US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński

If she isn't contributing to the money which is to be spent, why should she have any say in how it is spent? Why should she have the right to tell other people how their money is to be spent?

As the decisions made by the Polish government do not directly affect her, why should she have the right to tell other people how they must live their lives?

The simple fact that in society people have both rights and responsibilities: people who refuse to accept their responsibilities should not be allowed to excise the rights given to those who accept their responsibilities.

Because she is a citizen of Poland. Poland is country not a business run by stockholders.

She is still Polish. That fact obviously irritates you but it's true. Moving to another country doesn't make you a non-Pole.


That's a wonderful view you have but in the end, it all comes down to law. She is a citizen and can vote. Period.

Yes, Poland is a country. With residents who pay their taxes. Fortunately the EU are in the process of sorting out the voting rules to stop such anomalies as non-residents voting.


Though her 'vote' is registered in one electoral district only and statistically is worthless. And in any case, once the new rules are in place the only thing she'll be voting for is 'Poland's got talent'.

With rights come responsibilities. She does not accept those responsibilities and so should not exercise those rights. Such a shame that you are too selfish and egotistical to understand the most fundamental principles of social co-existence.


Doesn't irritate me at all. If people want to be selfish twats who enjoy only the good bits and leave all the less good bits to be done by other people, that's up to them. There are way too many selfish people in the world to get irritated by all of them.


The thing about bad laws is that they get changed. The actions of Polonia are clearly showing Poland that the law permitting people who have no real connection with Poland to vote is a law which needs to be changed.

These "actions" what are they? Voting for a political party which lost the elections anyway? The vitriolic arguments these expatriates are putting forth in favor of disenfranchising polish citizens abroad are even weirder and more pathetic when one considers the fact that only 27,000 USA Polonians voted in the Polish elections in 2007 and it seems unlikely that number has drastically grown this time around. These expatriates are all riled up about a few thousand votes because they resent the fact that people can still be Polish and not live in Poland, whereas they live in Poland and can never be Polish. Of course they could take Polish citizenship and become Poles, like Scots, Tartars and others did down through the ages, but these expariates know that it would be a lie inside because their hearts which are too withered and shrunken by petty resentments to ever be truly Polish.

Let me ask politely for you to please keep this debate civilized and not resort to throwing out misogynistic insults like "twat". That's another reason why my exgirlfriend left Poland - there was a lot of sexism.

You contradict yourself by saying that her voting is somehow selfish yet you said yourself she doesn't get directly affected by Poland. If anything, that is a very selfless act to vote for a party that you feel will improve the lives of people who live in a nation that you don't live in.


Their actions? Are you referring to the fact that the majority voted for a party you didn't like?

Yawn. Yet more personal abuse from somebody who knows so little about being Polish that he doesn't even know what a Polish grandmother is called. No attempt from him to explain why people should continue to enjoy their privileges when they have refused to meet their responsibilities. Instead just yet more personal abuse. Which shows us that there simply is no argumentation which can justify people being utterly selfish.

PWEI, I have engaged in no personal abuse but rather made an accurate deduction from the fact that you, and others like you who aren't citizens of Poland, are advocating taking voting rights away from citizens of Poland because you are warped. You ostensibly claim that this is because being a Polish citizen isn't a "real" enough connection to Poland. The real reasons you are advocating this disenfranchisement is because Polonians in America mostly voted for a party you don't like, along with the resentment of Polish people you have in general.

27,000 people thats like a small town or village in Poland. Perhaps if you get your way and Polonia is disenfranchised you can then take the vote away from rural villages in Poland that don't vote the way you like too. Where will you stop when you decide that all Poles are equal but some Poles are more equal than others? I ask this question but I don't expect an answer as you never answered my previous question regarding what specifically were these "actions" that you claim American Polonia has committed which warrant taking away their rights as citizens of Poland.

Of course you haven't: you post was edited by a moderator because it was too nice and terms such as "jackasses", "scumbag" and "ponces" are not at all abusive. But at least it is nice to see you varying your debating technique from 'throwing around personal abuse' to 'simply lying about what one said'.

Hahahahaha, completely off-topic there PWEI. Polonia is laughing at you. You've been pwned trick!

A bunch embittered radicals.

Rough translation: you acknowledge that you are utterly unable to explain why people should be allowed to be completely selfish and you wish you hadn't just been caught lying.

Does Polonia know that a proven liar is claiming to represent it? You're clearly happy to lie here: what's to say that you aren't also lying about being Polish in the slightest? Poles certainly aren't selfish egomaniacs but you clearly are.

You have to love the way that Americans feel the need to involve themselves in all sorts of things that doesn't concern them - they even want to interfere in Polish politics!

Americans don't vote in Polish elections. They barely vote in their own elections. It's the Polish ex-pats who are voting in Polish elections, they're not Polish-Americans.

Poland has a professional army these days.

Sure, and "Polonia" don't pay for this... yet they are "patriots" and can influence where Poland will send its troops... funny

Polonia doesn't pay for anything which Poland needs. The only positive thing that they do for Poland is staying out of Poland.

Now now. They send boxes of junk to Poland and expect that people will be thankful for it.

Strangely enough, I've actually met more non-Polonia Americans that have done stuff for Poland than the Polonia themselves. Shameful.

Well, I wouldn't be so harsh on Polonia. They've done a lot in times of communist regime. They've done a lot after that. But it is all the past now. All I want is that Platonic love for Poland should go without a voting right - that is all.

Now that I think about it, none of the Peace Corps people I met out here were Polonia. And I have never met any VSO people who were Polonia either.


You mean 'they ran away and stayed out'? That's not really being unselfish, is it? Although I suppose that the selfishness that they displayed when they abandoned Poland explains why they think that they should have all of the rights that come with Polish citizenship but none of the responsibilities.

[quote=PWEI]Now that I think about it, none of the Peace Corps people I met out here were Polonia. And I have never met any VSO people who were Polonia either.

they don't need to

their grandparents paid the price for them by enduring an arduous crossing of the Atlantic in flimsy craft to a land where fear and bigotry would be a thing of the past

some of them were seasick along the way and it is their sacrifice which has enabled their spawn to have the right to stick their noses into Poland's affairs

You know what? **** off from our country. It's none of your business who we choose. You don't live here, you have no idea what's going on here and you don't have to bear the consequences of your stupid choices! Why the hell are you treating Poles in Poland like some silly children who can't choose for themselves??

Come here and live here, and then you'll have the moral right to decide. I just hate this tone of superiority in Polonia's voice :/ Yeah right, who are you to know better?


But it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! If we want we can sell evbery little bit (not that it's true, but...), because it's our country! Not yours! You've got nothing to do with it, get your nose out of the matters that don't concern you! Real Poles despise stuck up Americans like you!

Probably Poles prefer tricky Dons to possessed Saviours. :):):):)


Strong words. :):):):) I can agree.

I'm a patriot, I work and pay taxes here, I look after the environment, I vote in the elections. I speak nice, clear Polish and so will my children. I'm contributing to society. I would never vote PiS. They are not my choice They are either power hungry politicians or deluded poor, old people. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you don't have to vote PiS to be a patriot. The only PiS voter who I know well is spending his life scrounging money from the state and is making horrific ortographic mistakes in his native language. Yes, so very patriotic.

yes, you don't have to vote PiS, but if you vote PO you are an idiot.

Problem with Poland is that we lost our elite, and people who would be fitted for this job are not organized or connected. Whats more there is pseudo -elite with monies and power.

Point is that is not enough to pay taxes and life nice quiet life but I understand you, my question remains - where is alternative for PO, SLD, PSL, PiS, - surely not with Palikot?

A sad fact is that only PiS seems to be able gather some support.

No they did not. They lost the elections big time.

Cool story bro. I've met more Polish-Americans who support Poland. o_O

not really, they have about 30% support, there no party for patriotic voters which could gather support of 10% not to mention 30% - that is the problem !

PO and post-communists are not an option!

Support as in buying their grandmother a "World's greatest Busia" t-shirt or as in actually doing something useful?

I have been in Poland for more than a decade and a half and I cannot recall meeting a single member of Polonia who was out here doing voluntary work.