Canada Increasingly a Gateway for Undocumented Polish Immigrants Entering the U.S.

What’s the matter? Recesion hit you so hard that you can’t afford your own interpreter?


At least he would have been honest; something he’s obviously not comfortable with if that’s the case that is.


At a press conference? Seriously listen to yourself, you’re the host!! Have you forgotten what it means to be a host?

What's the matter? Are you admitting that you can't provide any qualified interpreter? :-)


You say it now but if he did, I'm sure you'd be talking about an insult anyway.


Well, she was clearly Polish. Most likely one from Chicago and applied for that job. I bet there are much better English speaking Poles in Chicago. Whoever gave his OK for her to interpret at this meeting is to be blamed for her miserable performance and if she was a little bit more realistic about her English skills, she wouldn't be there to begin with and we wouldn't have to argue over this mishap right now.

There’s nothing to argue about, what makes you think she is a bad interpreter? Did she make a blunder somewhere in her interpretation? How could you judge her skills or her knowledge? Do you know enough Polish to even make that call? I thought so, proving once again you talk for conversations sake alone. I’m not trying to insult you but there’s no easy way of saying it, there’s simply no substance to what you’re saying. How can you be taken seriously? Best you can hope for is to be taken as opinionated fool.

Of course she did. Her accent is so bad that it takes a lot of good will and great ears from an American to understand her.


It's my language.


Mysle ze tak.


Well, if I was you, I'd probably come back with something like "it's funny but I thought the same about you" but I'll just let it go as you're unable to determine the level of my intelligence or my knowledge.

Really no need to continue our "exchange" as you already started with insults due to the lack of reasonable options.

jwojcie wrote:


I didn't read through those two links but I noticed something very off about this data you provided.

You're saying 216 "deportable aliens" in 2009. First and foremost, I'm curious as to the exact definition of "deportable" in regards to this specific data set. Reason being is that it simply makes no sense if the number of illegal immigrants from Poland was 70,000 in 1996 and now, it's 216??? If you are an illegal immigrant, my assumption is that you are "deportable", right?

If the number was 70,000 14 years ago, there's simply no way that number is now 216.

Ironside wrote:


news to me. how long did you "live" there Ironside? Where did you live? What did you do there?

Ironside wrote:


such as?

Ironside wrote:


I think we can all agree that criminal activity goes on in Washington.

Ironside wrote:


YES IT IS.

I'll tell you what Ironside, how would you feel if millions of immigrants started pouring into Poland starting next year? OH, and you know what else they're going to do? None of them are going to pay taxes, yet they're all going to use billions and billions of zlotych in government services. Still sound "uncriminal"?

As I said before, if you are Polish, you simply have no concept of illegal immigration. People don't move here and even when they do, they generally leave within a couple years or at the very least, do not stick around long enough to retire here and collect government pension.

Ironside wrote:


So if I steal say 100,000zl from Urzad Skarbowy and the police don't catch me, as long as enough time goes by after I do it, it's OK? After 10 years, it's no longer a crime?

Oh, right right. What I did was only "not nice and fair".

Just curious : how can one be illegal in US yet is still able to use goverment services ( health care , welfare , food stamps etc.) , who made those decisions to feed, provide shelter and care for those bad illegal immigrants ? and most of all WHY is this "illegal immigrant" such a big institution providing not only the illegals with exceptional hospitality but also providing thousands of Americans with jobs = millions of dollars in tax revenues ?

You made it all possible my American friends , you did . Illegal immigrants are using what your country is giving them , that's all .

Cheers from Canada.

I dont know if any of you have seen this before but I will post it anyway :

.thenews.pl/international/artykul141387_doc-on-polish-immigrants-slams -us-immigration-system.html

One sad story not only because it relates to Polish people but also because these kind of deportations are real and present .

Up here in Canada we do have similar cases which from time to time are being published or broadcasted and even with great opposition from different groups and organizations those deportation are being carried out anyways.

Please add www to above link.

kosynier wks wrote:


because regardless of what your laws are, some costs are simply unavoidable. for example:

someone is in the USA illegally and gets pregnant. that person then goes into labor and is rushed to a hospital where they have no insurance, no passport, no papers whatsoever. what is that hospital supposed to do now? let the woman die, along with the child, in the front of the building? no, she gets taken care of, the baby gets several days of care and it costs tens of thousands of dollars to provide that service.

kosynier wks wrote:


I'm sorry. I just don't understand what that means.

kosynier wks wrote:


I'm not going to argue that the system isn't flawed. It certainly has its problems. What I will continue to argue though is either way, being illegal in America, no matter how you scramble it, is a crime.

That is a shame you didn't read through, I actually have hoped that some american will do and explain. This is data directly from your Homeland Security Department... 70000 illegals in 1996 was estimation, 216 Polish persons "deportable aliens" in 2009 are probably people catched by your security forces. The point is that data from YOUR Homeland Security Department don't support 9,8% out of thin air refusals of USA embassy. All this grumbling by americans here how Poles are breaking tourist visa are based on the past and is not supported by current numbers. I bet that USA embassy clerks are no better. I will restate those numbers:


Of course we can assume that USA embassy clerks are almost 100% effective and their ability of prediction is close to Pythia prophecies... But let me be sceptic about it.

Anyway, after some thinking that refusal rate don't suprise me in the light of previous behaviour of Poles. I mean there is not small legal Polish community in the USA. Their relatives, Polish citizens in 70', 80' early 90' were going there, working and overstaying, and they are all over USA databases. Now even if those people, now in many cases rather older really want to just visit, they are instantly showing up on the clerk screens and are refused. So Poles are paying for their past, well sh..t happens. But give me a break with talking how vast amount of Poles cann't wait to get to the USA and become illegal immigrant there...

jwojcie wrote:


that sounds more likely.

jwojcie wrote:


sorry, but you're contradicting yourself. you just wrote 70,000 illegals in 1996. you don't think that having 70,000 illegal polish immigrants justifies a 9.8% refusal rate? even if that number has fallen through the years and is now 50,000....hell, 40,000.....that should still support a 9.8% refusal rate.

If there are 50,000 illegal poles living in the USA right now, imagine if the USA opened its borders completely to Poland. Visa free travel. You don't think that number would double, triple, quadruple?

Isnt that normal in any civilized country ? What would happen to an American pregnant woman in Poland without polish health coverage ? She would get to stay at the hospital , she would be treated just like any other pregnant woman . So your example isnt very convincing or its just bad example. The whole point of this illegal immigration is to stop them from coming in to the country , then most of your problems with illegal immigrants will disappear ...which leads to this


It means that I have serious doubts about US really wanting to stop illegal immigrants coming into the country ,just imagine if there were none of them able to sneak into US , your borders would be impenetrable , completely no leaks then how many of your border jobs , immigration jobs , lawyer jobs etc. would be lost ? Do you think that those lawyers and officers would go and pick strawberries 16hrs a day for $5/hr ? Do you think they would haul bricks at the construction site 16hrs a day for $7hr ? I think not .

Given that they can simply "vanish" in the US as well (I've heard from a couple of Poles who managed it) - and have a society to integrate to, it would certainly be more appealing to head to the US than many other places.

I don't think it would be a flood, but it's not unreasonable to expect that there would be at least another 50k-100k heading there. And worse still, it wouldn't be the educated ones, but rather the people from villages at the bottom of society.

(anyway, it's America's right as a sovereign state to decide what's what. Shame on the EU for not demanding equal treatment, but that's another matter)

kosynier wks wrote:


yes, that is just what would happen in Poland as well. Only in Poland, if it happens once a day, it happens 1,000 times a day in America. apples and oranges.

kosynier wks wrote:


i think we can both agree now that it is, in fact, a good example.

jwojcie wrote:


funny you should mention that, it's probably exactly what my great grandfathers did when they were building my country.

delphiandomine wrote:


you know what though Delph, like always, money trumps shame. america loses very little (or possibly even gains some) by refusing a poor country like Poland visa free travel but the day strong EU countries start doing the same to America....well.....a slightly different result.

I'm not saying right or wrong but you know as well as I do, it's just how it is.

delphiandomine wrote:


also a great point. take a look at the USA.....it's enormous. 50 states to choose from.....and hide in. Imagine how easy it would be to "get lost" in the north west or better yet....Alaska. No such thing as "zameldowanie" in the USA.

Yup. I think we all know fine that America pulls the strings here. Even now that they've introduced the ESTA fee - the EU is doing absolutely nothing in return. If they can't even apply a simple $14 fee in return, what hope is there of the EU demanding visa-free access for Poland?


The funny thing for me is why Poland didn't take advantage when they could - if they had refused to commit any troops to Iraq (when Bush was desperate for someone, anyone to join the "coalition of the willing") until the visa waiver was dropped, they might have got somewhere. But as it stands - just who is fighting for it? As I understand American politics, if you want to change something, then you need an influential backer. And I don't see any influential backers lining up to help Poland in this respect.


It would be a piece of cake. Not only that, but would anyone really notice if "Marcin" and "Magda" turned up to work at the Polish bakery in Chicago or elsewhere? America has (as far as I can work out) quite weak internal controls over people, so a strong visa policy makes sense for them. It's exactly the same reason why the UK is so tough with visas compared to Schengen countries.

At the end of the day, if Poland doesn't like it, then she has to do something to change it - I just can't see what motivation there is for America to actually change things.

delphiandomine wrote:


one has to wonder how much Poland actually likes or dislikes it. I'm not talking about its people, I'm talking about its government officials. Visa free travel means a lot of educated poles, paid for by the state, jumping ship for a better life in the USA. In addition and as a result, lowering Poland's already abismal birth rate.

if the economic payoff isn't there, why should they do it? again, money trumps shame or in this case specifically, pride.

It's because US is the easiest country to live in, legal or not. Even with our sagging economy, we are still attractive to people from all around the world. Our construction industry creates many jobs and opportunities for undocumented workers to make lots more than they make in their own countries.

Just because you can't google it out, it doesn't mean that it's not supported by current numbers.


I know the "technical part" of it PP. My question was more about taking the risk of being caught here and deported while in Canada or UK, they wouldn't have to worry about anything at all.

The truth is, if they are not doing anything illegal and are contributing to society, very few of them get caught.

I would almost agree with you but as long as they're working illegally, they don't pay any taxes, right?
I have to admit, I don't know much about this part so it is really a question. Maybe you can answer it. Thx.

If they have fake documents, they pay social security and other taxes. Some do, some don't.

Oh my, that sounds like even a much bigger felony.

Indeed, that's definitely what was done in Texas. SS card so that they could be legally employed/get a license/open a bank account/pay SS and wage taxes/get insurance/purchase items which require registration. The drivers license also allows you to walk over the border.

...they don't get tax refunds or social security, which would mean that those immigrants that do work under a fake SS# are net contributors in the US fiscally.

I never heard of it but I guess you know what you're talking about. Can you provide a link, please?

Just check google about immigrants using fake ss cards. Dateline, or one of the other news shows did a piece a while back about illegals and papers.

I thought they would get social security and tax returns under their assumed identity which might be someone's actual social security number. They would live under that assumes name in the US for the rest of their lives. Unless the documents aren't even remotely real, which would be easy to bust if everything's computerized. It would be easy to see who is fake and who isn't.

I hoped, you'd be so kind and provide that link that you based your comment on it.

The IRS tends to frown on multiple people filing using the same SS#, interestingly enough, they don't seem to mind having the same SS# pay in for a while..which plays into the second part:


That's the easier route. Most businesses don't crosscheck, and quite a few states don't either.

Sometimes the person building the fake identity for the illegal will find obituaries of young people or infants, as morbid as it sounds, keeping up with ones who have died and using them later for illegals who will pay money to have new identities. Some shady credit repair organizations have done the same thing. This way they are part of the system, can get tax returns and social security later. If someone did some researching, they would be easy to bust, though.

convex wrote:


I know a Polish guy in Wroclaw who lived and worked illegally in the USA for years.

he came illegally as a teenager, managed to get a student visa while he was there and overstayed it for probably 7 years. he got his SS card at some point, worked like any other american, and when his visa was up, he just continued to work using the same SS #.

the INS and IRS are two seperate entities.

hey, any chance this guy could have been lying to you? Well, if not, our system really needs improvement.

Yeah, how did he get a social security number with just a student visa? Don't you have to be a citizen first? Maybe you can get one with a work visa? I don't know...

As far as our system needing improvement, the US has never been that strict about immigration. In fact, this is as strict as we've been...the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. It's not in the USA's nature to punish severely people who just want to come here. That's never been part of our national character. Should we make it a part of our heritage or foster the dreams of people looking for a better life?