Polish Canadian ESL job/student advice

Hi everyone! I am hoping to get a realistic idea of what to expect with my plans to move to poland :) please be honest and thanks in advance for your time :)

About me: I am a Canadian born Polish woman and I hold both passports. My polish is intermediate level and i am a native english speaker. I have a BA in Linguistics and hold a CELTA cert with a B+ passing grade. I have 5 years teaching experience in S. Korea and Vietnam

I want to study a masters program in Poland starting in the fall of 2019 but would like to come to poland and study Polish and work for about a year before I begin to study. I am looking to live in Katowice or Łodz.

my questions are a few: is it easier to find ESL jobs once i am in poland or searching online before hand?
I have all the qualifications and certificates and experience i need to be an attractive hire, can i expect to make a little more than 60zl/hour or 3500zl/month?

can anyone recommend me some places that might pay higher wages to apply to?
does the fact that i am a polish citizen with PESOL and passport and intermediate language skills help me in this job market?
can i expect to find private tutoring and what can i realistically charge for these classes?
should i bring textbooks/workbooks along from asia or are their english texts avaiable to buy for private tutoring?
what is the job market like in kato/łodz? i make a lot of money in Vietnam and I know i will take a pay cut but how bad is it really? should i look to work in another field while in Poland? I am a server/bartender by trade as well....

If i study in Łodz i am hoping not to work and live off of savings, today 2018, what is the cost of a small apartment in łodz? (not shared accomodation)

thank you so much if you are able to answer any of my inquiries! :) have a great day!

Bar tending is your best option in Katowice in a good bar. Speaking English will definitely help.3500 Zees is easily achievable there but late night shifts and mostly weekends and holidays.

i would like to continue teaching while in poland.... but yes, i guess that bartending is something i could go back to... thanks

One of my closest expat friends who is British is a teacher at an international school and is paid a western salary in GBP. Can you become a state licensed teacher in Canada prior to moving, and then have the ability to earn real money? The ESL game seems to be more fit for early 20's backpackers, it's not a serious career or way to earn a living.

@SigSauer hey thanks! I am actually hoping this will be my last year of ESL teaching as i plan to do a masters and move on from teaching english. I am in Vietnam now and not planning on returning to Canada before poland, the idea is finish up the contract here, head to poland and spend one year working and studying the language while setting myself up to start a masters program the following autumn....

The EFL profession can and does sometimes pay well, however you have to have something more to offer than a transient tefler. Basically superior qualifications, some niche skill, the ability to write a curriculum and materials and significant experience outside that industry. A thorough theoretical and methodological base helps - I sometimes recruit EFL teachers and am surprised (and disheartened) by how few can descripe the basic differences between pedagogy and androgogy. It also helps to be male, British, easygoing, and tolerant of less comfortable environments. In places like Iraq (I recently did 4 years there managing a training project, mostly though not only EFL) it's possible to comfortably make 6 figures in GBP tax free. Most teachers there made about half that which is still quite nice. Salaries for ordinary ELT work in countries that traditionally paid well are falling, not least due to the number of Saffers looking for work, that and improved skills among non-natives. I've mostly given it up in favour of management, however do teach the occasional specialist course and a very big plus is when you have some special sub-skill to fall back on (that and contacts for high-dayrate work that is never advertised).


The British Council, however they hire locally now and you would be competing with people who have the Council's favourite qualification, the DELTA (they have a thing about it). They pay a bit better than average so they can pick and choose and prefer people who are settled in Poland.


Taken in order: No, it wouldn't help. Anyone can and does get a PESEL and having Polish roots makes no difference at all - Polish people would see you as a Canadian rather than a Pole. You say you're Polish - people who actually are Polish wouldn't necessarily see you as one of them. Nor does the passport help, since several thousand people in PL with British or Irish passports have exactly the same rights to be there as you and intermediate level Polish is not rare among foreigners in larger cities. Next, you can find private tutoring however unless you're in an out of the way place with a dearth of teachers, you'll find that you'll need to build up a reputation in order to get decent private work. Re. textbooks, no, there are language bookshops in Poland and Amazon deliver there.

About being a bartender, you would be surprised at how little they earn in PL - have you spent much time in Poland?

HI :) thanks for your response. i have had a great run as an EFL teacher living in asia. its been amazing but i am aware that the reports from Poland aren't great.....so thats why i am asking for more current on the ground answers.

I was hoping to be in Katowice, which researching seems like an ok option as its apparently not too oversaturated with english teachers as warsaw, krakow and wrocław sound like they are...

So in your opinion it makes more sense to show up and look for work when already in Poland vs before arriving? I always think that goes better anyway... :)

and really, no advantage to the Polish passport? i thought i would have it at least easier as no one has to set up any work permit for me or anything like this...? I havent spent much time there but when i was there last year Polish people welcomed me as a Polska dziewczyna, rather than a Canadian, it was lovely ! i also didnt think bartenders made much money but someone posted earlier that they made a reasonable wage. but really i guess i need to face that its pretty grim trying to work as an english teacher in poland. ie zero savings, but enough for a basic modest life...?

It's a nice city/conurbation. Very industrial compared to some other places, however that does at least mean there's people with a disposable income.


Very much so - language schools and training companies don't often recruit from abroad (and a lot is last minute), since there are plenty of native speakers already in Poland and legal to work there. No harm in putting out feelers and letting a few larger schools know you're coming.


None at all, since Poland joined the EU where there are around 70 million people who have English as a native language. Most EFL teachers in PL have traditionally been from UK and Ireland, and of course they have the same rights to be there as a Polish citizen.

To earn a decent living in EFL in PL, you'll need to put the hours in. Remember that the best work is in-company and they usually want the start and the end of the working day - don't let a language school block your time by giving a 60 minute slot at 7.30! Canadians are a rarity in PL - perhaps you could use this as a selling point, and of course don't forget to emphasise that you've studied linguistics.

About bar work, remember that in Kato there aren't many upmarket places where you'd get tips (and you'd need to speak Polish very well for most jobs like that). Nevertheless, it's something to fall back on if needed.

Not sure which contract that was. Generally the feeling on most training/advising contracts is that the EFL branch is mandated by the client, and one which the contractor wishes they could do without. The only contract I'm aware of that's paying EFL teachers over $100k is with Raytheon in Afghanistan. In any case, having those guys on a defense contract is nothing but headaches, and the majority of lawsuits come from them and their whinging. You can understand why my opinion is generally poor. One particular contract I have friends working had to have a sexual harassment clause written into it specifically due to these guys, and it's an all male contract, so you can just imagine why that was. Outside of that, I always imagined it was a subsistence type of job for people traveling in Europe or wherever, correct me if I'm wrong though you seem to be a SME in that area.

@maltinka

What are you planning to study in Poland, and are you doing the degree program in Polish or English?

@jon357 thanks again jon, just reading some older posts in the forums and came accross some of your answers i appreciate you taking time to answer more of these type of questions. My parents are from Bytom and I spent the whole last summer in Katowice so i konw the feel a little bit and enjoyed my time there, i feel optimistic about it and it rates pretty good on cost of living so that is a plus..... really good to know about the passport, i guess i was thinking only as a Canadian and not that, of course EU citizens dont need to do anything more then just show up and work, so yes they have essentially the same as a polish passport. i was hoping i would be looked at rather highly with 5 years experience, CELTA, linguistics and bilingual with native English but it sounds like a difficult climate, much different than the one i have been living in (which i have been aware of already but i feel more clear now) those big schools i would want to let know i was coming....british council, international house, ....? any specifics?

@SigSauer i want to study a masters in English (at the uni of Łodz) with a specialization in translation studies so my goal for this year is to study polish, immersed in the language and work in preperation for and setting up to do the masters.....i have big dreams, i know i have to improve my polish but even spending 2 months in kato last summer my level went up significantly so i think a year of prep will be good and then 2 years in the program and lving in poland i should come out in a pretty good situation

Several, all IOCs. You'll notice that I mentioned that the teachers didn't get that, only the manager ;-)


Not the best one to be on by a long chalk. There are a few other very good ones however they tend to be a. not run through EFL providers, b. never advertised, c. require specialist skills and above average qualifications and d. usually short term or paid on a dayrate with accommodation in a hotel rather than a flat. The technical reporting courses I do now and again elsewhere in the Arab world pay four figures per day however they fit all of the criteria above and are of course rarer than hens' teeth.


A lot of university work which tends to be stable and good, though traditionally the high incomes are in offshore petrochemnicals work (none of which of course is in Poland). There are some very flaky drifters doing this work (and yes, I've heard about the Raytheon and similar contracts - this is one reason that where I am now, we don't often hire Australians/Kiwis/Saffers and Americans/Canadians (unless we personally know them and someone can vouch for them), or people who've spent most of their career in the far east (under any circumstances) - too much trouble that we've learnt about from bitter experience, too many fake diplomas and wayward behaviour. Since it's HE (and a very specific kind) we also tend look for people who can offer more than just ELT, and usually hire people aged 45-65.

My favourite contract was on board a ship, the Saipem700, however that's another story.

In Poland, the OP can find some good work if she's got a little more to offer than most (a linguistics degree is good), and she may be able to supplement her income nicely doing pre-sessional work in the UK.

Well, that makes sense from what I know. A good buddy left the military training side to run an ESL branch on a contract in a GCC country and he's getting $120k, but the derelicts he has to deal with would cause me to jump in front of a tracked vehicle. I guess my assessment is pretty spot on then. Also curious why people with certain proclivities would choose to be on a military contract, in an all male environment? Do you have any insights based on your experiences?

@maltinka

I see. But why would you choose to get a masters in English at a Polish university? One of the posters on here, DominicB, frequently points out that degree programs delivered in English in Poland are inferior to the Polish language programs. Wouldn't it make more sense to do that degree at a more reputable Canadian or UK school? What are your career goals post-grad?

I bet it would - some seriously weird people, especially in Saudi. Some with illiberal politics and/or alcohol issues and generally a knack of upsetting the locals. The salary isn't actually that much if he's direct hire and in a good position.


None at all, in fact it's hard to know what you mean since you don't actually say.

Some quite odd people doing that work in Poland too.

@SigSauer well.....i want to live a real life like i have been for the past 4 years in Vietnam meaning living the dream....less work, higher quality of life.i dont want to be in the system 40+ hour work weeks, owning tons of material things, having massive bills to pay etc etc.... so i am hoping that i will do the masters in translation (and choosing poland is because i want to do english/polish translation, seems fitting to study in poland, where as a bonus the uni that offers the course is public so it is free or the other ones that aren't are still significantly cheaper than the cost of studying a masters in Canada, never checked UK but cost of living there is so high making it not ideal for me.....so what would be ideal is if i can study and live mostly off savings allowing my full time job to be a student and really do the study, finish and then live maybe in the EU for a few years working in a translation house to get some experience and then ideally by about 40 i will be live between Canada and Asia using my skils that i have acquired up to that point (Eng teacher, yoga teacher and translator to work online/freelance internationally, not having to do any one thing full time and working less and lving more....thats the big dream.... :) :) :) the next few years in poland will allow me something very interesting and great as well as deepening my language skills and gaining education but also connecting with my heritage culture on a deeper level then ever before making it a very attractive move regardless of the sweet easy life i will have to give up (at least for now)

Interesting that you're choosing to move to Poland, a particularly materialistic society. One where you'd need to work harder than you're used to in order to make ends meet.


For courses delivered in English? That's quite interesting.

i dont mean any insult or anything rude and i hope it doesnt come accross that way when i say i want to live 'real life' i am not judging anyone on their lives or how they live....i just have lived outside that system for a long time and my goals in life are to continue living in a way that allows for creativity, enjoying the moment, personal growth, development of skills and life long learning, also love and laughter being high on the priority list, i dont want to be focused on money nad material goods ,thats all, please dont misunderstand or take me the wrong way. :)

No worries, t doesn't come across as rude at all - in fact it comes across as honest, open and nice.

I think you have great goals - whether Katowice is going to be the easiest place for that is hard to say. The university there is very good and there are some great people in that city - one of those places where you can generally find what you want to find, be who you want to be.

My main point, is that Poland as a whole is probably more materialistic than you are used to (that's how I found it when I moved to PL from UK years ago) and travelling to a 7am lesson on an industrial estate outside Kato on a cold Tuesday morning in February isn't for everyone ;-)

The money thing - you sound a bit like me - not money-minded and focused on the more important things in life (though a healthy bank balance does help). I'd add that in Poland, money can become an issue; it's a society where most people have too little and where some have too much. You mention yoga etc - I expect you'll handle things ok - just be prepared in Poland to deal with extremes, both in life and in people!

yes, but its temporary and the personal gains are really big for me, immersing myself in a culture that was so close to me growing up but not really knowing it at all, a chance to live in another new country but yet one that is in some senses my own, and also to further my education and reach some bigger goals. i love the life i have with being a teacher living abroad but i dont want to teach english forever, but i would like to keep this life style open, and translation work seems like a natural fit, as well as with my linguistic background and experiences so far. i was in poland over the summer bc my mom broke her hip and i had to drop my plans ( i was 5 days into my trip to nepal and planned to head to india in a few weeks and instead spent a suprise summer in poland....it changed things for me, opened my eyes to finally knowing what direction to pursue, i knew i wanted to study for awhile but wasn't sure what) i also like a good challenge and being a bit of a rebel i cna respond in a maybe interesting way to a materialistic society hehe ;)

from what i understand about hte program is that if you are a polish citizen the course is 50% off if the studies are in English making it 1000euros.....very cheap for me as a canadian......the studies in polish are free but yes, you are right they are not free english language programs.

Best Polish schools tend to be state schools, taught in Polish. English degrees aren't viewed that highly from schools Poland esp private ones. If you planned to do your education in England in Poland you're better off just going to a Canadian uni for undergrad and than Poland for grad school imo... or go to Polish state school. I can't speak for L.A. and philology (for business its SGH undergrad and grad level) but the schools in Warsaw tend to be the best although there's some decent schools in Katowice too since its a big city. You can still get a job though teaching young kids with that but don't expect to ever move further like teaching even high school or undergrad level without a masters or atleast a bachelors from a good polish uni, good knowledge of polish, and some work experience under your belt. If you're just looking to teach English though ultimately most important is just to be a native speaker and do some certifications, nonetheless a degree in that field helps if that's what you plan to do.

That will be interesting, and as I say, prepare for surprises. It's sometimes not very accurate to talk about Polish culture, better to say Polish cultures. I wish you well, and think you're open enough to have preconceptions challenged.


That might be quite good (though it's ruthlessly competitive. The wise translators have contacts directly with clients rather than agencies. Just an idea - ypu mentioned you're from Canada - could you teach French? A lot less competition, and there is demand for this in PL. Including in Kato.


Excellent - I think you'll survive well there ;-)

I'm out of PL right now, however when I'm back, I go to Kato occasionally for something either with my other half or with friends. If you're there in the next academic year it could be great to meet for a coffee.

Some are, but I think the course she's looking at will be subject to competitive entry and won't be easy to get into.


Have you noticed a trend in the last few years of ex-military weirdos turning up with no connection to the country? I've had several encounters with them over the last few months, including one chap who was moaning and whining because girls only wanted "free English lessons" and not serious dating.

Agreed with what you say about translation - though with the caveat that there's still not many native speakers of English able to translate from Polish to English correctly.

@Dirk diggler
hey thanks for your response, but i dont understand it exactly, do you mean that my degree because i received it in Canada its an 'English degree' or do you mean English as in English Major in a BA?? my degree is a BA in Linguistics (and actuallly with English as a minor) sorry i am just not clear on what you mean! but also, with a good/intermediate level of Polish and 5 years teaching experience, does that help me at all in maybe getting some work in a state school? or that is reserved for people with proper teaching degrees? (which i dont have just a CELTA and BA) thanks for your time! :)

i have my undergrad from the University of Alberta Canada :)

I'm sorry I just read your experience - I was reading more recent posts and at first it sounded like you were just about to move to Poland and attent school there...

So Canadian degrees will be respected in Poland. You won't have an issue with that. My response was more in reference to the state of schools in Poland for the undergrad/grad level. Anyway, if you have teaching experience and you're a native speaker plus you speak some Polish you'll find a job no problem. I would go for either well known international schools or renowned Polish state schools. The pay for teachers however, even professors at the uni level, is low even by Polish standards so be prepared for that. Quite a few people make money on the side tutoring for which the rates are actually a lot more than the salary theyd make teaching. CELTA and BA will be enough to get you a job teaching esp English but some may require higher level certifications just depends on the school. It'll be easy for you to get settled regardless though. I also have dual like you but US/Polish citizenship and while I live primarily in the US I travel to Poland all the time and have a home there.

Yes. I once hired a guy who lasted precisely 2 lessons doing 1-1 BusEng with the Marketing Director of a large company. He insisted that the Director was absolutely wrong on every level and he knew this because he'd been an army officer 5 years before. When I told him the lessons were stopping his immediate (and oddly rapid) words were "if you don't pay me I'll keep the books". Weird. And there was the one that posts right-wing nationalistic stuff here sometimes (you know who I mean) that used to bother women at clients' offices and didn't really respect the word "no". That was a low point.

Plus there was the one that drank half a bottle of vodka every morning and who was allegedly on the run from something extremely serious. I often wondered what happened to him so I googled him a while ago and it turns out he's dead.

And the older gentleman that used to hang around Warsaw in a sort of fake semi uniform, with a label sewn on giving an air force rank. As far as I know (and I'd seen his CV) this was entirely fake.


Either it's the wrong 'girls' (how old are they anyway to be girls not women), or he's in the wrong country, or he's just a creep. Or all of those.


Usually they expect QTS however in language teaching there are some (rare) ways round that, even in the state system. State schools in PL don't pay at all well and the work is hard, however it's easier to pick up work in private schools - most of them aren't that good, however they do hire.

@maltinka

I'm a bit lost in seeing the connection between a masters in English from a Polish university, and doing translation work. Wouldn't a masters in Polish language make more sense, as you're already proficient in English? Couldn't you become certified as a translator without this? I suppose I am looking at this and not seeing a linear progression here, or a connection between them. In any case, with the tuition so incredibly low, you're not investing much more than time, so I suppose there isn't a whole lot to consider with ROI. Anyway good luck to you, you sound quite contented either way.

@jon357

Well never mind to the previous point. But illiberal politics? Most people working on military contracts do not endorse liberal politics. In fact, why would anyone who was far left of center choose to work for the evil 'military-industrial complex,' as that would seem highly hypocritical and go against everything they believe in. They would just be a sell out at that point.

Yeah Jon actually points out a valid thing here - while state schools tend to be more respected, its the private (esp the known international schools) that will be far easier to get your foot in the door and they tend to pay more too....

@jon357
i love having preconceived notions challenged or to be wrong in general, especially when we do that initial judging of someone something (not necessarily harmful judging, just natural and then it turns out you are super wrong about them!) that already happened to me a lot when i was in poland last summer, i was so suprised by so many things it was a really interesting experience for me and made me want more! i have lived in a different culture than my own for a long time now and its been so cool and interesting but with Poland it felt even more so because i could speak with understand and learn so much more from the locals than i have been able to in 4 years in VN. it was very informative and exciting!

doing research about translating it looks like there is a lot of work, and yes competitive, i understood that you kind of need to work in an agency as a newbie until anyone will take you seriously enough to move into freelance work so i kind of understood you have to put a few years into an office job....and sadly i dont speak a lot of french, im from the west side where its not as common to use it and i failed there when i was younger :( damn childhood shortsightedness hahha!

I'm super happy to make friends and connect in Kato this next year. sounds great! :)

@delphiandomine
i am almost certain it is competitive entry to get in, so that is why again i want to get there sooner and deal with things from in country and also work on that polish level....! the translation course is offered at a few different institutions throughout poland...wish me luck! :)

Most people, even teachers and trainers, don't preach politics at work. Those who do are usually seen badly. I've come across this before in the Middle East. One guy used to go on all the time about some writer called Ayn Rand that most of us had never heard of. He was fired.


Most educated people do, however they, as I told you, tend not to talk politics at work.


That, would depend on their politics. Most of the military contracts over there are just dealing with cadets, and those better jobs teaching Military English - well, countries of all ideologies have armies, and round the world you can find quite a spread of oipinion among military officers and those who work with them.

@maltinka

I suppose my biggest reservation would be if I saw a CV come across my desk, and I don't know what the criteria would be for language studies, but in general and that person was a Canadian/US/UK/NZ/AUS citizen, but they had a degree from a Polish university delivered in English language, my first and most immediate thought would be that they were unable to matriculate to a university in their own respective country for one reason or another, but all of those reasons I can think of would be derogatory. Given what many members have said regarding the lower quality of degree programs delivered in English in Poland, and that they're regarded lower, would make me seriously apprehensive. Now, maybe this sort of thing is irrelevant in your particular job field, but that is my initial thoughts regarding this particular path. If in your particular niche job field this sort of concern would not raise red flags, then of course the best of luck to you and I hope you enjoy studying and living in the country! =)

the translation studies course is offered under the umbrella of MA in English Most people taking the program will be studying English as Polish Native Speakers. Bur when it comes to the technical courses (ie medical terminology for example) that Eng NatSpeakers take the equivalent courses in Polish and actually looking now, the studies are free for Polish Citizens like i originally thought :) so for sure it is competitive intake. Students with polish origin get 50% off but since i have recently gotten my passport etc, I get treated like a citizen and get to take advantage of free education, unfortunately unheard of in Canada. I will study the language as much as i can but for the degree, i want something that carries on well with my Linguistics Background and maybe is more internationally recognized, so i think MA Engl with specialization in Translation studies is better than a degree in Polish....?

by the way thank you all! its been a really interesting chat here with everyone. i appreciate the conversation and I feel a bit more aware of what the situation will be like when I arrive in Poland to work ;)