US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński

Being called an idiot by you is a compliment.
Yes, we lost our elite and sad, disorientated people are following the ones who are screaimng about hatred and conspiracy theories - namely PiS.
If you want to know, I come from a line of educated people, Polish army officers (pre-war) and AK soldiers among them. I am an intelectual elite of this country, without much money or power for now, but with a right to vote that I use.

In time of peace, it is enough to be a good, honest, tax paying citizen. It's harmful for a country to run around causing havoc and abusing our neighbours. So, tell me what are you doing that's so valuable for Poland?

And no, I'm not a huge fan of PO, but PiS is the worst of them all.
I have nothing in common with SLD, nor with PSL. I agree with economical views of Palikot, but his to harsh on the church - not that the church is so perfect these days, sadly. But I'd rather have Palikot, then PiS.

And where do you choose to pay your taxes and live your life?

Who are you Ironside to judge who is the elite and who is not? Are you an elite? What makes you think so? Your occupation? Your education?

Ironside is definitely part of an elite. He is in a class of his own.

What I meant was:
- significant financial and psychological support to opposition
- I count Polish goverment on exile in London as Polonia - they've done a lot
- "Culture" and Jerzy Gedroyc - very significant part of Polonia till 2000
- radio "Free Europe", Jerzy Nowak Jeziorański and his group
- Poland and NATO - backing by American Polonia was one of maybe not so important but still some factor
- many others that I didn't list...

still, I believe that voting rights in Polish elections are for citizens of Poland whose life is in Poland. More or less it means they pay taxes in Poland. Current state resemble situation when someone cousins can vote what colour of flat should someones wall be painted. I like my cousins, but regarding colour of my wall they cann't do more than advice me something.

Not quite the same as coming back to the motherland and laying it on the line, is it?

A thousand American citizens coming to Poland and getting themselves arrested en mass would have had very significant news value. Even a hundred of them doing it would have certainly made the papers and forced the US govt to take action. But I'm unaware of any actual on the ground efforts being made.

The fact that I was able to spend years working with and around various voluntary organisations and never meet a single member of Polonia speaks volumes for how much they actually care about the country which they think they have a right to be involved in the governance of.

One out of every four-hundred Polish-Americans voted in the Polish elections of 2007. That's a grand total of 27,000 votes. Polish-Americans have very little influence on the outcome of Polish elections. The people that are decrying the malevolant influence of Polish-Americans on Polish elections are making a mountain out of a molehill. The expatriate English teachers that are advocating stripping Polish citizens of their right to vote are meddling in Polish affairs. Mind your own business English teachers. The Polish and American electoral systems are superior to your restrictive British one. You have nothing to teach the Poles in this respect.

27,000 too many. When was the last time many of them paid taxes, volunteered or in fact did anything for Poland?

As for meddling in Polish affairs - thank you, but we pay taxes here, so we have the moral right to comment on such things. Unlike the Polonia. The 80% vote for PiS just goes to show how utterly clueless they are about Poland and Polish issues.

Perhaps a basic test should be the question on the ballot paper "what is the Polish word for grandmother?". That would soon prevent Plastic Poles from voting ("Busia" being a wrong answer, obviously) while allowing legitimate Poles their say. A second test could be "What is the plural of pieróg"?

Really, the US Polonia are like red-headed stepchildren.

And yet again you completely ignore the question of why Polonia should have any influence on elections in a country which they have rejected.


Could you perhaps make the slightest effort to comment on the topic and not comment on the persons? For example: kindly explain why Polonia, as persons who refuse to accept any of the responsibilities which go with being Polish, seem to feel, in their tens of thousands, that they have a right to enjoy the rights which go with being Polish.

I'll tell you who I voted for if you tell me who you voted for. How's that?

I always vote Green in the local elections (in large part because I personally know and trust the guy). In the other elections I vote PO but only because they are the least worst option. Did I read somewhere that the EU is planning to ensure that only people who should have a voice in European elections will have one?

You think that because you pay money to the Polish state that that gives you the moral right to advocate stripping Polish citizens of their right to vote. This is a dirty little shopkeeper's/prostitute's reasoning. Money paid does not make you moral authorites regarding what rights the citizens of Poland should have. You are not a Polish citizen so stop meddling.

Could you please be so kind as to use less inflammatory language. You have already referred in this thread to the British as “ a nation of shopkeepers”, so it is clear who you wish to insult with the phrase dirty little shopkeepers.

And for the second time of asking, please comment on the issue, not the persons. Kindly explain why Polonia, as persons who refuse to accept any of the responsibilities which go with being Polish, seem to feel, in their tens of thousands, that they have a right to enjoy the rights which go with being Polish.

It's called "no representation without taxation", a fair moral principle. If you can't be bothered to contribute, why should you have the right to execute, so to speak?


I'll be a Polish citizen in less than 3 years. And you?

As for "prostitutes reasoning", who are you to doubt the oldest profession in the world?


I hope so, there should be uniform rules throughout the EU - but at the very least, voting should only be on the basis of an ID card and not a passport.

No it is not. People that are too poor to pay taxes should not be stripped of their rights as citizens. This sick shopkeeper's reasoning, that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing, would disenfranchise the poor, the monastic clergy, the unemployed and others that should have a voice in the governance of their country regardless of their incomes. Delphiandomine you do Scotland a diservice by perpetuating the stereotype of Scots as myopic ignorant pennypinchers.

Polonia are not too poor to pay taxes in Poland. Polonia earn more than the average US wage: they are simply to selfish to contribute to Poland.


Kindly refrain from using that insult again.


And if you could possibly refrain from racist comments, that would also be good.

And for the third time of asking, please comment on the issue, not the persons. Kindly explain why Polonia, as persons who refuse to accept any of the responsibilities which go with being Polish, seem to feel, in their tens of thousands, that they have a right to enjoy the rights which go with being Polish.

No-one is too poor in Poland to pay taxes - there's VAT on virtually everything that you can buy. That's enough to enfranchise them.


The poor, the clergy, the unemployed and others all pay taxes in Poland. Some of them pay a large part of their income in taxes. The Polonia pay nothing, like a cheap slut.


Personal insults again.

Polonians that are citizens of Poland accept the responsibilities that go with citizenship. If Poland wished to draft them they would go to war etc. This claim that they somehow reject Poland just because they live abroad is nonsense. If Poland calls them they will be there, and they send money back to their less affluent relatives in Poland as well. They are taxed by the governments of the countries in which they live. Surely you don't suggest that they should have to pay the Polish government too when they don't avail themselves of any of the Polish governments social services, nor do they contribute to the wear and tear of the Polish infrastructure. Citizens of Poland have the right to vote in Polish elections because voting is a right that comes with citizenship.

I wonder how much the average Pole does pay in taxes. Any idea?


Except doing anything to help Poland, of course.


No they don't. The vast majority of them have pledged allegiance to foreign powers and many have sworn to attack Poland when so ordered.


That is their choice and their problem.


They can certainly afford to pay. And people who live in Poland but use none of the government's social service or the education system or the health care system have to pay taxes here.

On another note, congratulations for making a post without insulting anybody and purely attempting to comment on the issues. Keep up the good work.

Do they? Polish citizens had an obligation to fight the Communists - did they? Naaah. They sat in America and talked about how patriotic they were. Then there's the part where many of them only obtained Polish citizenship after 2004 - because - surprise, it gave them an EU passport!


Would they? Perhaps Jonny might know best, but I suspect there's quite a few in the US that avoided their military obligations.


Nonsense? They reject Poland by refusing to pay anything to the country to which they claim to be patriotic to.


Poland is calling them right now. We have orphanages, schools, medical centres/etc all in need of people to volunteer. Where are the Polonia? Ah..that's right - too busy waving "pieorgies" in the air to bother with Poland's needy. Meanwhile, foreigners of non-Polish ethnicity come here and do the work.

If they were patriotic, they would pay taxes to Poland too. Poland needs the money more than them, after all.

When was the last time you helped Poland, Des?

I help Poland on this forum by standing up to ignorant English teachers that would disenfranchise Polish citizens.

Superb example of commenting on the issue and not the people!


So you mean that you have never done a single thing to help Poland. Not really a surprise that.

You do know that the vast majority of Polish people do not want anybody who calls their grandmother busia to have any say in how Poland is run, don't you?

PWEI, I called one of my great-grandmothers Busia not my grandmother. If you are going to keep harping on this off-topic issue like a repetitive barking dog you should at least get the story straight. I am a Polish-American but I like most Polish-Americans do not have Polish citizenship. I suspect that the relatively few Polish-Americans that do have Polish citizenship call their grandmothes Babicia, unless they, or their parents, are from that region in Poland, pointed out by Ziemowit, that does use "Busia" to refer to their grandmothers.

I have been commenting on the issue here all along and I must say it is very funny to see how you PWEI and your croney Dopeyandomine pretend that I am not. The people reading this thread can see you for the liars that you are.

But you don't help homeless alcoholics, abused children, beaten wives, terminal cancer patients, pensioners who spend all their money on medicine, desperate people in former PGR settlements, civilians who struggle to adjust to life after serving their country and more. All these groups need help in Poland - where are you?

Tell you what Des - if you want, you can come and help in a public kindergarten here. They could really use a native speaker of English to help them - both teachers and children. The kindergarten is very poor, as the local council simply doesn't have the money to invest. The director is a lovely woman, who would arrange everything for you.

What about it? I'll even pay your flight ticket.

Again, a superb example of of commenting on the issue and not the people!


As was pretty much noted yesterday, your post was edited by a moderator because it was too on-topic and terms such as "jackasses", "scumbag" and "ponces" are entirely on topic.


Perhaps you could point out the posts in which we lie? Instead of just throwing out a baseless accusation.
Let me give you an example: in this post you claim that "I have engaged in no personal abuse." and in this post I point out the abuse that you have posted in this thread.

Now, any chance you can explain why people who are so selfish that they refuse to pay even a grosze to the Polish Treasury, even though they could easily afford to pay what the average Polish taxpayer pays, should have any say in how the money which the Polish taxpayer pays is spent?


I'll throw in half of the price of that ticket (paid now into an escrow account and released to him when he completes the school year).

I think we need to take a step back, guys.

It's obvious that the US Polonia have no real interest in helping Poland - while they're quick to write nasty letters to "enemies", they simply aren't interested in the real problems that Poland has.

I think it's very telling that I've invited several of them to actually come here (at my expense) and help Poland - and not one of them has even had the decency to ask for more details.

Perhaps that could be a novel solution - voting rights can be given to the US Polonia on condition of completing a year long voluntary service contract in Poland.

there are many here who don't realize that pol-ams get to vote. when they are informed.. it doesn't look good... the sooner these 'foreigners' lose their vote, the better it will be.

There are folk who post on here almost every week asking about life in Poland. their misconceptions are there for all to see. and yet some of these same people have a right to vote. it's fcuking ridiculous.

To call somebody a 'ponce', i.e.to accuse them of living off immoral earnings and facilitating prostitution is actually slanderous and in many jurisdictions including Poland, actionable per se.

This is a prime example of someone who doesn't understand the Polish laws, the Polish people (whatever their ethnicity), the Polish culture, the Polish weltanschaung, the Polish economy or, let's face it, Poland but believes people thousands of miles away should choose the government.

You mean, I am an idiot????? :):):)

Here is my answer: :):):):)

you all seem to be ganging up on him now

his great grandmother was subject to the might of the Atlantic in her journey to the land of the free
she had to battle sea sickness and perhaps might have got a nasty splinter from the decking

on a more serious note, does anyone know how many generations this US Polish citizenship right to vote thingy goes back?
clearly great grandmothers do not count
but if your grandmother was Polish could you apply for Polish citizenship?