Where is loyalty of Polish diaspora in America? In USA or in Poland? What is priority?

yes sirrrrr, this forums is informative like that...


just re-froze.. lol


your government crashing can't be a good thing


you two are just babbling about nothing.. Polish Americans are just Americans, just as Softsong says in his post.


nothing new there Shawn.. both are punks, that's for sure.. the delph one has a mouth oh him too..


seems you are neither Polish nor American just from that statement.


crow is talking about the evil american empire attacking poland in the nearest of futures.. what would you do in that condition? ;)


i guarantee you recited the pledge of allegiance to the flag at least once in all those years in school.. oops


nah, you are mudding things up for him with all this reality and truth.. that's not how he and crow operate..


"me first".. definitely bud


damn.. more facts to kill the grand delusions of deplh and crow.. sheesh girl.. ;) :D :D


not just some but crow and delph, yes. at least on PF.. this is their land..


pa·tri·ot·ism /ˈpeɪtriəˌtɪzəm or, especially Brit., ˈpæ-/ Show Spelled[pey-tree-uh-tiz-uhm or, especially Brit., pa-]
-noun
dictionary.reference.com/browse/patriotism

devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty


yes and you definitely should click the link above for the definition because you don't seem to understand what patriotism means. there was 0 talk of loyalty in your paragraph.. ZERO


in some of the minds these distinctions are that clear.. there is no gray area.. haven't you been reading these forums for a while now? ;)


lol.. you do? yeah?


yes of course.. but so does understanding that.. and that is not 100% chance

I'm sure Japanese Americans had this dilemma after Pearl Harbor.

...But we threw em in camps before they could choose.

Actually, no. :-)

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness and they maintain political neutrality. The reasoning being that Jesus said, "My kingdom is no part of this world."

I am no longer active in this religion, but I am out of school, so it has never come up.

you went to some kind of Jehova schools k-12?

btw. a pledge or the anthem are politically neutral.. they are neither leftist or rightist ideas..

No, I went to normal public schools. Jehovah's Witnesses won a legal case many years ago. The pledge is not considered neutral. You pledge your allegiance to the United States of America. Their argument is that only God should have that type of allegiance.

But, it is also drilled into Jehovah's Witnesses, that they must be model citizens in all other areas. Total honesty, paying taxes without cheating, and doing civic duty. You are an ambassador for Christ's Kingdom, therefore no swearing allegiance to any earthly government, but respecting the laws of the country you are in. They are taught that the nations of the earth are God's superior authority and bring law and order. However, if there is ever a conflict between God and Country, "...give Caesar's things to Caesar, and God's things to God."

Along with Poles and Jews, many Jehovah's Witnesses died in the concentration camps. They had the opportunity to Heil Hitler, and live, but refused. However, they could be trusted to shave the Nazi officers and obey in all things, except allegiance to an earthly leader especially one in conflict with God.

Model citizens, but neutral towards all governments requiring allegiance. Only allegiance to God's Kingdom.

you never ever recited the pledge.. even in the early years? your parents went to the school and said, that you aren't to make such pledges? and the teachers remembered that?


ok, cool. thnx

Yes, that is correct. And it was a little scary as a young child to take such a stand. But, I was taught that it is o.k. to be different as a matter of principle.

Some teachers in the assembly hall would frown and grab you, but then they would learn either from you or your own teacher that it was a stand for a religious belief, rather than disrespect.

What strange religious belief would that be?

Edit: OK, I missed your previous post. Model citizens who are not willing to defend their country from enemies?

Well, it is an idealized belief. And if everyone practiced it, there would be no enemies.

And while there is a lot of accusations on this board about who killed who, (whether the Russians were worse, or the Germans worse), at least they can say they stood up to Hitler and and were good citizens of Poland, Germany and the USA, but would not follow Hitler's orders that went against their God-given beliefs. They were willing to die for this principle.

Others had no choice as they could hardly stop being Jews or Poles. But they were offered freedom in exchange for their allegiance to Hitler, and they would rather die than do that.

They obey all laws, and probably are more honest on taxes than those who swear allegiance.
So, they are model citizens, but give their allegiance only to God.

Actual Christianity.

Any belief in something that can't be shown to exist is by definition strange.

Though the Jehovah's Witnesses live model lives of decency, reflection and hard work.

Loyalty is something not to be mentioned only, but acted upon. Nowhere did my answer project treachery. I am loyal to my land, and this is something internal. My forefathers have shed blood for the sovereignty of this land.


I try ...

these guys are living in the past. Future wars will be fought on purely economic bases, and I don't hear anyone saying that it is unpatriotic working for a foreign company in Poland or selling land to foreigners. There are countries (like Costa Rica, for example) where at least 51 percent of interest in any company there has to be held by Costa Rican nationals.

Sometimes, it's not so hard to separate the wheat from the chaff....


A proud Canadian Tradition since 1867. It helps keep out those nasty neighbors from the south from invading northwards.


It will be an safe and orderly transition of power. More of the same in my opinion, with a Conservative minority being placed back in power. Too many elections in a short period... Something like the fifth in 11 years?

My wife has voted in each of those elections, so we can assume she has taken her civic responsibility seriously here. Also voted in at least 2 Polish elections while here. But then again, according to the rules of the forum, she probably shouldn't have that right.

How does one actually measure loyalty?

That is why we are thinking of renaming the Defense Department the Love In Department and letting Florida housewives run it. Had you been brought up in a decent Polish home, with Polish traditions always valueing independence and sovereignty of your country, you would also feel compeled to be a patriot in your adopted home. These are higher values above your immediate need to consume. Wonder what went wrong in your early years to make you say you are not a partiot. Children usually grow up loving their country.

Really? That would be why some Polish nobles decided to sell out Poland rather than accept the May 3rd Constitution, and that would be why many Poles collaborated with the Soviet Union (even passively) for so long? Don't forget - most of the opposition to the Communist rule wasn't political, but economic.

Those "traditions" that you speak of are nothing but a myth. Heck, if "independence" and "sovereignty" were truly valued - why would Poland be Catholic? It, after all, pledges total submission to the Vatican.

And let's not forget that many Poles are very conformist - the education system shows this.

Polish Americans have always been 'America First' unlike some others...The older generations still keep many of the Polish traditions, in terms of holidays, religion, food and such.

For the current generation of Polish immigrants, it is hard to say, as there is more fragmentation, in other words, they tend to be spread out, and are not as community oriented as were preceding generations, who lived in the same neighborhoods, had their own schools and churches....America is a very different country from the one that the first or second wave of Poles came to when they arrived...It is darker, many more Blacks and Latinos, especially in the big cities.

The old Polish neighborhoods still exist however, and are among the cleanest and safest...Poles do not shoot each other...And they certainly wouldn't kill each other over a peanut butter sandwich, or $10, like American Blacks do.

oh 1jola.. you just like to make assumptions about people. Very judgemental. What happened in my childhood, lol, wouldn't you like to know.
I have a firm stereotype in my mind about you, too.
But, the forces are at play here are very simple. I like to surround myself with smart, honest, open-mided people. I'm close to my family, which settled within few miles. And I can't stand Polish winters.

As far as "loving you country", that's just empty words. Pointing out flaws is a necessary step to making any changes for the better, on Polish forums they are about Poland, on Space Coast forums, they are about local issues. And calling people unpartiotic is usually just a way of controlling them, keeping them from expressing dissatistaction with whatever decisions their government makes.

To you, yes, but not to most citizens of any given country. To some, loving their children or their parents are just empty words. Such virtues are generally recognized as good in any society though. In our culture, Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna are part of our tradition. But wait, you don't even consider these as virtues, so you would not flinch if someone wants to invade your country, there would be no reaction from you, nothing motivating you to defend the land you call home. Pathetic moral stance.

Just to remind you:




How is criticizing your government unpatriotic? I think you might be looking through some local issue there in Hicksville, Fla, where rednecks yell at each other 'you ain't patriotic if you don't like NASCAR.'

No. Fairness first. Justice first. This is the patriotism of free men, proud of their humanity above all.

you need to step away from your video games, dude. Most people I that say they answer to these higher powers, lie, cheat and steal through life, don't get along with their families and are envious of anyone else's success. They hope for a war so they can show how special they think they are. You, talking about moral standards? Ha! Try going through life without hurting others, even if it's just by words alone.

More accurate "...Pathetic cynical stance"

He learned this idiotic "argument" from another now ex-poster for whom it clearly did not work. In fact, he claimes that his repeated use of it caused him personal problems. You reap what you sow.


I'm trying, which has nothing to do with love for my country and my willingness to defend it when someone wants to invade it. That is what is expected of all able citizens, and that's why a charge of treason carries the most severe consequences. If your job requires a security clearance in the future, the nice men will explain to you that patriotism is indeed a virtue and not a myth.

Then, we'll HAVE to pick up this discussion again when US invades Poland (or vice versa). Until then, in order to be a good patriot, all one has to do, apparently, is to talk sh!t and fly the flag at appropriate holidays.

Shoot, and I thought you were ready to throw out some Emma Goldman, Bakhunin, or some other fellow revolutionary to convice me patriotism is evil or a myth. Just thought you had more to say. It is very popular in the leftist circles to try to convince people we are no longer part of nations but we should be now Global Village People. But since that is not the case, I take you are looking at what patriotism is through what you personally can observe. Having lived in your neck of the woods for a long time, I can sympathize with you as the notions about patriotism there can range from completely ridiculous to extremely dangerous. The interesting thing is that you forgot what it had meant and means in your old country.

which reminds me of a question I always wanted to ask here:
which of the Poles living is US fly the American flag on appropriate holidays?


lol.. just some common sense.. if leftists were a group, they would not have me either!
I do find it surprising that, since you defend the Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna so fiercely, you didn't think much of that oath you had to solemny swear when getting your US citizenship. Then, I thought you were more of a pragmatist.

They are various groups and these two were anarchists. Oh, I see, you're an independent thinker just temporarily out of independent thoughts. Now, are patriots void of common sense since everyone should, using their common sense as you do, come to the conclusion that patriotism is not a virtue and in fact it is bad? You should first see what patriotism is not before you start saying silly things.

Nah, just old good nihilism.

My American flag is still at Walmart.

I hope you at least have a bumper sticker,you know something appropriate like "United we stand" or "Support our troops"?