Sugar tax in the UK. Polish friends addicted?

i've noticed an increase in fat kids, but nothing like the number of fat kids you see in the UK

If anything, I see more obesity in Poland, especially among men.

I've noticed an increase in the number of overweight young women in Poland. There are still plenty of those terrifyingly skinny ones but quite a lot of young ladies who look as if they'd had a few too many fish suppers.

Than in the UK? Rather doubtful - I've checked statistics for 2013 and 2014 and the UK usually comes as the second most obese country in Europe. Poles are getting fatter but I doubt they were able to catch up with the UK only in a year, let alone become more obese...

It rather depends on how/when/who/which gender or age group and by whom it's measured, as well as which statistics are more reliable.

Certainly there seem to be many more men with fat bellies in PL. As well as a diet much higher in sugar salt and (the real danger) wędliny.

True, it also depends on the year, that's why I've checked more than one year. All the articles and reports that I've seen usually contained general data - for the whole population, as I've understood. For Europe the UK always came as the second most obese country in Europe and Poland was somewhere down the charts. Here's an article on Polish site of Deutsche Welle with a chart shown (data from WHO report):

dw.com/pl/epidemia-oty%C5%82o%C5%9Bci-w%C4%99grzy-najgrubsi-polacy-po%C5%9Brodku-rankingu/a-16822974

Hungary was the most obese, then came the UK and Poland was somewhere in the middle.


Are you sure about that? Here's an OECD update on obesity from June 2014:
oecd.org/health/Obesity-Update-2014.pdf

According to those data adult British men were the second most obese in Europe after Hungarians "in 2012 or nearest year"

Also (article from 2011):
telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/8476754/British-men-among-fattest-in-Europe.html

"The study, into the rise of heart and lung disease, cancer, stroke and diabetes, ranked UK men as the third fattest in Europe, with 67.8 per cent of males 15 or over either overweight or obese.

Only Greece (77.5 per cent) and Malta (73.3 per cent) are fatter."


According to the article in The Telegraph the UK "is the ninth least active nation in the world, with 63.3 per cent of adults taking less than 30 minutes of moderate exercise five times a week. Of the major nations, only Saudi Arabia (68.8) and Argentina (68.3) are less active."

So maybe here's your culprit. Although I'm pretty sure the diet must have something to do with it too, let us not fool ourselves :)

From the article in The Telegraph:
"Launching the report, Dr Margaret Chan, Director-General of the WHO, placed the blame for the "impending disaster" of chronic NCDs on multinational corporations that sell cheap food and drink laden with fat and sugar, without considering the consequences for society."

All those fast food, ready meals, sugary drinks, chips, etc.
And don't forget about calories in alcohol too:
nhs.uk/Livewell/alcohol/Pages/calories-in-alcohol.aspx

Absolutely sure, Paulina.

Don't rely on things you've found on the Internet - observe for yourself. Do you spend much time in both countries?

You may also note that none of your internet findings talk about nationality - and any results in the UK include a million Poles...

And yes, the Polish diet is among the least healthy in Europe and the inhabitants of Poland are among the least physically active in Europe.

lol

I'm sorry, jon357, but I trust WHO and OECD more than I trust your observations :) I suspect data from such respectable organisations are more objective than you, I'm afraid ;)

Unless you have more recent data from WHO - than show me, only then I'll believe, because I know you too well :P


Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, maybe they are, maybe they aren't - the point is the British are one of the most obese nations in Europe (unless something changed in 2015 - then, again, show me the stats):

nhs.uk/livewell/loseweight/pages/statistics-and-causes-of-the-obesity-epidemic-in-the-uk.aspx

And the British are the ninth least active nation in the world.

I guess it's good that your government isn't in denial and wants to do something about it :)


LOL!
Blame it on the Poles, I see! :)) They take your jobs, they take your benefits, they take over your neighbourhoods, they speak Polish and... they make you fat in WHO reports!! Those pesky Poles! :D Haha :D I must say you made my day, jon357 ;)

According to the estimate for 2014 there are 64,511,000 people living in the UK. I really doubt even one million of people would have such an impact on such a big nation as to alter those WHO data to such extent.

And who's making Chile, Canada, Australia, Hungary, New Zealand, Mexico and the US so fat? Also those pesky Poles, eh? ;)
No, it's not the food, sedentary lifestyle and lack of exercise, it must be the Poles' fault! :)

Lol as much as you like Paulina, write long studenty diatribes but it all comes down to how reliable the stats supplied by Poland are.

Get as touchy as you like, use as many emoticons as you can squeeze out - it doesn't alter the fact that the traditional diet of Poland is extremely unhealthy, with high levels of salt, sugar, extremely high levels of processed meats.

I doubt you've had much chance to compare people. There are a lot of fact people in Poland, especially the men, and more worryingly, some of the highest levels of stomach cancer in Europe.

You mean data from WHO and OECD for Poland are unreliable and for other countries are reliable? Any proof for such claim?


But I'm not the one getting touchy here :)) It was you who immediately reacted after mcrpolak's comment like a true British patriot, which I found to be funny ;) I also remembered watching some news on the BBC about the UK being "the fat man of Europe" and so I googled a bit.


Jon357, I'm not discussing traditional diet of Poland and the UK, but which nation is more obese. WHO data show that the UK was and probably still is, unless you can prove otherwise (with data and not your wishful thinking).

Btw, I'm not sure if by "traditional diet" you mean traditional dishes of Polish cuisine. If yes, then to be honest I don't associate British traditional food with something terribly healthy. And even if it is, let us assume, more healthy than Polish (which I doubt because both are Northern nations) do the British eat their traditional food anymore?:

listovative.com/top-15-fattest-countries-world-rtr/

"If Ireland is here, England can't be too far away, can it? After the World War 2, UK saw a boost in industrialization, commercialization along with general growth and development. This has very well paved the path to obesity in the country. Researchers opine that due to the modernization of culture, their traditional food is less available and fast food and junk and unhealthy food is more readily available.The obesity rate in UK as of now is 23% and it only seems to be increasing day by day."

I think it's no surprise that the least obese countries in the EU were and maybe still are: Romania, Italy, Bulgaria and France:
wiadomosci.onet.pl/wielka-brytania-i-irlandia/w-ue-najwiecej-otylych-w-wielkiej-brytanii-i-na-malcie-usa-wciaz-na-1-miejscu/lvfs1

This data is from 2008 and 2009 and the UK even then came at the top (1st place for women and 2nd for men).


I don't, but my mum was in the UK and there was plenty of comparison done by the British for years on this forum.

Btw, as for the British men that I've met in my city - I've met more overweight ones than slim ones, for what it's worth (the most overweight one was married to an English lady who was a chef in a restaurant, btw ;) - and yet in the UK she was feeding her children with frozen fries bought in a store and pizza... *smh*).

And, anyway, the UK is such a multicultural country (so many Poles, as you say) so how do you know that those slim men that you see are British and not Polish, for example? :) ;)


There are a lot of fat people in the EU and Europe (I think that I've read somewhere that 50% are overweight) and it's getting worse, including in Poland - you can, for example, hear it on Polish TV - about Polish kids getting fatter and hence the government's reaction about the food and drinks being sold and served in schools. However, there are less and more obese nations in Europe and apparently the UK is one of the most overweight nations in Europe. More so than Poland, unless, of course, you can prove otherwise with more recent data.

From what I have observed, young women in Poland generally seem to be quite slim in comparison to those in the UK. Not the case for Polish males though, and those middle aged and over.

I think the problem will get worse, as it has done in the UK. The rise of sugar, salt and fat laden fast food and ready meals, combined with less exercise, has had an effect on the UK population, and I don't think it's any coincidence that now this type of food is becoming more popular in Poland, Poles are getting heavier.

I still don't think Poland has the obesity problem the UK has. Yet. I see far fatter people here, and more of them. Or maybe it's just the area I live in!


That would be all the pickled vegetables, and high salt levels. I've read about this before.

Well, all the media in Poland claim that Poles are getting fatter so it must be the case. Can't say that I've noticed it in my city but it's a poor region so maybe people can't afford all that junk food in fast foods lol

Btw, where do you live?

Ah, it was in this article - 50% of people in the EU are overweight:
dw.com/pl/epidemia-oty%C5%82o%C5%9Bci-w%C4%99grzy-najgrubsi-polacy-po%C5%9Brodku-rankingu/a-16822974
:/

I meant I see far fatter people in the UK Paulina, which is where I live.

Ah, OK, sorry, I was reading in a hurry and misunderstood - I thought you live in Poland for some reason.
Chemikiem, are you British? Do you guys still eat the stuff that is considered to be "traditional British food"?

I am indeed British! I do all my own cooking from scratch, and never touch fast food as I just don't like it, but I can't say I personally cook traditional British food that often. I tend to cook quite spicy food, or make pasta or couscous dishes.


There may well be something in what you say here. Maybe there is less obesity in areas with less money generally, or in areas where there isn't so much access to fast food. I will be staying with friends in a small town in Poland next Easter, so I will have to observe people's weight ;)

I wouldn't rely too much on Internet stuff, Paulina, including what people say here. A better way is to analyse what's actually eaten, the amount of sugar, salt and processed meats (wędliny is the real culprit - there's nothing good about it either for nutrition, health or very often flavour).

Chemikiem is right about the diet being different in poorer areas. In the UK the very poor are fatter and better off people are slimmer. In Poland the opposite is often true.

Also good healthy, low sugar/salt food is more easily available in the UK when eating out. If you analyse what goes into an average Sphinx meal, you'd be surprised.

A little of what you fancy does you good - your soul if not your heart, especially if you buy good quality produce like Kindziuk or the excellent dry Biebrzański suasage from Kabo. I pigged out on a smoked bacon and egg breakfast last Sunday. It was my first for ages, and I probably won't do it again this month. I also can't resist a good smalec if I see one, again, not too often.

Yesterday I observed what was in students' lunch boxes and was pleased to see all kinds of salads and other good things (the girls' ones, anyway).

Yes, me too, the food I eat is most often made from scratch. I do like fast food, but I eat it so rarely - a kebab maybe once three months or maybe even less often lol The same with hamburgers... My friend worked in a fast food in the UK and she told me what they're doing to food in those places (the chemicals, omg o_O), I doubt it's much better in Poland so I eat this stuff very rarely nowadays.


I'm not relying on some "Internet stuff" but WHO reports.


Sure, unless those people are you, right? lol :)


An even better way is to analyse data from WHO which are respected worldwide, as opinions and observations of individuals can be subjective and can be even affected by chauvinism.


I don't eat wędliny, I use szynkowar to make my own stuff :) It's quite simple although takes a while:
youtube.com/watch?v=c4RI3pJHZQM
No preservatives, only some spices and there you go :) I recommend it!


Maybe so, but why there's such an obesity epidemic in the UK then?


Jon357, but Poles rarely eat out - they can't afford it. And usually you can get better, tastier food at home than in restaurants, anyway. People usually eat at home and make meals from scratch. Btw, as for Sphinx, I ate there twice in my life. The second time was in Warsaw, I had to eat sth while I was waiting for a train so I went to Sphinx at Złote Tarasy. The waiter asked whether I liked my food and because of my inbred politeness I lied that I did ;P The fries were dreadful - nothing like those made from potatos given by my grandma ;)


Could be the case, I guess. The British men that I've met here who were slim were English teachers and the obese ones were factory workers.

I don't know if it's a factor in the UK, but I know that in the US, for example, people eat much more, I mean, the dishes are bigger than the ones in Poland and in Europe probably too.

I get what you're saying, but until relatively recent times, I don't suppose the Polish diet has changed that much over the years, and there wasn't the levels of increasing obesity Poland now has.

It's not that healthy a diet in terms of saturated fat and salt for sure. What has changed though, is the advent of fast food/ready meals etc in Poland, just as it has in the UK. This is what I feel is to blame, not just in Poland and the UK, but in the whole of Europe. That type of food is laden with sugar, salt and saturated fats.


This is true, and in some restaurant chains, there is now a breakdown of what your meal consists of on the menu, so you can make a more informed choice.


Generally, I would say this is true, and my Polish friends in England rarely do either, but I have walked past many fast food outlets in various Polish cities, and I don't think that every single person in them can just be tourists.


Because rubbish food is cheap here Paulina, it's more expensive to eat healthily. You can probably buy crap like chicken nuggets here for a lot less than the price of fruit and veg.

I agree. And sedentary lifestyle. When I was a kid, I was playing outside and often playing at home too with my brother or other kids in all kinds of games, since not always I could watch TV even (and there were only two channels lol) due to electricity shortages during communist times. Nowadays kids spend their time in front of computer nad TV apparently. Although I must say that during summer there's plenty of kids in the local playground and most of them aren't obese.


Well, of course not, I didn't claim that :) But some British men often wrote on PF that poor people are more likely to eat junk food in fast foods which isn't the case (at least not in Poland). And of course times are changing and probably more and more people eat out more often in Poland but I suspect that still not as often as in the West.


I suspect that it also saves time and effort - to buy a ready meal or fast food than cook everything from scratch at home.

The problem is that it wasn't great before and has been increasingly based on convenience foods now - just look at what's in the average smallish food shop.

I don't bother to read Paulina's posts and haven't for a long time, it would be like watching a cat thrashing about with fortunately blunt claws while you wash it under the tap and still trying to use its teeth as well - that or Vikki Pollard with a couple of A levels, but the first couple of points are a fairly standard response to perceived criticism of the country based on a national myth that the diet in Poland is somehow very healthy, natural etc. The reality is that they're Europe's largest consumer of frozen chips and pot noodles and have huge sales of quite a lot of other nasties too.

And though she may deny it, wędliny (basically embalmed flesh) is horrifically unhealthy and is also the staple diet. Plus the very fast rise of fast food without the cynicism based on longer exposure to it. The pizza shops do a roaring trade and there are actually queues in the Warsaw kebab shops.

When people eat healthily, it's either because they make a conscious effort or because they can only afford veg.

I was once told that the biggest isle in a Polish supermarket is the sweets one, is that true.

Agreed. Like you I was always outdoors as a child. Today kids don't get anywhere near the amount of exercise past generations did.


Also true. I think some people just make poor choices as regards eating. Fast food should be an occasional treat if you like it, not a lifestyle choice.


This is also the problem. People are so busy these days and many don't find the time to cook proper food.
There are many factors at play here, but it will only get worse if something isn't done.


Yes, I have noticed the many packets/sachets of things like Budyń ( in various flavours ), which are loaded with sugar.
Plus the very syrupy looking ( and probably loaded with sugar ) cordials.


I didn't know that, I'm really quite surprised.

It's all too dismal to be honest, and I get really annoyed when i see small children overweight, because unless they have a medical problem, it's the parent's fault for giving them the wrong things to eat, or too much to eat.

The key is as it always has been, everything in moderation.

I just read Paulina's last post and it actually has some very good points. I'd add though, about eating out, that it isn't so rare in cities - some of the restaurants are packed. But yes, many people can't afford to and those restaurants that are busy tend to be the ones selling the least health food. Even the old Bary Mleczny do a roaring trade in macaroni with sugar on.

Worth mentioning that a decline in physical activity among the young and the rise in car ownership is responsible for a lot.

A sugar tax might be the way forward - salt more so. But that's only part of the story. I'm not convinced about the value of healthy eating education unless it's done properly either (and that costs a fortune in money and a hell of a lot of effort). The way to encourage people to eat less stodge is by a carrot not a stick. 'Thinspiration' and 'pro-ana' will never catch on, and some governments want to ban websites about it.

In Poland, it seems to be more a male issue. I was really surprised when I first arrived to see couples in cheap restaurants (there were hundreds of Vietnam bars round Warsaw in those days) where the man was tucking in to a huge meal and the woman was sitting there with a glass of water. The answer is to sell the benefits of being slim (I've been both fat and slim in my time'and feel much better when below a certain weight) to men.

They're actively discouraged in many cases, too. I can't go into details, but I've seen a lot of examples over the past years on how kids are strongly discouraged from actually doing anything that might resemble exercise if it's not in a very controlled environment.