Can you BE Polish without SPEAKING Polish in the US?

This is a really interesting topic, and I've noticed that things have gotten heated. I just wanted to add in my few cents.

First of all, one person on the thread commented about how in the United States, you're considered "American" if you're born there, despite the fact that your parents may be from another country. I find that a really interesting point considering that I've never been considered "American" my entire life. People never saw me as such, because I didn't speak English as a first language and so I was a foreigner in what was supposed to be my home country.

I was born in the United States, but my parents are from Poland--Warszawa and Krakow respectively. I learned to speak the language from my grandmother, with whom I spend most of my early years, which I spent living between two countries--US and Poland. As a result, I've learned the history and the culture of Poland, and to be honest, I've fallen in love with the country. As a result, I got my Polish citizenship, because for me, that is where home is and that is where I wish to spend the rest of my life. For me, in order to be considered Polish, they have to speak the language, be a first generation American and at least know some of the history and culture, simply because I would consider it rude that the person is talking about being part of something that they have no knowledge about. I've known people who's grandmothers are from Poland, and who go around saying that they're Polish, but when you ask them Historic questions or ask their opinion of a certain topic, all they can give you is a blank stare. That upsets me every time.

Of course, I have to say that not everyone will agree simply because of their up-bringing. I know many Polish-Americans whose parents came from Poland, and who were sent to Polish school to learn the language and history, yet they don't give a crap about their ancestry and where their family comes from. They don't care about Poland and her problems; all they do is wave their flags when something amazing happens in Poland, and parade around saying that they're Polish. For me, that's a bit fake, but I gotta accept that not everyone sees their ancestry as a good thing or something interesting.

A place where you're born doesn't define who you are, it's the environment that you've been brought up in that makes you who you are. I can't say that I'm not American, because I was born there. I know the history perfectly well, but if you were to ask me cultural questions about the U.S, I wouldn't know the answer, simply because I haven't been brought up with the American culture. As for the Polish part, I am because I've been brought up on Polish food, culture, tradition, history, and I've spent more than half my life in Poland. And, I feel a lot more Polish than American. Until this day, no one has been able to guess that I'm American...they always guess Eastern Europe, but the idea of me being American never crosses their mind.

It's worth mentioning that if you were to ask the average American the same questions about America, you'd get the same blank stare.....yet, they're still very very much "American". If anything, being ignorant of your country's history is kinda American.

I will answer.Super high taxes,corruption,nepotism,crooked and stupid regime,opressing population,justice system rotten to the bone....I can go on and on.I am not in any case saying that US is a perfect country and none of the problems exist here but they exist on much smaller scale and the US is still much better place to live than Poland even if you are an immigrant.

^all of that exists in Poland but on a much SMALLER scale imo. I think it's that it's so unsophisticated compared to the corruption in western countries that it seems like there's more of it but I think there's much less, just very poorly hidden.

I'd go along with that, ive always said they'll take you for 100 Zloty in Poland but 10K in the UK.

I dont know what historical documents say over in Russia or Poland or any part of Europe , but here, when the immigrants did sign documents for any reason, until they

actually became citizens of the United States they called themselfs Russian Polish, German Polish, etc

its funny how europe is where they came from, yet they cant claim any part of it once they leave .

so your wife is no longer polish now that she is with you in the states, she is now a American of Polish decent.

same as we all say, we have family back in poland, some of us are less fortunate to learn the language, prob because polish treat them just as bad so why bother.

The govt has nothing to do with why people are polish.. its culture. every country has a govt and all of them are arseholes.
and how could poland expect people to come help them when they could give two shyts about the people they dont call their family anymore?

if your going to stab me in the back then I will not claim my ancestry as Polish, why should I?? let it all die in euope and dont call us when you need help next time

someone is trying to take over.. yeah, forget those that you need the most.

one of my great uncles talked about Poland, about the beauty, the hills, the forests, he boasted about it to our family, what he forgot to mention was that our brothers and sisters

would one day tell us we are no longer welcome, that we dont belong. that all the ancestors we have known to fight for polands independence were fought for nothing

because the newer generations would tell us that because we dont live there were nothing.

I learned a word from my father, I am sure he learned it from his..

hows about those who think we dont belong can kiss my dupa!

if I spelled it wrong oh well, if I get suspended oh well.. not like I will miss much. same old crap different day.

I try to not read these threads, and ignore the posts, but sometimes its like, how can people who just recently came from Poland even have the balls

to say you dont belong when they clearly are only going to visit, they will come here to the states, talk crap about those who say they are polish or of polish ancestry

and they are living in another country same as we are.. hypokrite comes to mind..

truth is what does it matter if they say this or not, they make light conversation of it, your right, not that many care anymore, and I dont blame them, and guess what.

thank yourself for it, cause its all the wanna be American polish that have put up with it for so long, now no longer really care, so if your country goes to the toilet,

then so WHAT!!!!

And for those that go to Poland who are not Polsih, but have citizenship, if you still claim your ancestry then you are not Polish either, do you dress up in the traditional

hats and clothing and go to the festivals and perform ? do you cook Polish food? do you speak polish even when your talking to your own relatives? do you POOP

Polish too??? cause if you dont do any of these things you are not Polish, you are just a citizen of Poland of some other decent engaging in Politics and pretending to be

Polish,,

so instead of a Plastic Pole we will call you the ceramic Pole. your almost cooked but not quite done yet. you dont have all the requirements down yet.

lol

Patrycja, this thread is pure provocation like many others here.
Don't be taken in !
Don't let yourself be decived !
Listen to your heart, there is Polska there. You know it for certain.

So in other words, instead of coming here and changing things for the better, it's just easier to stay in the US isn't it?

Confirms what we all thought - the Polonia have big mouths but tiny hands.

Who would that be? The bitter British expatriates living in Poland talking through their hats by any chance?

Yes, but it's formed by a constant impact of Polish culture, language, people's behaviour, various social factors, in other words mingling in Polish society. If you rub shoulders with Polish immigrants you get a totally different state of mind which is glaringly obviously on this forum.

You've very much hit the nail on the head there - it's that constant, living contact - and the language is only part of that, but an essential part. Polonius3's


is no doubt real, but a state of mind can so often be a deluded one - especially at a temporal or spatial distance. A


that is concerned with an abstract idea of Poland, a 'disneyfication' of Poland, idealised to the point of mythology by people who happily fantasise about it but would hate to actually deal with the realities of life there.


I don't know about any 'bitter' expats, however those British-born people who have posted in this thread are far more credible on the matter of Poland than someone from a different continent who has never lived here and doesn't even speak the language. Immigrants not emigrants, talking from their personal experience rather than 'through their hats' (baseball hats no doubt with a slogan on about 'Casimir Pulaski' Day!)

I'm not sure anyone here would be foolhardy enough to deny your ancestry and deny your right to having pride in being from Polish stock. From what I know of Americans it is considered dull to simply say you are American without saying your ancestors emigrated from.

America only came to Europe after Pearl Harbour was bombed. Really, the US could hardly wait to join in.

Does that go only for Poles? What about people that leave China? Russia? Greece? Ireland? Vietnam? They're all traitors too, taking the easy route, abandoning their countries, not true patriots?

Your words, when asked, "so every Pole that moved to the USA did it for "greed and desire", and you see nothing wrong with it?" and you said, "what's wrong with wanting more?"

And then I asked, "Does that go for all Poles that left Poland and went elsewhere in Europe like Germany, France, Scandinavia, England, etc.?" and you said, "Of course. They're now learning that it's very hard to make something of themselves back in Poland, as those who stayed are the ones headed to the top."

Yeah.

The funny thing about this is it is sooooo common to see the same pattern repeated by people on this forum over and over. They trash the USA, say that it's not "all that" anymore, yet will in the same breath criticize Polonia for staying in the USA where "it's easier" instead of coming back to Poland and grinding it out with the rest of them. This "we all go down together" attitude is so entertaining, as if all the Poles that left to provide themselves and their families a better life are in the wrong, are traitors, not true Poles. This is why you get posts like Patrycja19.

"one of my great uncles talked about Poland, about the beauty, the hills, the forests, he boasted about it to our family, what he forgot to mention was that our brothers and sisters

would one day tell us we are no longer welcome, that we dont belong. that all the ancestors we have known to fight for polands independence were fought for nothing

because the newer generations would tell us that because we dont live there were nothing...........
I try to not read these threads, and ignore the posts, but sometimes its like, how can people who just recently came from Poland even have the balls

to say you dont belong when they clearly are only going to visit, they will come here to the states, talk crap about those who say they are polish or of polish ancestry

and they are living in another country same as we are.. hypokrite comes to mind.."

good stuff, Patrycja19.

Des got suspended again?


It applies whenever they talk in this ridiculously over-the-top way about how (insert nationality) they are because they eat (insert badly spelled ethnic food name) at (insert stupid name for grandparents). All this crap about 'we care more than the people in Poland care' is just ridiculously revolting.

I trash them because they talk as if they know what's best for Poland and act like they really care, yet they obviously don't.

That, and they're racist scumbags anyway.

It still doesn't justify your sweeping generalizations about millions of people.

You are one of them - the pattern you are repeating here is obvious you are soooooooo predictable and pathetic.

Your maniacal hatred of Polish-Americans is really unhealthy, British boy.

There is 10 millions PolAms living in the US and there is not a damn thing you can do about it. What a lovely thought :)

Anyone who says "pierogies", "busia" or "golumpkies" can safely be assumed to be a blithering idiot.


As long as they stay in the US, what's the problem?

It was, after all, an excellent dumping ground.

By a presumptuous British expatriate living in Poland making stupid assertions all day long.

Poles in Poland simply don't care one way or the other.


If they come to Poland it's perfectly fine too. They will be welcome.

Who are you talking about, again?

Polish-American does not mean Pole.

Polish-American, as defined by the US Census, is any American citizen with Polish ancestry. That does not mean that person is Polish.

Of course this person is Polish.I hope you are not fishing for some anti semitism here?Two examples of such Poles are Władysław Szpilman ,a Pole of Jewish faith and Michał Falzmann a Pole of Evengelic faith and German ancestry but there are thousends others.

One would think, but most of them are criticized by the "real" Poles back in Poland. They all left for greed and sold out and whatever else they say. It's that same "we all go down together" mentality Poles tend to adopt when their friends and family leave Poland for greener pastures.

The only criticism I've ever heard in Poland about them is the way that they claim to be Polish (despite knowing nothing about the country) and for being essentially fairweather patriots. That, and for interfering in Polish elections.

The sheer amount of uneducated drivel that you read on here from them is one huge reason why they get criticised.


I don't hear it here, but I can imagine such jealousy is rife among the uneducated classes in Polska B.

Going over old ground

"Going over old ground" = Polishforums.com

So if someone leaves the country to make money and comes back to invest it in a business, are they smart or a greedy traitor? What if someone leaves for 10 years and then comes back? How about for 20? What if they don't come back but only send the money back home?

And when you leave Poland, when do you actually stop being Polish? When you get on the plane? When you get your immigrant papers? Are you still Polish after 5 years? How about 25 years?

I agree with Patrycja. It reminds me when people used to leave for Western Germany en masse, a few decades ago, and everyone here would talk about how they were disloyal, unpatriotic, or sellouts, but then everyone would kiss their a$ses to get parcels with candy and toys, and clothing, and whatever other crap they expected to receive, and would throw parties when the family "z efu" came to visit. It was this mix of envy and love-hate relationship, fueled by the myth of "easy live" in the West. And it's not just uneducated people who bought into the myth - three of my own teachers left for Germany, several of my parents coworkers - engineers and scientists, even two priests from our parish - lol, one of them a few weeks after delivering a sermon on how true Polish Catholics should not abandon the "sinking ship," which I remember pretty well because that Sunday happened to be the day of my First Communion. I see there is a lot of that love-hate going around about the US, too.

Bottom line, it seems like the question about who is Polish tends to revolve around "who to exclude from the definition," rather than "who to include." Which, sadly enough, doesn't surprise me.

No the opposite. The brave ones left Poland. The ones who were scared of making it in in a foreign land with an uncertain fate stayed behind. My one uncle went to Canada lived there for 5 years until he got his citizenship then left (1995) and never came back. He said he wont go to another country to work ever again. It's hard work, hard to learn the language well and integrate. Some people can't hack it.

Bottom line is - what are you talking about woman ?
Read OP post - it is about Pol-Ams.
Then again most posters here ain't Polish !
Poles do not care about that much.
Also Poles regained their 'being Polish' by excluding rather then including. Perfectly understandable under circumstances.


You are wrong again boy!
The braves Poles were killed!

lol, wtf? killed when?

your whole post makes no sense

You're Polish if you maintain Polish Citizenship, and have a passport. I have both Australian and Polish citizenship, it depends on what passport I travel at the time.