The slow, whiny death of British Christianity

Science and faith are not diametrically opposed, no matter how much you want them to be.

I don't believe that at all. However, accepting a theory as fact for a question that is still open seems to counter the spirit of science...just a little bit. The big problem is when that theory comes with baggage. Take FSM, at least worship of his noodliness doesn't come with a rulebook.

True, we have come to the conclusion that we don't need religion anymore. And I don't care about it. They're not in my way, but I wouldn't mind as well if it were to disappear as a whole.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Science can only answer how, not why or whom. We both are seeking truths. I understand the baggage remark. I consider faith and religion to be very separate things, I'm not a huge fan of religion. Maybe its just the way Xian is practiced here in the States, Dogma is pretty much laughed at. Here its considered an individual walk with other like-minded people, not so much as a brand. I've enjoyed our series of posts here because it gave me a chance explain an oft-maligned group of people. I can respect a person who chooses not to believe in something. Hopefully, you can say the same about people who choose to.

Communist influence?You see the Czechs remained atheists after communism disappeared so they ''gain'' sth after each system adventure.No bad clear of good as our ancient forefathers used to say.

Stats, Seanus?...Who votes in these polls?...As Stalin said: 'It doesn't matter how many people vote, it is who counts the votes that matter.'...Also, we obviously live in different neighborhoods.

It's hard to say as they don't always disclose the participants due to the ethics of it all etc. This is not an election, Joe ;) ;)

Things are different in America, that's true. Europe will be put to the sword more but if people don't blame the War on Terror on Christians (as they shouldn't do) then it should, ceteris paribus, maintain its popularity.

I do other things in, and with nature.

;)


Not if there's a group which supports the kind of social control which condemns sex before marriage.

I think it's something they need to make peace with, because I accept the fact these people have the right to live however they want to live, eventhough they're a real small minority right now. They've never accepted the fact that I didn't want to live like they wanted to live. And there's the difference. I wasn't looking for acceptance within their group. I was looking for the right to live how I want to live, without catching abuse from them all the time.


Yes, your control, since you're the one who says we need it. I mean, whatever you choose to support is yours, isn't it?

Social control is totally unnecessary. We have laws, rules and a sense of morality. We've all agreed that certain behaviour is unnacceptable, which is what we call crime. Religion itself will never stop anyone from doing anything. All religion ever did was covering a society under a blanket of make-belief, lies and hypocrisy. Religiously motivated control isn't social control. I would rather call that thought-policing, which usually results in segregation, social terror, mental - aswell as physical oppression.


You can tell that to the people who wrapped me up in barbwire once. (When I was five.)


I guess I'm flaming a litte. I mean, you're an educated woman, so you must have some kind of opinion of your own.


Read the Qu'ran. Most Muslims follow the example of Mohammed to a certain extent. You should read how he feels about women. His teachings do not condemn rape. Quite the contrary. His teachings encourage rape.

Religion has everything to do with control. (Or should I say a lack of control?)


I just wish to know where you stand.

:)


Oh, there will be a culture-shift alright, but not the one you're envisioning here. See, you seem to forget one thing; The majority of the second or third generation of Arabian immigrants will probably renounce their religion aswell. I mean, a lot of pretty Moroccan girls here seem to be very interested in Dutch guys, and they're obviously not wearing a Ni'qab, Hijab, Hidjaab or Jilbab..

:)


Who's taunting who here? Beheading? Really?


Seanus, you can drag as many scientific research and surveys into this discussion as you want, but none of these theories change the fact that religion has nothing to do with immigration laws. (Seperation of Church and State, remember?)

I don't hate God. I don't hate you either. I don't believe that a God who loves all of us unconditionally would condemn anyone. People do that. I just want to be able to live my life and make my own decisions within the boundaries of our laws, without catching any abuse for that. (Making a few mistakes doesn't make you a monster.) That's all.

;)

There are still Christians in the UK? Last time I was in London, it felt a lot like Pakistan, and so I sort of figured that is the general gist of the whole island these days. Shocking to hear there are still some pools of old Europe around... I'm sure the coming Muslim majority will take care of any stragglers, and then the whole of the UK will be 99.9% non Christian. Will be so awesome, can't wait! :D

London is the capital and full the brim of foreigners (aparently the streets are paved with gold!)...I live amongst Churches (Catholic, CofE and Othordox) and Synagogues, not a mosque in sight and there are plenty of nice little quaint villages that you can see how life is in England..not some cess pit like London.

There are also plenty that are converting to Catholosism because it means they dont have to send their kids to school with 3rd world immigrants who cant even speak the language :D

homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/press-releases/coalition-immigration-limit11

Net migration will be scaled back to the levels of the 1990s - to tens of thousands rather than hundreds of thousands. Introducing a limit on migrants from outside Europe coming here to work is just one of the ways the Government intends to achieve this.

Better late than never, now if Eastern Europeans stop marrying pakisin sham marriages we'll be even better off.

I will pray for the future of U.K although I see a grim future

I didn't say otherwise, A J. My point was that they come freely to the UK anyway and they don't need our nod of approval either. From within, we will grant too much to an ungrateful child that has powerful toys. This child will get bigger and come to make us regret any help given.

Norway has also suffered from so-called charity. I watched a documentary where a Norwegian kid was made to feel bad for just being who he was by Muslims. He is constantly harassed at school.

We know what the immigration laws are in many countries, that's really not what I was discussing at all. They can get in quite easily and that's the point.

Not exactly, but you made it sound like their growing influence has something to do with the waning popularity of Christianity, while in reality, the current immigration policy is the only explanation for their presence.


Oh, but they do need our approval, because we have to live with them. People can sign and file petitions you know, and laws can be changed or adjusted.


Sounds familiar.


I was, because it's obviously issue-related.


Well, it seems to me that you guys are running out of jobs and houses over there, so there's only one logical conclusion.

;)

I'm fully aware of free movement and the ease with which they drift into the UK, A J. There are converts but that's a minor part of the discussion. We want this state of affairs as it's an extension of the police state as seen in Russia and China. America and Britain are tentatively going off down that road, albeit in small measure. We want them in so we can create jobs and monitor them. The proliferation of new legislation, e.g The Patriot Act in America and the terrorism legislation in the UK just goes to prove that. British officers don't have that much to do now that the PTA doesn't need to be readily enforced (Good Friday Agreement now) so they are looking for new causes. In steps Islam :)

No offence, A J, but you are from Holland where those kinds of democratic tools likely work and are held in high regard. They don't need the government's nod of approval, that's what I meant. Petitions often fall on deaf ears, e.g animal cruelty in China, and why would Britain change the freedom of religion that it is sworn to uphold? They might invoke public security concerns but they won't ensconce anything in legislation so anti-Islamic in the near future as it would be to put out a bad message and really make Britain look bad. I'm not advocating being overly liberal, just realistic. The state works the media and they are controlled by globalists. They can manufacture what they want and they have the means to control that. How many Islamic folk are in prominent political positions in the UK?

It is a related issue, yes. But how do you want to flesh it out? The policies are too lenient, will likely lead to future harm and will make terrorist cells harder to infiltrate if they keep popping up. What other dimesion of the problem do you want to address, A J?

Yup, lebensraum ;) ;)

WOT a creation of neo con Jews to get Christians and Muslims at each others throats...Also, any true religious faith, or belief in God, is not a popularity contest, but matter of faith...Non-believers of course have right to their 'non-faith'...What makes me very angry is the fact that these attacks on the faith are always given high priority in press, while the enormous amount of Christian believers, and their acts, are consigned to the memory hole...But, 'there is nothing new under the sun'...Also, many people get distorted picture from media that 'Christian Zionists' or 'Evangelicals' represent the Christian church...Not true, but fostered by media to disparage Christ Himself.

Joe, let's face it and get down to brass tacks. How many people who claim to worship Jesus really follow in his ways? Modern life doesn't always allow for displays of generosity and virtuous ways. Isn't it then misleading to speak of numbers when they are, in effect, mindless tickers of boxes?

Ducks out of the way of the incoming sweep ;) ;)

Whiny death of BC? What? Religion can work in parallel to tactical voting at an election. If one party gets ahead of steam, others swing round and parry the threat. We know the dangers of Sharia Law and they can go and swing from the trees if they think it will ever be passed through.

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." - G.K. Chesterson

I've known plenty of Christian employers who claimed to worship Jesus. Well, one thing's for sure, they do force their own personnel to live like Jesus.

xD

they aren't? hmm.. that's interesting as i haven't seen one shred of scientific evidence that god exists in reality.

Neither is there a shred of evidence that God DOES NOT EXIST. Both options are a matter of personal choice, predisposition, prejudice or, if you will, faith.

and you must be one of his followers if that even makes any sense to you.. i'm guessing you may not understand the basics of science.. good luck with that..

I have seen the light!

I: You shall develop a sense of humour.
II: You shall treat others as if they are your own flesh and blood.
III: You shall make love, not war.
IV: You shall try to share that which you have in abundance with those who haven't.
V: You shall never judge or condemn yourself, or someone else for a thought or an opinion.
VI: You shall try to help the one who steals from you to a job.
VII: You shall appreciate good food, alcohol, music, sports, literature, humour, videogames, films, theatre, art, poetry, soft-drugs and lots of sex.
VIII: You shall try to make atleast one person smile every day.
IX: You shall stop talking to dead people, and start talking to eachother.
X: You shall treat your lesser with the same respect as your superiour.
XI: You shall never speak on my behalf, and not answer any questions to which you don't know the answer.
XII: You shall not harm anyone who isn't harming you.
XIII: You shall shave your pubic hairs.

Super-Amen.

:)

sounds like communism


that surely would kill this forum, wouldn't it? lol

Or just simple generousity.


Why? You can still make jokes. Check I.

;)

ok, i'll give you that. lol

all those rules and hard work and then you die. ;)