And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK

No one is denying that some Polish football fans are racist despite you saying that I was denying that fact Several pages ago.

Some Irish are racist some British are racist this may be news to you but the vast majority are not. Paulina and myself have attempted to point this out while you and Harry said that I was only saying bad things about Britain and that she was a typical Polish person denying racism.

The BBC broadcast was biased as evidenced by some of the contributors distancing themselves from it, It's also clear that Sol Campbell's comments were about both countries as a whole and not just the ultras. I can only come to one conclusion as to why You cannot see that.

That's the guy I mentioned in one of my previous posts. Thanks for the link.

Thanks, Barney, that's what I was writing about all the time.

Go to the football much do you Paulina?

No, Harry, I've never been to any football match in any country. But an Euro match isn't the same as a Polish league match, I can imagine (and as I was told by a guy from Warsaw who goes to matches often and who attended matches at Euro2012). Some hooligans can be present at the satdium only if the Polish national team plays. In other cases - it's rather unlikely and attending such a match is probably pretty much as safe for a person of different race as visiting Poland in general.

Harry, when I aksed you whether you think UEFA made a mistake by allowing Poland to host the Euro 2012 you wrote "no".
Why do you think it wasn't a mistake?

Also, what do you think about that statement by Jonathan Ornstein, the director of Jewish Community Centre of Kraków?

Because Polish football needs dragging out of the dark ages. It needs to become a game which people can take their kids to, which single women can attend, which people of all colours can attend. At the moment it really isn't that. Euro 2012 has helped (the new stadia at least) but it could have helped a lot more. One of the main problems was that the Polish authorities (just as a lot of Poles) didn't face up to the problems which they have in the game. So now we have the sight of excellent stadia being partly closed because the 'fans' can't act like adults. Euro 2012 was a superb opportunity to build from, but one that's been partially lost already.


Which bit of it? The bit about how only his words in the about the topic of the program were used? Or the bit where his suggestion about the non-British white footballers who play in Poland was assessed as 'not fitting' the program?

I can see that you are not telling the truth. The programme was about racism in football in Poland and Ukraine, and not about racism in the two counties generally. Either you haven't watched it, didn't understand it or are simply making stuff up.


So, in that case, you are commenting on a programme you haven't seen about a problem you have had no personal experience of.


That's pretty flimsy evidence.

I agree with that.
But, as a side note, I don't go to football matches because I'm afraid to go, I don't attend them because I'm not interested.

The level of Polish league is low (just like Polish football in general) and I suspect matches are boring. Maybe that's one of the reasons why Polish stadiums have been often taken over by hooligans - noone else cares. I can't really imagine whole families going to matches of the Polish league even if it was super safe.


What do you mean?


As far as I know those "excellent stadia" are having problems because they don't pay for themselves. Even before the Euro people were saying that it's going to be like that and that other countries had similar problems, and, tbh, that was the reason I was pretty much against organising Euro in Poland. I thought it was going to be just a waste of money.


His whole statement.


If that was the case why such reaction from Jonathan Ornstein?


Jonathan Ornstein has seen it and even took part in it. What do you think about his statement?


lol
Ifor, I don't even need that "flimsy evidence" to make a logical conclusion.

As far as I can make out, you don't need any evidence at all. You don't even bother to look.

Why not? You get whole families going to lower league matches.


I mean it was the typical 'deny there's any problem and then claim any people reporting the problem are inventing the problem for nefarious aims' (such as supposedly increasing the chances of the UK getting to host the Euros, as a certain poster here claimed).


I was actually referring to the Warsaw Legia stadium. As for the stadia not paying for themselves, they won't while lots of people simply will not go to games because of the scum which make up a small minority of the crowd.


Most of what he said was bleeding obvious.

Ifor, anyone reasonable can make a conclusion that a Polish league match isn't the same as an Euro match (with Polish national team not playing).

And I have no reason to not believe that guy either.


Eh... I don't know... Because it's boring? lol :P
I can imagine myself going to a match out of curiosity or to see the new stadium in my city, but that's about it... Why would anyone go to football matches on regular basis is beyond me ;) But I'm not a football fan so... It happens (very rarely) that I watch some "important" match on TV though (if it's the Polish national team playing or some important match in some important tournament), but I can't imagine many people going to Polish league matches on regular basis. If someone is a fan of football, then yes, but other people?


Harry, who was denying the problem, etc.? I haven't heard anyone doing that, so what are you talking about? (and Barney isn't the Polish authorities)


What the Warsaw Legia stadium has to do with the Euro2012?


I don't think that's the problem, I've read and heard about such cases in other countries where stadia built for football tournaments weren't paying for themselves because they were too big and not really needed or sth. I remember all that talk about this after we got the Euro 2012, so it's not like people didn't expect this to happen.

At Polonia games you'll be lucky if the football is good enough to be boring.


Just look at the reaction to the BBC documentary.


As I said "So now we have the sight of excellent stadia being partly closed because the 'fans' can't act like adults." but I suppose one would need to follow Polish football to know about Legia fans getting their stadium partially closed.


Smaller countries which hosted the tournament alone. Poland is more than big enough to support three new regional stadia (as at the cities the stadia are in) and the national stadium really was needed (and is doing a good job of paying for itself too).

lol What on Earth are Polonia games?


What reaction? Who was denying that there's a problem with football hooligans in Poland? The Polish government that declared war on them? Are you kidding me? Give me names and links.


Not really, you can hear sometimes on the news about such stuff.


Well, not really alone, I think it was about Austria and Switzerland.


That's what I'm writing about:

The owner of the Czech stadium Eden Arena admitted that organizing the European Super Cup , where Bayern Munich will face Chelsea on August 30 in London , Prague object is unprofitable.

- There is no doubt that the stadium is not a profitable event . It is only the prestige that this game brings - said at a press conference representative firm marketing arena Jacob Dlouhy .

Previous 15 Matches Super Cup , which fights the winner of the Champions League and the winner of the Europa League (formerly UEFA Cup ) , was held in Monaco. This year, for the first time the winner will be chosen elsewhere.


Is it? Then something must have changed since the last time I've heard about it because as I recall Mucha almost lost her job because of that stadium.

Do you think that maybe if you don't even know the names of the two major teams in Warsaw, you don't know enough about Polish football to be commenting on it?

Geez, sorry, I didn't know you mean Polonia Warszawa LOL I thought you're picking on some Polonian match or whatever (since you and delph are such anti-Polonians).

At the risk of repeating myself, the film makers filmed hooligans doing hooligan stuff at a football match or two. They showed the footage to Sol Campbell who said don't go to either country. He didn't say go, enjoy the countries but avoid the stadia he said don't go full stop.

It was broadcast just before the Euros began and claimed to tell the truth of what people visiting Poland and Ukraine could expect.
That was not true as we now know, his opinion was given prominence by the BBC which added weight to his words. Now when he claims that Britain is racist his opinion has suddenly become meaningless.....Other contributors to this broadcast distanced themselves from it claiming that it wasn't an accurate representation of Poland and that it was clear that the film makers were working to a not too flattering agenda, the BBC denied this.

So we are left with a situation where the program contained material from someone the BBC effectively said was unreliable yet you still think that it painted a realistic picture, I find that particularly odd.

No, he was talking about Euro 2012, not the countries generally. Most likely you have not watched the documentary.


How do we know it was not true? Very few ethnic minorities travelled.


Strawman argument. Who, other than yourself, is claiming it is 'meaningless'?


Who, Sol Campbell? But isn't it the BBC itself who have broadcast Campbell's opinion that 'Britain is racist'?

Anyone reasonable would watch a programme before coming to sweeping conclusions about the content of the programme.

Is there any chance of you picking one username and sticking to it?
Rant away, there Is nothing more any reasonable person can add that will progress this pointless exchange

i don`t wonder. i am not naive. i know.

The site won't let me post under I.B..

I'm not ranting, by the way. I am simply stating that you have made a series of statements you can find no evidence for. What makes this exchange 'pointless' is your consistently making untrue statements, and not my pointing out that the statements you are making are untrue.

I lost a significant amount of respect for BBC after that circus before the Euro Tournament. Didn't Sol warn about returning from Poland/Ukraine in a coffin?

Garbage. He had never even stepped foot in the country.

Odd to see yourself and 'anti- fascist' Barney sharing the same viewpoint here.

Consider this a warning. Stop baiting other posters please.

as far as i can tell and im not following this debate but whether any body watched the entire video or not is largely irrelivant, The Sol Campbell footage was blasted throughout the internet and highlighted on the mainstream media with significant timing, so the damage was done. Media has a habit of nit picking the most profound sections of news for ratings, in other words "why let the truth get in the way of a good story".

Your statement is contradictory, but never mind. Sol Campbell's statement only makes sense in the context of the documentary.

please explain cos i dont see that.


perhaps, problem is though only about 2% would have actually seen that, so as i said the damage was done.

On the one hand, you are stating that the video is irrelevant, on the other hand you are accusing the media of 'nit-picking' and 'not letting the truth get in the way of a good story'. You can only see that the media is doing the latter by watching the programme itself.


The criticism of Sol Campbell was unfair. He was quoted out of context.

What I wrote was reasonable. It is 'strange' to see someone who describes themselves as 'anti-fascist' sharing the same opinion as a racist poster.

Thats not what i said


That doesnt make sense

Was.



Obviously, we only know whether anyone is being quoted out of context by looking at the context. I'm sorry if you find this concept difficult to grasp.

If you had wrote the word 'yourself' instead of 'itself', it would have been easier to comprehend and then in turn spot your BS, which basically reiterated what i originally posted anyway.

Arent you supposed to be an English teacher??????

Nothing wrong with writing 'the programme itself'. A programme, in English, is genderless. What do you call yourself?

You're misrepresenting my point to make it easier to attack in a biased manner.

Spot the difference. I hope your English teaching techniques are better than your forum posting skills, its the old story of you knowing what youre talking about but not many others do.

Shall we take bets on what his next reply will be? I know what its going to be - 7/10 odds i reckon