What do the Poles hate and love about the U.S.?

So, country's such Czech Republic and Lithuania or Estonia had so much more sense and leverge then Poland?
Maybe ?!

I wouldn't say those countries have more leverage, no. The Baltic states are useful strategically, as are those on the Caucas. America is thinking about the future when entering into 'cordial international relations' with them. We've witnessed a cooling off of Polish-American relations due to the placing of the missile shield on the back burner.

I think it ultimately hinges on administrative/bureaucratic concerns. It shouldn't be the case that innocent Poles lose out due to the foolishness of some but that remains to be the position.

apparently

Which poll after poll indicated the Polish pubilc didn't want anyway. :- S

Why on earth would you be disappointed about NOT getting something you told the other party you didn't want in the 1st place?

Actually, I don't get this either. The Polish crying and whining about not getting the missile shield (when it wouldn't have protected Poland anyway!) was absolutely bizzare to say the least.

You both have a damn good point. Why incur the wrath of Russia? Little Kaczyński just barked his way through those negotiations. Most Poles were more than smart enough to see through the rationale for having it. I guarantee you, the powers that be in Poland would be made to look very silly when Russia fired a minor part of its arsenal of missiles from Kalingrad. Yet again, business almost gets people in trouble. Look at Obama, that two-faced hound, proposing weapons to Taiwan when smiling like a Chesire cat to Hu Jintao when in China. Isn't he aware that he is treading on eggshells through potential divestment?

No chance of that happening right now, it will be a threat once China completes diversification. Right now it's a financial kill switch for both economies, in 10 years time it will be a viable weapon.

Well, if you have seen their 3-pronged recent threat to America, you will know that they mean business. I just meant that America could be in a sticky situation unnecessarily but they wouldn't unleash such a potent weapon so early in the game, you are right. Taiwan would be financially weaker due to the deal and militarily still instantly crushable. It's the token gesture aspect of it.

Internal politics, has nothing to do with missile shield, plus some media interest - average Pole don't give a s..te about it!


Fine, but its still doesn't answer question about NATO and EU members like Czech Republic or Hungary,what gives?


As much as I would like to believe it,......I think is simplified overmuch :)

At least someone is buying US products. I think they'll take what they can get right now.

Ironside, in the case of the Czech Republic, maybe it has sth to do with the fact that they recently held the Presidency of the EU. Maybe?

Convex, that's true. Plus, the US has an obligation under an international treaty to supply them with assistance. It didn't come completely out of the blue and isn't without precedent.

As you and I have stated time and time again, show us the f'kin numbers. I think it is based on their estimates of overstays...but, I'm too lazy to write them and ask them for the stats..

What a snow job. BS period. You really have no idea what you are talking about. Visa Waver Program was not tied into NATO membership negotiation nor missile defense, never was. It always was and is at the discretion of US government (as it should be) and it’s their prerogative who are the members of that exclusive club. It’s a way for the US government to reward friendly nations and to show the world who their special friends are. It’s not set in stone, this privilege can be revoked at any moment to any nation. It’s up to US congress not its military as to who is on the list and every so often it’s revised. Since it is customary for the countries to reciprocate in the similar fashion to the policies of the other nation in regards to visas granted to its citizens, I call on Polish government to revise the way they deal with visas for Americans entering Poland, including Polish Americans, if not traveling to Poland on Polish passport. As they say what’s good for the goose….

So be honest about it and say it like it is, you just don’t view us as friends or like it was stated earlier, it’s just another tool in the hands of Jewish lobby in US.

That's the point, it should have been tied to missile defense. You have a bargaining chip, you use it. That's how international negotiations work. Poland decided not to use it for whatever reason.


There is no country in the world that allows their citizens to enter on a foreign passport. If you're talking about visitor visas, Poland no longer has control over the terms of short term visas.

Oh yes it does, Poland is a sovereign nation and any visa issued to any citizen of any nation outside of the EU is still up to Polish government. US is such a nation so they can enter other EU states if they want but since they have two separate policies towards the member states even when it comes to the issue of short term visa Poland can always claim the discretion, it’s just that they have not put that to a test yet because for some reason they brown nose US government or at least have the Brussels demand same treatment to all EU states. Either it’s one entity or separate period.

Piorun is right, the process is rigorous as I've heard enough Poles describe it to me. They have to go through a clear procedure.

Why wasn't it tied into the negotiations? Poland blew it right there.

Poland also had another two golden chances with Iraq and Afghanistan to tie the visa waiver issue into their support of the wars - especially with Iraq, where the US was desperate for countries to join the coalition.


And who is the commander-in-chief of the military? The President. If the USA wanted Poland to cooperate, then Poland should have insisted on the visa waiver being granted in exchange for her support. Certainly, fro a Polish point of view, the USA is taking, taking, taking and giving very little.


Since Schengen, it's a non-issue.


I'm afraid I can't take anyone seriously who believes that there is such a thing as the "Jewish lobby" outside of Israel.


It depends, the UK doesn't really care less about what you enter with. But certainly, to many countries, it's illegal to identify yourself as a different citizen.


You're not quite right. Poland has no say over the issuance of short term tourist stamps, and they have to abide by Schengen rules when it comes to admissions. Likewise, Poland has no control over short term Schengen visas issued by other countries. There exists some very limited discretion in the event of border control carried out at an internal border (or otherwise) - but in all reality, their hands are tied.

BS. Military has nothing to do with issuing visas period.


Like I have said earlier it can always be tested or Brussels will lose its credibility.


You got that one right. Even the **** that was part of a deal earlier they seem to renege on.


Same here, for someone that denies it.


Exactly my point, since the US citizen has to leave US on US passport because you can’t be a dual citizen even those Americans who are in position of Polish passport would still have to apply for entry visa.


Only for EU members, everyone else is in a different boat.

He said 'outside the EU' though, delph. Surely the Polish government retains the ultimate right to decide in the case of the admission of Africans, for example.

The Polish government can't unilaterally grant visa free travel to Uganda for instance. They are bound by European Council decisions.

That's TO Uganda, though. I was talking about admission.

True but what Poland can do is to reciprocate in the same fashion to the way US is doing business and Brussels can’t object either.

Right, I was talking about admissions as well. Should have read "to Ugandans".


Using the same example, if Uganda granted visa free travel to Poles, Poland couldn't reciprocate without breaking the Schengen Agreement. That bit of sovereignty was traded out the same way that monetary policy will be outsourced to Brussels once Poland adopts the Euro.

Ah, I didn't know that. My EU major was at a time when the Schengen Acquis was very much in its infancy. I'm showing my age now :(

Your point is? Who cares about Uganda, if a Ugandan citizens is granted a visa to Poland he can only travel within Poland still has to apply for the visa to other European countries. Believe it or not but Poland can and dose issue visas to the citizens of Uganda China and others, and Brussels have nothing to say about it as long as visa is issued only to Poland not a Schengen visa.

My point is there is no short term Polish visa anymore, there is only a schengen visa, legislated by Brussels. Long term visas are still under control of the Polish government.

And we are discussing potential reciprocation of visa restriction for US. US has separate visa agreement with each individual country, it does not deal with EU as one entity and although it is the same policy of the EU states for the entire Schengen area for US citizens, it’s only by courtesy and choice of its member states not by some law imposed by EU in regards to none EU members such as US.

Right, and the bargaining tool that Poland had in the international arena was missile defense and troops in Iraq. Poland did not use that chip in order to secure visa free travel for its citizens.

As it was explained to you before contrary to what you believe Military dose not issue visas or can set policy in that regard for the US, only Congress can deal in such matters so that bargaining chip you speak of is none existent and your excuse is nothing but a snow job to distract from the real reason to why US has such policy towards Poland. Now be honest it can’t be the friend issue now can it?, since we supported you on some issues against the wishes of other EU members proving once and for all that each EU member not only that it can peruse individual foreign policy when it comes to deal with other none EU members but it also dose.

Even if Poland blew it as you put it it dose not change the fact that US government is opposed to such a deal to happen within Immediate future. So no matter what Poland dose or say it will never happen, so stop putting the blame on Poland as somehow it was ever possible, US government will simply not allow it Case Closed.

Do you really think that foreign policy isn't influenced by national security issues? I think that Poland could have better used the issue of missile defense to further the immigration agenda, but decided not to.