I guess things are the same everywhere. I wouldn't be happy if I was Polish and I knew someone that was english for 20 years and could not speak to them, I'd demand they go home. its all about Balance, I am making the first steps myself in learning the polish language, as I feel nowadays it may be a help for me to do so, I'm aware this is my choice. I just hope you see from me attempting this (one of the hardest languages in my opinion! but a cool sounding one!) I'm not against you guys in anyway!!! please remember that.
Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please?
"it will change the fabric of british society and my identity if Immigration does not stop, now, it already has been let to get too far out of hand. I knew I'd be attacked for my views but I want to know why.
No, well... then Polish people are just being plain rude if they continue to talk in the workplace in polish, as this is england, I'm afraid.
I will leave this forum now, as I know that I'm not going to get any sensible, or at least, any answers that are not negative towards my country, or my view, which may seem xenophobic but I just can't help but see the major problems arising from the mass exodus from poland to england.
again, I can only assume that the man who is learning to drive with money earnt here, but flying back to poland for lessons, has short term plans here, unless it is just a way to get a cheap EU license, which is more likely.
its a shame we were so liberal"
- seriously? Polish people go to Poland to pass driving license? I was thinking that it's one of the hardest countries to pass this exam. Look at passing rates.
- too many immigrants? I am afraid that it's consequence of low birth rate. Without immigrants social system would collapse. It's same about Poland in 20 years.
- immigrants are not spending their money in GB? That's the result of them being immigrants. Anyway it changes about Polish people. As soon as they don't have family in Poland they're not stimulating Polish economy any more. So don't worry it will finish. (statistics supports that)
- immigrants from eastern Europe are not stimulating British economy and are the reason of lost decade? Ask somebody who knows better about economy. It's exactly opposite.
- est European immigrants are not escaping from prosecution, war. They're economic immigrants, so don't expect them to love your country and remember that your government could decide differently, not let them in and as results cut pensions, because every year would be less workers per pensioner.
One thing is that these immigrants are very bad for British workers. Such big number increased competition greatly and kept salaries stagnating. So I would say that everybody expect of low earning British citizens gained economically because big eastern European immigration. (by lower service prices and payed taxes)
No, well... then Polish people are just being plain rude if they continue to talk in the workplace in polish, as this is england, I'm afraid.
I will leave this forum now, as I know that I'm not going to get any sensible, or at least, any answers that are not negative towards my country, or my view, which may seem xenophobic but I just can't help but see the major problems arising from the mass exodus from poland to england.
again, I can only assume that the man who is learning to drive with money earnt here, but flying back to poland for lessons, has short term plans here, unless it is just a way to get a cheap EU license, which is more likely.
its a shame we were so liberal"
- seriously? Polish people go to Poland to pass driving license? I was thinking that it's one of the hardest countries to pass this exam. Look at passing rates.
- too many immigrants? I am afraid that it's consequence of low birth rate. Without immigrants social system would collapse. It's same about Poland in 20 years.
- immigrants are not spending their money in GB? That's the result of them being immigrants. Anyway it changes about Polish people. As soon as they don't have family in Poland they're not stimulating Polish economy any more. So don't worry it will finish. (statistics supports that)
- immigrants from eastern Europe are not stimulating British economy and are the reason of lost decade? Ask somebody who knows better about economy. It's exactly opposite.
- est European immigrants are not escaping from prosecution, war. They're economic immigrants, so don't expect them to love your country and remember that your government could decide differently, not let them in and as results cut pensions, because every year would be less workers per pensioner.
One thing is that these immigrants are very bad for British workers. Such big number increased competition greatly and kept salaries stagnating. So I would say that everybody expect of low earning British citizens gained economically because big eastern European immigration. (by lower service prices and payed taxes)
- seriously? Polish people go to Poland to pass driving license? I was thinking that it's one of the hardest countries to pass this exam. Look at passing rates.
indeed. well I know this one fella at work who has gone back to poland twice for his driving lessons, and has failed twice, so that seems likely, I guess he's wasted his money really
-One thing is that these immigrants are very bad for British workers. Such big number increased competition greatly and kept salaries stagnating. So I would say that everybody expect of low earning British citizens gained economically because big eastern European immigration. (by lower service prices and payed taxes)
I think the general opinion is that most british citizens are lazy. that may be true of our London overspill towns, where many poor households have developed over the last 30 years, but it is not true of each and every one of us. I am a frustrated british citizen who is finding it very difficult to stay above my money and debts, I seriously want to change my job, but it is quite literally near-on impossible to find full time work now, and this was not the case 7-8 years ago.
indeed. well I know this one fella at work who has gone back to poland twice for his driving lessons, and has failed twice, so that seems likely, I guess he's wasted his money really
-One thing is that these immigrants are very bad for British workers. Such big number increased competition greatly and kept salaries stagnating. So I would say that everybody expect of low earning British citizens gained economically because big eastern European immigration. (by lower service prices and payed taxes)
I think the general opinion is that most british citizens are lazy. that may be true of our London overspill towns, where many poor households have developed over the last 30 years, but it is not true of each and every one of us. I am a frustrated british citizen who is finding it very difficult to stay above my money and debts, I seriously want to change my job, but it is quite literally near-on impossible to find full time work now, and this was not the case 7-8 years ago.
Dreadnought 1 | 143
4 Mar 2013 / #124
I am aware that this like stepping into a tank of sharks: But my opinion is this: I would rather have Poles in UK than Africans and all the different colours of Muslim etc that are in UK. This is not based on colour...I know full well that Poles are three steps away from me on culture/religion/family and a few other minor things...but all the blacks and muslims are light years from my culture, lets get rid of the useless ones of them that are leeching off UK society.....Poles are not a danger to UK..... nothing like the danger from the others. If only every Pole that came to UK, displaced and sent back an African, I would be a happy man.
statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/adhoc_analysis/2012/nat_nino_regs.pdf
See above for number of Polish benefit claimants.
"There are, in fact, fewer than 7,000 Poles claiming the Job Seekers' Allowance. Indeed, there are fewer than 13,000 JSA claimants from the "Accession Eight" countries (Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Slovenia). Whatever else these eastern europeans have been doing in Britain, they've not been mooching off the benefits system. And it is a lie - dirty and simple - to suggest they are. "
I think the problem is and this has been the issues before with previous waves of immigrants, Asians, West Indians, ghettoisation.
Although the Polish effect can be felt in London, due to London being a melting pot for all and sundry it merely adds flavour to the capital and youth, both absolutely necessary for London, which is it's own world, quite separate from the rest of the UK.
However, in the rest of the UK certain towns and areas have had mass influxes of Poles and other Eastern European nations for example, Luton, Boston, Doncaster, Swindon etc the established communities often sustained by SMEs and agriculture have felt the impact of the new arrivals.
Amongst the new arrivals businesses have been built by Poles and for Poles, which often exclude the established British people, food shops, hairdressers, mechanics, builders etc, BUT they tender for business within both communities, thus taking away business from Brits AND making money exclusively from their own.
Regarding property, many town centre's have older properties which are split into bedsits and small flats, often inhabited by people on benefits and low incomes.
Since many of the new arrivals share rooms etc and WORK and pay their rents, this has displaced again the original british communities and created ghettos within cities and towns. Many shop assistants and low paid positions ARE taken by Poles IN town. This makes people feel the whole place has Turned Polish.
This pattern is exactly what happened when large numbers of commonwealth citizens began immigrating from the 50's onwards.
When the Jamaican's began arriving from the 50's inhabiting areas in London there was tension and resentment by Brits in those areas, again when Indians and Pakistanis began arriving and establishing communities again more resentment.
The resentment and fear of the Alien, the Unknown is comprehensible and actually a rational response.
In the USA a country built on mass immigration the speed at which the Hispanic community is growing unsettles many Americans, Black, White, Yellow, Pink and Blue.
Change is unsettling.
See above for number of Polish benefit claimants.
"There are, in fact, fewer than 7,000 Poles claiming the Job Seekers' Allowance. Indeed, there are fewer than 13,000 JSA claimants from the "Accession Eight" countries (Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Slovenia). Whatever else these eastern europeans have been doing in Britain, they've not been mooching off the benefits system. And it is a lie - dirty and simple - to suggest they are. "
I think the problem is and this has been the issues before with previous waves of immigrants, Asians, West Indians, ghettoisation.
Although the Polish effect can be felt in London, due to London being a melting pot for all and sundry it merely adds flavour to the capital and youth, both absolutely necessary for London, which is it's own world, quite separate from the rest of the UK.
However, in the rest of the UK certain towns and areas have had mass influxes of Poles and other Eastern European nations for example, Luton, Boston, Doncaster, Swindon etc the established communities often sustained by SMEs and agriculture have felt the impact of the new arrivals.
Amongst the new arrivals businesses have been built by Poles and for Poles, which often exclude the established British people, food shops, hairdressers, mechanics, builders etc, BUT they tender for business within both communities, thus taking away business from Brits AND making money exclusively from their own.
Regarding property, many town centre's have older properties which are split into bedsits and small flats, often inhabited by people on benefits and low incomes.
Since many of the new arrivals share rooms etc and WORK and pay their rents, this has displaced again the original british communities and created ghettos within cities and towns. Many shop assistants and low paid positions ARE taken by Poles IN town. This makes people feel the whole place has Turned Polish.
This pattern is exactly what happened when large numbers of commonwealth citizens began immigrating from the 50's onwards.
When the Jamaican's began arriving from the 50's inhabiting areas in London there was tension and resentment by Brits in those areas, again when Indians and Pakistanis began arriving and establishing communities again more resentment.
The resentment and fear of the Alien, the Unknown is comprehensible and actually a rational response.
In the USA a country built on mass immigration the speed at which the Hispanic community is growing unsettles many Americans, Black, White, Yellow, Pink and Blue.
Change is unsettling.
Its quite simply not fair for someone like me who wants to work and wants to work hard that I cannot find another job in the same areas because of migrants.
guess life's not fair eh? I'll probably end up moving abroad myself
guess life's not fair eh? I'll probably end up moving abroad myself
I'm not against you guys in anyway!!!
Jon and many other posters on PF are not Polish.In fact Jon is British like you(?).
.Poles are not a danger to UK.
Their grand children will be British.
I am a frustrated british citizen who is finding it very difficult to stay above my money and debts,
You are certainly entitled to be frustrated but if it makes you feel better things are tough all over and there's plenty of frustrated British,Polish,US and other citizens.
guess life's not fair eh?
It's not.
Its quite simply not fair for someone like me who wants to work and wants to work hard that I cannot find another job in the same areas because of migrants.guess life's not fair eh? I'll probably end up moving abroad myself
I don't know your situation, but I do know how you feel.
I've been able to hold onto a job, but there are times when I look around the office, supermarket queue, those waiting for a bus etc and feel outnumbered by foreigners.
You're right, life is not fair ;)
Patriotic_Pete - | 3
25 Mar 2013 / #129
Well this thread has certainly been an interesting read. Aside from the very obvious racist slur from the uneducated BNP'esque brigade, It would seem that there is definitely an anti-Polish sentiment across a large proportion of British society but as per usual the Brits are too damn lazy and complacent to actually do anything meaningful with their frustrations. Oh, and I AM British by the way.
Here's my two penny worth;
- First off, In my opinion there does seem to be a very large number of Polish who come to the UK and 'milk the system', however I don't feel this is necessarily the fault of Polish people. It was OUR government that made decisions resulting in legislation to let them in. And who elected OUR Government? Yes, YOU!!! Britons. Or at least those of you who could be bothered to vote!! If you read the link posted by a previous poster with the DWP report it seems that Somalians are even greater offenders along with Pakistanis but that isn't being discussed here.
- I consider myself quite Patriotic and it makes my blood boil that our country is getting 'milked' left right and centre not just by Poles but by every nationality immaginable. I blame this largely on the incredibly lax immigration policies of the last labour government and the fact that Britain is seen the world over as a "soft touch" - which it is. Just look at the evidence, we have immigrants coming from all over (both legally and otherwise!), Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Senegal, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Pakistan, India, etc, etc. The question you have to ask is WHY are they coming? Obviously life here is PERCEIVED as being better than in their homelands, and I don't doubt it is, especially given one previous poster's comments about the polish attitudes likening British Prisons to Spa's!!! Take Romania and Bulgaria for example, when they joined the EU almost every other country placed restrictions on them coming to work in France, Spain, Germany, etc but not Britain - Why are we so afraid of being labelled as racist - NONE of the other EU countries faced any criticism for their controls!!! How is it OUR government were too stupid to realise that if poorer nations like BG & RO joined the EU they would come flooding in in droves?
- I am not just aiming these comments at Polish people, but ALL foreigners (and no I am not racist) I just believe quite simply that the welfare system should be for British people as it is provided BY British people. There should be a simple entitlement test for any EU national that is supposedly entitled to benefits here that goes like this - Have you paid full NI for ten years solid? No, then you get nothing!!! Its that simple.
- Don't get me wrong, I am equally incensed by the numbers of BRITISH people 'on the dole' who just refuse to work. Again where to apportion blame is an entirely different conversation but I can't help but feel that our own government have created a culture of entitlement by the pure nature of the benefits system. For example, when I lived in Spain, if you were unemployed (and Spanish) you were entitled to at least 800€ per month (sometimes more - depending on what you'd paid into the system) BUT only for a maximum period of time like 12 or 24 months. Lets face it ANYONE can find a job in that period IF they REALLY want to!! I think it should be the same here.
- Yes there is an argument that says there would be more jobs for British workers if there weren't so many foreigners working (or as some people say "taking all our jobs") and I agree this is also true. I believe we should be more like the Australians or Americans where a company has to prove they have exhausted every possible option in the local labour market BEFORE they can employ a foreigner. It works fine for them and they are not labelled racists. However, I also appreciate that every argument has two sides and it is also probably true that some migrant workers are willing to do menial jobs that British people don't want to do (but how would their attitude to accepting these jobs change if the alternative was NO BENEFITS?). Likewise I am sure there is probably some truth that some foreign workers will work considerably harder than us Brits! Sad but true.
- What I do object to is the way our government allows our economy to operate like a sieve and yet seems blind to the consequences. For example I know both Polish and Pakistani people (and I am sure many other nationalities too) who work here and send money 'home' to their families. Money that would be spent in the British economy IF their jobs were filled with British workers!!! Who is to blame people - sorry but it is OUR 'BRITISH' government!!!
- And as for the height of stupidity, why on earth does our welfare system pay out benefits to EU nationals for children who are NOT EVEN RESIDENT in the UK??? Seriously what's that all about??? Come on UK wake up - this is ridiculous!!! Someone please explain the justification of this. And it seems this really is a Polish thing with 2/3 of the £36M of overseas child benefit going to Poland!!! To be fair its no more stupid than how we pay UK pensioners a "winter fuel allowance" with their pension EVEN WHEN THEY LIVE IN SPAIN!!!
- And the stupidity doesn't end there. No, if I have researched this correctly any EU citizen can claim benefit in another EU country (so it starts to sound fair - wish I knew this when I was in Spain) with each host nation claiming back the money paid from the home nation of the claimant. But it seems Britain doesn't bother claiming money back from the other nations - we just pay out to them! Now I have only sketched over this subject quickly so I admit I may be misinformed here but I am willing to stand corrected.
- Then there is the issue of crime and how a disproportionately high number of offenders are foreign nationals. Why do they do it. Maybe because they see our system of law and punishment and our police force as weak? Look at how the Police can't use their battons in defence without coming under fire these days. Ever watch those documentaries about police in places like the USA and Spain? Try mouthing off to one of those officers and see what you get. Why we put foreign criminals in our already overcrowded prisons is beyond me. Send them home with a permanent ban on entering Britain again, EVER!
I myself have lived abroad, in Morocco and Spain, and I have seen poverty and I have seen police states where ordinary citizens actually fear the police (not necessarily a bad thing - our crime problems here are a direct result of our 'soft touch' attitude and lack of willingness to punish, but that is another argument entirely. My point is this, When I was abroad, if I needed financial aid (when I lost my job), healthcare (if I was ill), was it available to me - NO!!! Or at least only at cost to myself (in the case of healthcare). These other countries (read pretty much ALL countries) wouldnt support us if we lived there, so why on earth should we support them here???
However, in closing, what I really want to say is this; I appreciate that I have perhaps strong feelings about the above points as do many Brits but instead of coming on here and venting your anger at the Polish (or whatever nationality it seems fashionable to hate at the time), why not do something constructive and write to your MP. Talk to YOUR government. Demonstrate. Do something!!! But do not sit on your backsides complaining if you are not willing to back up your frustrations with a little action. And if you don't vote then to be honest you have no right to say anything. Too many people in our country are nonchalant about voting and yet if they only knew how few votes it would take to make a difference they would be down the polling station pronto. Look at the uprising in Egypt & Libya for example, those were passionate people who had had enough. I am not saying take to the streets or advocating violence but they did something and got change. The little people brought down a president. But not just a president - A Dictator! A man who was prepared to kill them for speaking out. Do we in Britain have such a regime - No!! So why are Brits so afraid / too damn lazy to do anything meaningful?
Remember people YOU put the government in power, either through the process of democracy OR YOUR refusal to take part in it. USE YOUR VOTE!
Tell YOUR government what YOU want them to do. They work for you![i][/i]
Here's my two penny worth;
- First off, In my opinion there does seem to be a very large number of Polish who come to the UK and 'milk the system', however I don't feel this is necessarily the fault of Polish people. It was OUR government that made decisions resulting in legislation to let them in. And who elected OUR Government? Yes, YOU!!! Britons. Or at least those of you who could be bothered to vote!! If you read the link posted by a previous poster with the DWP report it seems that Somalians are even greater offenders along with Pakistanis but that isn't being discussed here.
- I consider myself quite Patriotic and it makes my blood boil that our country is getting 'milked' left right and centre not just by Poles but by every nationality immaginable. I blame this largely on the incredibly lax immigration policies of the last labour government and the fact that Britain is seen the world over as a "soft touch" - which it is. Just look at the evidence, we have immigrants coming from all over (both legally and otherwise!), Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Senegal, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Pakistan, India, etc, etc. The question you have to ask is WHY are they coming? Obviously life here is PERCEIVED as being better than in their homelands, and I don't doubt it is, especially given one previous poster's comments about the polish attitudes likening British Prisons to Spa's!!! Take Romania and Bulgaria for example, when they joined the EU almost every other country placed restrictions on them coming to work in France, Spain, Germany, etc but not Britain - Why are we so afraid of being labelled as racist - NONE of the other EU countries faced any criticism for their controls!!! How is it OUR government were too stupid to realise that if poorer nations like BG & RO joined the EU they would come flooding in in droves?
- I am not just aiming these comments at Polish people, but ALL foreigners (and no I am not racist) I just believe quite simply that the welfare system should be for British people as it is provided BY British people. There should be a simple entitlement test for any EU national that is supposedly entitled to benefits here that goes like this - Have you paid full NI for ten years solid? No, then you get nothing!!! Its that simple.
- Don't get me wrong, I am equally incensed by the numbers of BRITISH people 'on the dole' who just refuse to work. Again where to apportion blame is an entirely different conversation but I can't help but feel that our own government have created a culture of entitlement by the pure nature of the benefits system. For example, when I lived in Spain, if you were unemployed (and Spanish) you were entitled to at least 800€ per month (sometimes more - depending on what you'd paid into the system) BUT only for a maximum period of time like 12 or 24 months. Lets face it ANYONE can find a job in that period IF they REALLY want to!! I think it should be the same here.
- Yes there is an argument that says there would be more jobs for British workers if there weren't so many foreigners working (or as some people say "taking all our jobs") and I agree this is also true. I believe we should be more like the Australians or Americans where a company has to prove they have exhausted every possible option in the local labour market BEFORE they can employ a foreigner. It works fine for them and they are not labelled racists. However, I also appreciate that every argument has two sides and it is also probably true that some migrant workers are willing to do menial jobs that British people don't want to do (but how would their attitude to accepting these jobs change if the alternative was NO BENEFITS?). Likewise I am sure there is probably some truth that some foreign workers will work considerably harder than us Brits! Sad but true.
- What I do object to is the way our government allows our economy to operate like a sieve and yet seems blind to the consequences. For example I know both Polish and Pakistani people (and I am sure many other nationalities too) who work here and send money 'home' to their families. Money that would be spent in the British economy IF their jobs were filled with British workers!!! Who is to blame people - sorry but it is OUR 'BRITISH' government!!!
- And as for the height of stupidity, why on earth does our welfare system pay out benefits to EU nationals for children who are NOT EVEN RESIDENT in the UK??? Seriously what's that all about??? Come on UK wake up - this is ridiculous!!! Someone please explain the justification of this. And it seems this really is a Polish thing with 2/3 of the £36M of overseas child benefit going to Poland!!! To be fair its no more stupid than how we pay UK pensioners a "winter fuel allowance" with their pension EVEN WHEN THEY LIVE IN SPAIN!!!
- And the stupidity doesn't end there. No, if I have researched this correctly any EU citizen can claim benefit in another EU country (so it starts to sound fair - wish I knew this when I was in Spain) with each host nation claiming back the money paid from the home nation of the claimant. But it seems Britain doesn't bother claiming money back from the other nations - we just pay out to them! Now I have only sketched over this subject quickly so I admit I may be misinformed here but I am willing to stand corrected.
- Then there is the issue of crime and how a disproportionately high number of offenders are foreign nationals. Why do they do it. Maybe because they see our system of law and punishment and our police force as weak? Look at how the Police can't use their battons in defence without coming under fire these days. Ever watch those documentaries about police in places like the USA and Spain? Try mouthing off to one of those officers and see what you get. Why we put foreign criminals in our already overcrowded prisons is beyond me. Send them home with a permanent ban on entering Britain again, EVER!
I myself have lived abroad, in Morocco and Spain, and I have seen poverty and I have seen police states where ordinary citizens actually fear the police (not necessarily a bad thing - our crime problems here are a direct result of our 'soft touch' attitude and lack of willingness to punish, but that is another argument entirely. My point is this, When I was abroad, if I needed financial aid (when I lost my job), healthcare (if I was ill), was it available to me - NO!!! Or at least only at cost to myself (in the case of healthcare). These other countries (read pretty much ALL countries) wouldnt support us if we lived there, so why on earth should we support them here???
However, in closing, what I really want to say is this; I appreciate that I have perhaps strong feelings about the above points as do many Brits but instead of coming on here and venting your anger at the Polish (or whatever nationality it seems fashionable to hate at the time), why not do something constructive and write to your MP. Talk to YOUR government. Demonstrate. Do something!!! But do not sit on your backsides complaining if you are not willing to back up your frustrations with a little action. And if you don't vote then to be honest you have no right to say anything. Too many people in our country are nonchalant about voting and yet if they only knew how few votes it would take to make a difference they would be down the polling station pronto. Look at the uprising in Egypt & Libya for example, those were passionate people who had had enough. I am not saying take to the streets or advocating violence but they did something and got change. The little people brought down a president. But not just a president - A Dictator! A man who was prepared to kill them for speaking out. Do we in Britain have such a regime - No!! So why are Brits so afraid / too damn lazy to do anything meaningful?
Remember people YOU put the government in power, either through the process of democracy OR YOUR refusal to take part in it. USE YOUR VOTE!
Tell YOUR government what YOU want them to do. They work for you![i][/i]
It would seem that there is definitely an anti-Polish sentiment across a large proportion of British society but as per usual the Brits are too damn lazy and complacent to actually do anything meaningful with their frustrations. Oh, and I AM British by the way.
Come on, we're one people, doesn't matter If you're black, white or pink !
Patriotic_Pete - | 3
25 Mar 2013 / #131
Absolutely, as I hope I made clear in my post, I AM NOT RACIST!
It does sicken me that ANY foreigners are able to come over here and just go on benefits but as I made clear the fault lies with OUR government. No-one could blame anyone for wanting a better life. When I lived in Morocco I witnessed DAILY tens of young boys, some as young as 8 maybe, climbing under lorries and hanging on for dear life in the vein hope they would make it through the port onto the boat and across to Spain / Europe. Its perfectly natural to want a better life, especially if you own is pretty sh!t.
My anger is with the system, I bear no grudge to the poles or any other race for that matter. Although I do think that the Pakistani community do take particular liberties coming over here and then bringing half their village with them claiming they are 'family'. Now those guys really know how to 'milk the system' here in the UK! Worse still our government in their 'wisdom' seem to think its our responsibility to waste millions of public money printing all sorts of official documents in their language!
There is much wrong with my country and IF I had my way there is much I would change. Like for example the issue of asylum seekers, by definition they should seek refuge in the first safe country they come to - International law demands this! But no they manage to get all the way from Afghanistan or Iraq or Albania to the UK. Surely they didnt just hop on a plane. 99% of the time they must have come over by Lorry / boat so they must have come through Europe. As a matter of interest is Poland flooded with these Economic Migrants, sorry I mean 'Asylum Seekers'?
It does sicken me that ANY foreigners are able to come over here and just go on benefits but as I made clear the fault lies with OUR government. No-one could blame anyone for wanting a better life. When I lived in Morocco I witnessed DAILY tens of young boys, some as young as 8 maybe, climbing under lorries and hanging on for dear life in the vein hope they would make it through the port onto the boat and across to Spain / Europe. Its perfectly natural to want a better life, especially if you own is pretty sh!t.
My anger is with the system, I bear no grudge to the poles or any other race for that matter. Although I do think that the Pakistani community do take particular liberties coming over here and then bringing half their village with them claiming they are 'family'. Now those guys really know how to 'milk the system' here in the UK! Worse still our government in their 'wisdom' seem to think its our responsibility to waste millions of public money printing all sorts of official documents in their language!
There is much wrong with my country and IF I had my way there is much I would change. Like for example the issue of asylum seekers, by definition they should seek refuge in the first safe country they come to - International law demands this! But no they manage to get all the way from Afghanistan or Iraq or Albania to the UK. Surely they didnt just hop on a plane. 99% of the time they must have come over by Lorry / boat so they must have come through Europe. As a matter of interest is Poland flooded with these Economic Migrants, sorry I mean 'Asylum Seekers'?
It does sicken me that ANY foreigners are able to come over here and just go on benefits
Be sick no longer - since it isn't true; they can't. That only happens in the imaginations of tabloid readers and pub bores.
When countries suffer from financial doldrums, the RACE card is always played. It is easier to blame 'immigrants' for our woes, it is a much simpler solution to say immigrants are taking our jobs. The majority of Polish immigrants coming to the UK are in work, the facts are out there, I have posted them already, see above.
The "immigrants' that are 'on benefits' are the settled ethnic communities who have British passports and are British citizens.
What the under lying discussion is NOT about, is being British and immigration and jobs, it is to do with the indigenous W.A.S.P population feeling financially squeezed.
W.A.S.P = White Anglo-Saxon Protestants
The link I have attached is relevant since it documents an example of Organised benefit fraud which has been orchestrated by Polish criminals. Ignore the sensationalist title regarding 'new ploy', this is an old ploy that many other ethnic OC's have used. However, it is being used to highlight a very real fear of Polish, Bulgarian and Romania OC's potential to execute this type of fraud.
telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8865243/Police-arrest-31-benefit-fraud-people-traffickers.html
Now the majority of Poles in the UK are hard working, pay tax and contribute to the economy, however, Polish criminals will hide amongst the law abiding just as other criminals they do in other ethnic communities. When immigrants offend and are caught the media will generally highlight their cases, it makes NEWS.
The Policies the government are trying to put in place at the moment are to create a tool to help in the fight against Benefit Fraud.
The weakness in the system IS NOT that there are too many immigrants claiming, rather that the Benefits system is abused on a HUGE scale, from individual fraudsters to mafia style organisations. Please note, the majority of benefit fraud is actually executed by British citizens, just for the record. However, the OC from the East is a real threat.
opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/deborah-padfield/real-cost-of-benefit-fraud-in-britain
The other major challenges for the social welfare system are the long term ill and the growing elderly population. People are living longer, we have a rapidly ageing population.
Why is the UK's population ageing? Babies in the UK are living longer and therefore life expectancy is increasing. The UK population is still growing but only slowly. However, by 2021 19% of the UK population will be pensioners. This is due to the baby boom after World War Two. Population pyramids are used to explain this process.
Unfortunately of that percentage a huge number need support through our social welfare system and NHS.
These are examples of some of what the government agencies have to try and manage, so populist Politicians who simplify our woes into "them and us' are spouting self promoting ********, they are currying favours amongst the masses, it is rabble rousing.
It is classic divide and rule.
GOVERNANCE IS AN ART NOT A SCIENCE.
The "immigrants' that are 'on benefits' are the settled ethnic communities who have British passports and are British citizens.
What the under lying discussion is NOT about, is being British and immigration and jobs, it is to do with the indigenous W.A.S.P population feeling financially squeezed.
W.A.S.P = White Anglo-Saxon Protestants
The link I have attached is relevant since it documents an example of Organised benefit fraud which has been orchestrated by Polish criminals. Ignore the sensationalist title regarding 'new ploy', this is an old ploy that many other ethnic OC's have used. However, it is being used to highlight a very real fear of Polish, Bulgarian and Romania OC's potential to execute this type of fraud.
telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8865243/Police-arrest-31-benefit-fraud-people-traffickers.html
Now the majority of Poles in the UK are hard working, pay tax and contribute to the economy, however, Polish criminals will hide amongst the law abiding just as other criminals they do in other ethnic communities. When immigrants offend and are caught the media will generally highlight their cases, it makes NEWS.
The Policies the government are trying to put in place at the moment are to create a tool to help in the fight against Benefit Fraud.
The weakness in the system IS NOT that there are too many immigrants claiming, rather that the Benefits system is abused on a HUGE scale, from individual fraudsters to mafia style organisations. Please note, the majority of benefit fraud is actually executed by British citizens, just for the record. However, the OC from the East is a real threat.
opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/deborah-padfield/real-cost-of-benefit-fraud-in-britain
The other major challenges for the social welfare system are the long term ill and the growing elderly population. People are living longer, we have a rapidly ageing population.
Why is the UK's population ageing? Babies in the UK are living longer and therefore life expectancy is increasing. The UK population is still growing but only slowly. However, by 2021 19% of the UK population will be pensioners. This is due to the baby boom after World War Two. Population pyramids are used to explain this process.
Unfortunately of that percentage a huge number need support through our social welfare system and NHS.
These are examples of some of what the government agencies have to try and manage, so populist Politicians who simplify our woes into "them and us' are spouting self promoting ********, they are currying favours amongst the masses, it is rabble rousing.
It is classic divide and rule.
GOVERNANCE IS AN ART NOT A SCIENCE.
Patriotic_Pete - | 3
26 Mar 2013 / #134
@Maybe
You raise some interesting and valid points my friend and as I said before I have no problem with Polish people per se.
I do, however, find it incredulous that we even allow foreign nationals to claim benefits here - that just doesn't make sense! But then neither does paying British pensioners resident in Spain and other warm EU climate areas a winter fuel allowance. My beef is with our government. As you say the problem lies in the system, OUR system! It is complicated, weak and IMHO not 'fit for purpose'. It needs a total overhaul.
To be honest, I just wish someone would get into government that really had the balls to be straight up honest with the public. Our country is near to meltdown and its borrowing is crippling us, why - well IMO its simple it costs more to run the country than the government is raising in taxes! Its not rocket science and I just wish we had a PM who would stand up and say something like "People of Britain, we have failed you, not just this party but every party since the 1980's [only since that is as far back as I can recall] we have been "vote winning" by promising tax cuts. Tax cuts that we delivered. Admittedly we also increased stealth taxes and indirect taxes to try and compensate but it just isn't working. The Truth is there isn't enough money in the pot to run a first world country if we continue like this. You have two choices, we can continue to make crippling cuts to public spending affecting everything from healthcare, policing and refuse collection. Or, you can accept that providing these services, living in a civilized world comes at a price, we can increase taxes and get this country back on its feet".
I for one would rather see a return to an income tax rate north of 25% perhaps as much as 30% as it was in Thatchers era. BUT only on the proviso that we also saw a return to some of the benefits we saw then. VAT at 15%,FREE dental check-ups, eye tests and prescriptions, etc.
The fact is it does cost money to run a country and if you want all the luxuries and creature comforts that made this nation great then you have to accept it comes with a price tag attached. A Price tag weALL have a responsibility to pay towards.
However I have drifted off topic (I do love a good debate). I agree that there are many Poles who come over here and integrate, work hard, pay their taxes etc. But there are also a disproportionately high number of lazy benefit cheats and criminal elements that 'milk the system'. And as I also point out in my original post, there are also many White British 'chavs' doing exactly the same. They are all nothing but'Oxygen Thieves'Pondlife Scum that doesn't deserve to live!!!
Sadly, however, I do object to some of those hard working Poles who come here to better their own lives as I do believe that they are taking up jobs that could be filled with British workers [if the system was changed to incentivize the lazy Chav Bas**rds to work]. Not that all the jobs being dome by Polish workers are menial, I am sure there are may jobs that British would gladly do IF they could get them. And herein lies part of the problem. I also object to the outpouring of funds from OUR economy to foreign lands, Polish or otherwise! Money earned in Britain should be spent in Britain. How else are we expected to get our country back on its feet?
Right, rant over. Time to put the soap box away...... For now anyway.
You raise some interesting and valid points my friend and as I said before I have no problem with Polish people per se.
I do, however, find it incredulous that we even allow foreign nationals to claim benefits here - that just doesn't make sense! But then neither does paying British pensioners resident in Spain and other warm EU climate areas a winter fuel allowance. My beef is with our government. As you say the problem lies in the system, OUR system! It is complicated, weak and IMHO not 'fit for purpose'. It needs a total overhaul.
To be honest, I just wish someone would get into government that really had the balls to be straight up honest with the public. Our country is near to meltdown and its borrowing is crippling us, why - well IMO its simple it costs more to run the country than the government is raising in taxes! Its not rocket science and I just wish we had a PM who would stand up and say something like "People of Britain, we have failed you, not just this party but every party since the 1980's [only since that is as far back as I can recall] we have been "vote winning" by promising tax cuts. Tax cuts that we delivered. Admittedly we also increased stealth taxes and indirect taxes to try and compensate but it just isn't working. The Truth is there isn't enough money in the pot to run a first world country if we continue like this. You have two choices, we can continue to make crippling cuts to public spending affecting everything from healthcare, policing and refuse collection. Or, you can accept that providing these services, living in a civilized world comes at a price, we can increase taxes and get this country back on its feet".
I for one would rather see a return to an income tax rate north of 25% perhaps as much as 30% as it was in Thatchers era. BUT only on the proviso that we also saw a return to some of the benefits we saw then. VAT at 15%,FREE dental check-ups, eye tests and prescriptions, etc.
The fact is it does cost money to run a country and if you want all the luxuries and creature comforts that made this nation great then you have to accept it comes with a price tag attached. A Price tag weALL have a responsibility to pay towards.
However I have drifted off topic (I do love a good debate). I agree that there are many Poles who come over here and integrate, work hard, pay their taxes etc. But there are also a disproportionately high number of lazy benefit cheats and criminal elements that 'milk the system'. And as I also point out in my original post, there are also many White British 'chavs' doing exactly the same. They are all nothing but'Oxygen Thieves'Pondlife Scum that doesn't deserve to live!!!
Sadly, however, I do object to some of those hard working Poles who come here to better their own lives as I do believe that they are taking up jobs that could be filled with British workers [if the system was changed to incentivize the lazy Chav Bas**rds to work]. Not that all the jobs being dome by Polish workers are menial, I am sure there are may jobs that British would gladly do IF they could get them. And herein lies part of the problem. I also object to the outpouring of funds from OUR economy to foreign lands, Polish or otherwise! Money earned in Britain should be spent in Britain. How else are we expected to get our country back on its feet?
Right, rant over. Time to put the soap box away...... For now anyway.
But there are also a disproportionately high number of lazy benefit cheats and criminal elements that 'milk the system'.
Some facts ?
The ignorant need no facts.
Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just go home please? Why would they? it would be illogical when the benefits are twice as high as wages at home, especially in relation to Ireland.
Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just go home please? Why would they? it would be illogical when the benefits are twice as high as wages at home, especially in relation to Ireland.
The fact is that many Poles abuse the system - they come to the UK with no language.
I think I am right in saying that if you are unemployed for more than six months and a national of another EU country, you are meant to return there.
In theory, unemployed citizens of EU countries are not meant to be a financial burden to the one they are living in. Therefore if they are not working, they only have six months to find it.
Whether this is enforced or not, it's hard to say but I am thinking it isn't.
I think this was how France was able to deport a bunch of Romanians who were not working.
AdamKadmon 2 | 494
30 May 2013 / #138
Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just go home please?
Because as Walter Benjamin wrote at the beginning of the fascist era:
Nur um der Hoffnungslosen willen ist uns die Hoffnung gegeben.
It is only for the sake of those without hope that hope is given to us.
So if you deport a bunch of Romanians who were not working and then a bunch of Poles then you will find themselves at the beginning of the fascist era. So keep the Poles as your most precious treasure - a gift from Poland.
Because as Walter Benjamin wrote at the beginning of the fascist era:
Nur um der Hoffnungslosen willen ist uns die Hoffnung gegeben.
It is only for the sake of those without hope that hope is given to us.
So if you deport a bunch of Romanians who were not working and then a bunch of Poles then you will find themselves at the beginning of the fascist era. So keep the Poles as your most precious treasure - a gift from Poland.
polishboo
15 Oct 2013 / #139
so they live in the uk and boo our national anthem i really hope england beat them
I wouldn't be happy if I was Polish and I knew someone that was english for 20 years and could not speak to them, I'd demand they go home.
Why?I don't care if they don't speak Polish as it's only for their benefit to speak the language of the country they live in.If they don't want to learn,let it be so but they shouldn't complain that they can't get done simpliest things because,surprise very few Poles speak English. One can live in Chicago whole life and get every single thing done without speaking a word of English but I can't imagine myself being miserable outside Polish community.
so they live in the uk and boo our national anthem
Do they?How do you know the ones booing live in the UK?
@grubas: If the UK didn't allow so many Poles into the country, the Poles would have to learn English.
And at booing the UK national anthem...that just upsets me so much. I'm not even British but I would say every single one of those Poles booing should be deported.
And at booing the UK national anthem...that just upsets me so much. I'm not even British but I would say every single one of those Poles booing should be deported.
I'm not even British but I would say every single one of those Poles booing should be deported.
Do they?How do you know the ones booing live in the UK?
surprise very few Poles speak English
What?
Taylor5788 - | 9
16 Oct 2013 / #143
It's one life only. I'm not saying that all Polish people live off benefits but many do.
and of course millions British scumbags are on benefits. What about young english girls that have children and dont care because they think they will be entitled to more benefits and a bigger, free house? Should they be deported or shot because they dont contribute to the economy?
It's not the fault of the Poles. Its the governments fault. If you have such a problem with foreign EU nationals coming to the UK because it is so easy to claim benefits and milk the system, then perhaps you should write to one of the cock's at Number 10 and not rant on a forum? :) Or just vote BNP?
What about young english girls that have children
Have you not noticed that a lot of young Polki's have joined this exclusive club. Maybe the English youths have a higher sperm count.
The only thing that I think should be done is to deport any one of foreign persuasion who commits a crime immediately.
i dont care if its english girls that are getting preggo to get the benefits - and i suspect getting the benefits isnt the first reason a women would choose to get pregnant either -
point is ,, shes english to begin - one of our own you might say ... ( or u may do if u were english) -
all the more galling is a polak or a.nother ,,whos not english and claiming for all they can - it some how feels worse ......because it is worse
point is ,, shes english to begin - one of our own you might say ... ( or u may do if u were english) -
all the more galling is a polak or a.nother ,,whos not english and claiming for all they can - it some how feels worse ......because it is worse
pierogi2000 4 | 226
17 Oct 2013 / #146
While I don't disagree with your point, it's just humorous used when discussing the UK. Your country is a mutt mix. What does an english woman even look, act or believe in these days?
On an off-chance that the OP's question is not trolling, here are few possibilities for an answer to "Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just go home please?".
* because they think that even without the job, they're still better off in UK,
* or, they are ashamed or have no prospects back home
* or they like UK better,
* or they hope that things will turn around and they'll get a job eventually
* because they think that even without the job, they're still better off in UK,
* or, they are ashamed or have no prospects back home
* or they like UK better,
* or they hope that things will turn around and they'll get a job eventually
pierogi2000 4 | 226
17 Oct 2013 / #148
That is known but little concern to a Brit
Wroclaw Boy
17 Oct 2013 / #149
Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just go home please?
why would they do that, stay in the UK and get money or go home and get nothing? humm tuff decision....
why would they do that, stay in the UK and get money or go home and get nothing? humm tuff decision....
The same I'd ask chavs to get jobs and stop relying on gov support...
I am ashamed of the benefit scourgers regardless of their nationality. Even here, in Australia, they think of many vicious ways just to get money for nothing.
I am ashamed of the benefit scourgers regardless of their nationality. Even here, in Australia, they think of many vicious ways just to get money for nothing.