US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński

Polonia pays taxes in the countries whose infrastructures they use. They are not selfish. The demands that Polonians pay the Polish government to exercise their right to vote as Polish citizens is stupid, as is the demand that they drop their careers in the countries in which they are living to go do volunteer work in Poland. Citizens of republics should have the right to vote regardless of where they live. The representatives elected by the Polish citizenry say how Polish tax revenue is spent and none of these representatives are elected solely by Polonians. People in Poland have the overwhelming say as to who is elected, but people in Poland, excepting some stingy English teachers and some ultra-partisan ideologues, are generous enough to know that the Polish nation comprises more than just those people living in Poland, and they trust their fellow Polish citizens abroad to make informed choices at the ballot box.

I think it's a lot to do with the English language reporting - when you see Jaroslaw Kaczynski being described as the "Conservative" candidate, you get the ridiculous situation where people come on here and assume that he's the "pro-business" candidate.


It's not based on generations, but rather several citizenship laws. It's a bit messy, but it depends on things such as - did the ancestor claim a foreign citizenship before 1962, did they join a foreign army - and some other stuff. But it can only be obtained from the mother or father (and before 1951, only the father if the parents were unmarried) - essentially, a bit of a minefield.


They aren't selfish, but they vote in our elections without paying taxes to the country - perhaps the ultimate act of unpatriotism.

As for the demands - nice to see that you think paying money to the Polish Government is "stupid". I mean - that's 38 million people you're insulting right there.


If they cared half as much about Poland as they say they do, they wouldn't hesitate. Why are you hesitating, Des? Is it because you would prefer to volunteer in Ukraine (which, admittedly, needs help even more than Poland does)?


Actually, most Poles don't want them voting abroad. We already know that they can't make informed choices ;)

the point is that they don't.

Another superb example of of commenting on the issue and not the people!


Almost all of Polonia could easily afford to pay the same taxes as the average Pole does: but they choose not to. However, tens of thousands of them think that they can still say how the Polish taxpayer's money is spent. That is hugely selfish.


If their career is that good, they can easily pay for somebody to do the work they won't do themselves. I'm more than happy to direct you to schools who will gladly accept the $600 a month you can pay for somebody to do the job here you refuse to do.


Which is why in a few years we won't be able to have a discussion about how Polonia voted.

So you think U.S. Polonians should be disenfrancished because 80% of them voted for a party that you don't like. You should note that that party came in second-place in the elections with 30% of the vote and only a few thousand U.S. Polonians voted. Do you also propose that 30% of the Polish electorate be disenfranchised as well for making "uninformed choices". Where will you stop once you decide that Polish citizenship isn't enough to warrant one having the right to vote. In the country in which I reside similiar reasoning was behind methods once used in the Southern states to disenfranchise people.

No, they should be disenfranchised for not having a clue. The party that they vote for is irrelevant - the point is that they often make their choices based on garbage Polonia newspapers which lift all their stories from Polish tax-paying media outlets.

How strange of Des, a self-proclaimed liberal, to be defending PiS though. Sums up the inherent contradiction in US Polonia society - and offers an excellent reason why they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I am defending the right of Polish citizens to vote. You are very stupid if you believe defending the rights of Polish citizens is somehow a defense of a single political party.

who they vote for is of no consequence. why should i worry about the party that came in second.

had they voted PO my opinion would be the same.

They aren't citizens though, they're mostly traitors. Certainly, every single one of them with American citizenship is a traitor.

The vote should certainly be stripped from anyone who has pledged to help a foreign power.

I'm very much of the opinion that Polish citizenship shouldn't be awarded without a langauge test AND proof of contribution to Poland.

Buying "kielbasas" and "pierogies" at POLISH FEST doesn't count.

No I think that citizens who fail to respect their responsibilities as citizens should not have full rights. That is why I have also spoken out against prisoners having the vote (and they overwhelmingly rejected PiS).

In other news, in late August I interviewed the director of a school in a small town called Wola Uhruska who was telling me how much they wanted a native speaker teacher. Charming place, I'm sure you'd like it. To find it on the map, just look at Chelm then move towards the border and Wola Uhruska is right on the border with Ukraine.

According to Polish law they are citizens of Poland. According to idiots they are traitors. This thread is becoming really tiresome. The same stupid B.S. from the little clique of British expatriates that have a sick obsession with Polish-Americans. They need psychological therapy.

You trying for the world record for superb examples of commenting on the issue and not the people in a single thread?


How about you try to address the issue instead of insulting people?

Well, a few Poles here have a similar opinion.

According to Polish morals, which are stronger than the law (just ask anyone who actually lived here during Communism) - they're traitors.


Not only have you called 38 million Poles "stupid", but now you're also calling them "idiots".


Do try and keep to the topic.

Almost all Poles who know that Polonia vote have the same opinion.

But I suppose that one would have to visit Poland to know that, which is why so few of Polonia have realised it.

I have commented on the issue throughout. PWEI, you claimed earlier in the thread that the "actions" of US Polonia warrants their being disenfranchised and I and another poster asked you what exactly these "actions" were. You never answered our questions, because you cannot say that voting for a party you don't like warrants disenfranchisement, because any sane person knows that that would pervert democracy. Keep pretending that I haven't commented on the issue, and I, and others reading this thread, will continue laughing at what a edit .

I have repeatedly stated that those persons who are too selfish to meet their responsibilities as citizens should not enjoy full rights as citizens. People who by their actions do nothing for Poland should not be able to vote in Poland; be they Polonia, criminals or whatever.

Do you think you could perhaps manage to reply without insulting anybody? Thanks in advance.

I wonder how many of the US Polonia voted who avoided their obligations to perform compulsory military service in Poland?

No, but moving to the USA and refusing to do the slightest thing to help Poland most certainly is an action.


Probably about 50% of the number who have failed to ever do anything to help Poland (seeing as women never had to do compulsory military service in Poland).

Certainly is. It's a conscious act designed to show Poland how little the US Polonia actually cares about them.

Des - why do you persist with the personal insults when you can clearly see that there's a moderator on here reading this thread?

I still love the part where Americans with non-Polish great-grandparents feel the need to interfere in domestic Polish affairs.

Aren't American citizens banned from having dual citizenship?
Edit: Apparently not, unless you actually apply for it.

This caught my eye, what teh US State Department thinks.


travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

No, they are not.

To be fair, it is a two-way thing. Most of the Poles I know think of Polonia as little more than ignorant peasants who don't even know what a Polish grandmother is called. The only time they have anything other than contemptuous laughter for Polonia is when I remind them that those people can, at the moment, vote in elections.

That tends to stop them laughing in a hurry ;)

Interference in domestic politics by foreign powers is no laughing matter in Poland. Given the amount of spies that the USSR had in the USA, it's not inconveivable that those with Communist sympathies and Polish heritage could in fact be traitors in more ways than one.

Hey, that means I can vote doesn't it? (UK citizen, Polish Father)

PWEI, you and your expatriate cronies, have provided Polonia with many many reasons to laugh at you contemptuously on this thread and others. Too bad for you that you have ended up entertaining the very people you hate, but it is also too bad for this forum that you end up ruining alot of its threads by indulging your stupid prejudiced hatred for Polonia at every opportunity. US Polonia is 10 million strong and we will not stand idly by while a few hateful clowns insult us. Polonia and Poland forever! Meddling petty, and resentful English teachers never.

Yet more personal abuse.

Des, don't you think that perhaps, after having a fair few posts moderated today and yesterday, it might just be a little bit wise to lay off with the personal attacks?


Depends - was your father a Polish citizen as of 1962? If so - yes, you can. Pretty trivial to claim your citizenship too.

Do you really think that the rules here don't apply to you. Three times you have been warned or edited by mods in the last three and a half hours.


No, you need to get your Polish citizenship first.

I have made no personal attacks. I have defended Polonia not against one person but against a sad cabal of persons that think it is just fine to attack and insult Polonia. You are really stupid if you believe that calling Polonia a bunch of traitors is fine but pointing out the failings of expatriates on this forum is somehow "personal".

Why are your posts littered with red text, including a very prominent warning about receiving a week's ban if you continue then?


It is fine, because it's our personal opinion that they shouldn't be allowed to vote. Sadly, your 'defence' has consisted mostly of personal attacks and little in the way of rational, reasoned argument.


Calling the moderators "stupid", as well as calling 38 million Poles "idiots" and "stupid" is really..well...not a good idea.

Still, let's get back on topic -

This 80% result for PiS just shows how utterly out of touch the US Polonia actually is. It's pretty obvious that they're relying on poor sources of information - there's simply no reason why a Democratic city like Chicago would vote for Kaczynski - unless they simply don't know who they're voting for. No doubt "Busia" tells them who to vote for in her confused old age, probably while wearing a "World's Greatest Busia" t-shirt.