but I figured my pessimism scale was already too far in the red zone. If the poor suckers had any idea what they were in for ... But that's another thread. And a very long one at that.

But really, the willingness to slum and deal with insecurity it is an important factor.


I'm not being negative. I'm being realistic. She's obviously disatisfied with her job as a teacher's aid in Australia, almost certainly because of the low pay. She's not going to make any more as an English teacher in Poland (and probably less). She'd simply be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

Her time and effort would be better spent looking for a better job in Australia, and/or enhancing her qualifications there. The cost of taking a CELTA exam is a considerable investment for someone on a teacher's aid's wages. It's a poor investment in my opinion, for a job that's going to pay so little without any realistic hope of advancement.

Remember, even if she does land a job, she's only going to be making about $9000 a year, a little more if she's lucky and there's work for her during the summer, a little less if she's not. And out of that, she has to pay the cost of the CELTA course, her airfare, her residence permit and her relocation expenses. She's going to be in the red for a while, with no safety cushion, and when she finally does emerge, she's going to find that saving up significant amounts of money is not an option, and that self-improvement is extremely difficult. In Australia, she can at least further her education. That won't be an option in Poland.

If, after five years, she manages to get her permanent residency card and wants to start up her own business so that she could be a freelance teacher, she will probably not have enough start-up money, and certainly not enough saved up to weather the start-up period. Even flying home to visit mom and dad will be a rare occurence, at best, unless they are paying.

If I may ask you a question, why are you painting such a rosy picture of the life of ESL teachers here in Poland? It's a lousy, low-paid job that's fine for a few years for fun and diversion. A good stepping stone and foot in the door if you have real qualifications, as it was in my case, but a poor dead-end choice if you don't.

I'm not

@Rozumienic: Sorry, my misunderstanding.

I agree, what would be valuable to the Aussie lass would a Monterssori course. That WOULD be a good call.

I'm sure they would, but are they going to pay her enough to make it worthwhile to relocate to Poland? At best, she'd still make less in Poland than she could make now in Australia.


Montessori teachers are required to have at least a bachelors degree, with additional Montessori training. The lass in question does not have a degree. But a Montessori course would be a good idea if she gets a bachelors.

There are courses for Montessori teacher's aids, though, and she might want to consider taking one to improve her chances of finding a better paying job in Australia. I doubt that it will be of any use in Poland, though. There are only a handful of Montessori schools in the country, all in big cities. And she would have to work as a teacher's assistant, which is unlikely to pay enough to survive in a big city. She might earn more for being a native speaker, but she would still earn less than she could in Australia.

Hello maybe I'm from Australia wanting to work in Poland I left a post on page 3, some have replied back saying I won't get far without a degree and since I am not a Brit will not get work permit. I may not have a degree but I have a little experience in the school coupled with cert 3 in teachers aid so I have done the hard yard. Would it be worth my while doing a tefl, if so which one. This message is for MAYBE ALONE with due respect to other readers out there

If you want to teach EFL in Poland, you will most certainly need a TEFL qualification (unless you want to be stuck in the very worst of the jobs at schools which will happily employ a monkey as long as it can press the play button on the CD player at the right moments). The only certificate to do is the CELTA: all the rest (with the possible exception of the Trinity Cert TESOL) are a waste of time and money. Yes the CELTA is expensive but it is also essential.

One question: do you have any British grandparents? That does make life easier when it comes to getting your paperwork sorted out in Poland.

If I'm British, can I go to Poland and work?

Yes. No need for any permits.