That's not really true though is it, thug? Increasing numbers of Polish workers are choosing to settle in the UK to raise children. I should know
Than you should also know that every citizen of an EU member state is today also an EU citizen with all the rights that go with it. Those rights are based on the free movement of persons, goods, services and capital across the internal markets, another words they have the right to settle and work anywhere the hell they wish, once again nothing illegal about it, infect same holds true for the citizens of GB they can move settle and work freely on the continent. Though those rights may enhance our personal liberty, allow us to work freely within EU and live wherever the hell we chose that’s the theory at least at this stage of the game for many of us the bulk of those rights that come with this status are still economic in nature which in turn create tension and resentment by the local population when a larger group settles there. A theory does not always go hand in hand with reality on the ground but that’s a whole separate debate isn’t it? It’s not like they don’t have the right to do so if they wish, is it?
Brits need to realise that their govt badly mismanaged things due to the classically British 'I'm alright Jack' attitude.
In my opinion British government did not mismanaged anything, the implementation of the theory that is EU happen much too soon as far as the labor force goes but that holds true for every member state, some were just smarter going about it and giving themselves a few years of breathing room and to see how it all eventually plays out which in turn put a greater burden on the three states GB by far the grater recipient of the labor of them all so I’m kind of confused as to why such a big surprise there as if that could not be anticipated but they were pushed to do so by the big business and eventually bound to happen anyway and now they just play the blame game, playing the poor classes against each other. You’re right of course that they exercised their rights, but it’s not incidental it’s part of globalization, EU is just a first stage of implementing it across the globe.
i was referring to immigration as a whole in the uk and the fact that non-eu immigrants illegal in the uk make it just as hard for polish people to live and work here.
Like it or not it’s part of a greater picture; globalization, powers behind the scenes put their policy on a fast track making it unbearable for the poor and middle class of the more affluent countries in the process, creating an inflight between those classes is just their pressure valve a way of diverting the attention from their ultimate goal, in the meantime their policy and their push to achieve the ultimate goal can proceed with impunity and their citizens not any wiser. By partly supporting their policy of diversity as not to be perceived as a racist you my dear are unconsciously playing their game, in my personal opinion it would be much wiser to promote cooperation between the nation states on all levels including freedom of travel and work on temporary basis without resettlement and without the multiculturalism aspect of it, this in itself would take care of the leaches as they would have to work to sand the money back home to support their families. Let’s face it human kind have not grown up to that stage yet, we’re still at a tribal faze of it all and the inflight be it on the class or ethnic level reinforces this theory of mine for me personally that is. I suspect it will still take a long time for us as human species to reach that utopian stage that you partially support.
SHT, of course they mishandled things. Sweden, Ireland and the UK were the first to really open up and the UK got stung by excessive numbers of immigrants. The floodgates were opened by the signing of a treaty and normal, everyday people have to live with its implications. They didn't individually consent to it, it was thrust upon them.
The forecasts presented to the British public were hashed and FAR too wide of the mark to believe that any credible authority had put the stats together. The Poles were the new kids on the block and, as such, were convenient scapegoats for disillusioned Brits.
That's exactly the centerpiece of my argument. Same can be achieved by simply lifting only certain restrictions and obstacles facing multinational corporation in this day and age and the rest would take care of itself but the powers that be have no patience for that so they force on us all. What’s good for the business in a short term is not necessarily good for our society; we can all have a piece of land that we can call home. The current policy is to speed up this process and that will be its downfall.
indeed it is our great welshmen who enjoy their fluffy cloud like companions a little too much ;)
sht
you have totally contradicted me.
I believe eu nationals being free to roam the eu as they please is a brilliant thing. it is amazing and helps to create less conflicts between neighbour countries.
Immigration, or rather the idea of it, is not a bad thing either. It can work to promote a country.
What is damaging uk national and eu citizens who wish to reside in the uk is the fact labour screwed up, let too many people in, didn't get the illegals out, and naffed out leaving us with the mess to sort out.
why else would a country who has been staunchly labour since maggie thatcher therefore vote in a lib-con coalition government?
We don't even like the cons.
yes my country is in a state, we have illegals all over the damn thing, we have no money, we're billions of pound in debt, we have america up our a$$es over iraq, and the media are blaming the wrong people all together.
But that is the media not us. You think we wanted immigration to be open that much? Do you think labour put that in their manifesto when we voted them in again? No, which is why they have no power now.
You need to accept the UK is happy to accept a level of immigration. We are happy to have EU citizens reside here. Its good for the economy, but neither uk or EU citizens can work, or have a decent level of housing due to the sheer fact of non-EU immigrants. The amount of illegal immigrants is astounding. We're in a huge recession and we can't even get jobs cleaning the toilets or in factories because illegals will take a lower wage and cash in hand. it saves money and taxes. No EU nationals including brits can find work.
Now, we pay the cost as a country, all down to one idiot political party. Just brill.
indeed it is our great welshmen who enjoy their fluffy cloud like companions a little too much ;)
Hey, did anyone actually ask the sheep who they'd prefer to keep them company during the night?
Give it 20 or 50 years and Immigration will be a thing of the past. The only way society can evolve is to get rid of this notion of "national borders".
Only 3 things will make the world move on. Religion (we have pretty much laughed that one out the window, it's old and declining), War (It's been going on for centuries and yet not one country/countries have exerted enough power to keep the rest below them) and Money (which seems to be the new plan of attack i.e the middle-east, democracy means capitalism in it's greatest form and false freedom for those who live in it).
I believe eu nationals being free to roam the eu as they please is a brilliant thing.
Don’t have to convince me on that point, thrust me I’m with you.
Immigration, or rather the idea of it, is not a bad thing either. It can work to promote a country.
Immigration creates tension within working class no matter how high are your qualifications and position, there’s always someone out there whose qualification are as good as yours but willing to work for a much lower wage as the living expense in his native land is not as high and not limited to those that do the manual labor. Points being that the politicians are just a tool in corporate hands of achieving their goals with blatant disregard of what impact it has on the rest of the society. That mixing of cultures is simply unnecessary in promoting or creating a batter understanding and mutual respect of different cultures, infect it does the opposite. By design it’s a well-planned dissipation on their part and it works too. Blame for the sad shape the nations states seem to be is put on a political parties and the sad reality of the labor is placed on the new comer’s as if; when in reality it’s simply the corporate greed that created it in the first place and in constant search of cheaper and cheaper cost of doing business, not a bad thing either but in labor market at least the balance has shifted in their favor.
If it wasn’t this party or that another would do the same as they would do anything to achieve their goal be it through lobbing or good old fission bribery. The sad thing is we as the society let them get away with it by assigning the blame at a ready-made source presented to us by them in the first place just to divert our attention from the real problem. When there’s equilibrium the system works but when it’s heavily in favor of one side or the other tensions arise. It’s time for the people to shad the false premises implanted in us and attack the problem at its source instead of where the mass media, some radical politician or corporate deception guides us.
We simply have to start thinking for ourselves fighting for our rights is not racism or lack of tolerance but blaming the newcomers for whatever ails the society is not going to solve those problems either. Of course the business world will always try to pay less tax, threaten to leave if they don’t get some kind of subsidies or tax breaks, have well qualified labor force at a cheap rate etc. Labor force on the other hand will always want to have higher wages with some kind of job security and a prospect for better future etc. This eternal struggle of the titans has been heavily skewed these days in favor of the corporate interest that it’s not even funny, what is funny though is that the sheep guided by the media or some radical politician pick a point of view that has nothing to do with the underlying cause of the problem which in turn will never be fixed, they prefer for someone else to their thinking for them and fight among themselves.
See I do not vote in the elections in the UK. I refuse to take any part in politics. I have strong views on politics, but I don't want to be part of it. politicians are liars. They cheat, spend money like its going out of fashion, lie and generally ruin the country. People say if i have views on politics i should vote or not discuss it, but it isn't that i don't want to vote. its that i don't agree wholly with any parties policies. I love politics, but if i don't vote, when it goes to pot i can say with a clear conscience i hate what you did. I don't think people have a right to whinge about the govt if they voted them in.
Every election I go through each parties policies and look at the merits and dismerits. I can never justify voting one in if i do not agree wholly with the whole policy.
UKIP probably has the best general policies, but their main thing is independance from the EU which I will never vote for. That is what makes GB what it is. Labour screwed us again and again, and i don't agree with the cons, lib dems or BNP. I hate the BNP with a passion.
The minor parties have good intentions, but never anything concrete. We need a party that supports the EU, supports gay rights, supports public spending in the right way, and who will do something about open boarders to non-eu nationals.
We need an EU party. hmmmmm might start me own. :)
2. Illegal immigrants are harder to get rid of than gonorrhea because of our human rights laws.
3. Fake ID's are manufactured like sweets.
4. Poles live (not all) like sardines in order to save money, not because of lack of housing.
5. Slightly overstaying your visa is against the law - you are an illegal immigrant and you said you didnt like them - make up your mind!
6. Cash in hand jobs are within ethnic communities - you know those immigrants!
Immigration is a good thing as long as it serves the country, at the moment Britain needs less people not more..so at the moment immigration isnt really necessary from anywhere!.
Labour opened the doors, Conservatives will try and shut them, its unfortunate we may lose out on some skilled 3rd country people because we have tons of scum pouring in from within! the EU.... I say this because I have a few friends who are none EU who worry every time the company goes through redundancies and they may lose their Tier 2 sponsorship - these people spent thousands in this country on their education and are well integrated and soooooooooooooooooo talented its unbelievable, yet its adios Britain if they lose their jobs - yet some scummy criminal can come here just because he happened to be born in the right country!
I have yet to meet any brits in the north of the uk with an issue with the poles living here. And there are a lot in newcastle areas. Yes illegal immigrants i dislike, i think it is unneccessary. There is a huge lack of housing in the uk widely broadcast by the govt figures. EU people have a right to affordable housing in britain, and i can't think of any poles who would have to use fake id in order to live here. They don't have to live like sardines to afford it if they are paid a fair wage and have access to social housing units. That is the whole idea of social housing.
Please do not take what i said out of context. I said slightly overstaying your visa when settled with a family in the uk is kinda alright. Meaning as long as they get it sorted, get it renewed, apply again whatever. It is not fair on their children.
And immigrants who are here legally do not generally work cash in hand. When places which pay cash in hand are raided etc it is normally illegal immigrants working there who are carrying fake or no id, and they are usually deported. Like i said, normally, usually, and generally. I cannot obviously speak for every situation.
It is good for the uk to have eu nationals come live and work here. Yes we need less people, so the people who live here legally i.e. brits, eu nationals, and legal immigrants can live and work properly. We need the illegal immigrants gone, not everybody.
Look at the national figures. Off all immigrants in the uk, most have absconded. They cannot be found to be deported. Thats what we need to work on. We get them out and pay the cost. Don't kid yourself that the uk would be ok without foreign nationals whether eu or non-eu living and working here. Why do you think we opened immigration open borders in the first place?
Look at the state of the country. We can't fix it on our own.
And as long as your friends from non-eu are here legally they have nothing to worry about. Benefits will be available to them to assist.
And we deport criminals non-eu and eu who are wanted or have outstanding arrest warrants.
Don't blame it on EU nationals. You wanna stop them coming here, then they have every right to stop us going there. Which means no moving to russia, no moving to spain, poland, france, italy, romania, anywhere. Sit and languish in the good old uk with the governments who keep screwing us over.
And when we refuse to help out neighbour countries when they are suffering, or they refuse to help us when iraq strike back whatever, have fun in the hostile situations it will cause.
One of the biggest problems is a lack of enforcement of EU Law. There is a Directive which requires immigrants to actively take steps to procure employment but nobody seems to pay heed to it. That is the fault of the British authorities who, rather than seeking to stamp such ignorance out, actively encourage it and also violate anti-discrimination laws. They make sure to get Poles directly into positions ahead of locals and it is these cretins that should be targetted, not the Poles.
I have yet to meet any brits in the north of the uk with an issue with the poles living here
We havnt met then......and you obviously havent met a whole heap of people in the North,sheesh,it was fun in the first few weeks in 04 to spot Poles and hear Polish in the local large town,less fun a few weeks later when even my small village was inundated with Jaceks and Zosias.....driving down wages to early 90s levels and sucking up the sparse jobs that had only just been created after the tories last stab at decimating anywhere further north than watford gap.....
I live in an area where there were always Poles,or rather the descendents of wartime Poles,oddly enough they were the most vocal about the "class" of young Poles they found themselves surounded by and lumped in with.
To be clear over the above post,its a numbers issue,not an individuals or "race" thing,as any right thinking person will realise :)
I live in an area where there were always Poles,or rather the descendents of wartime Poles,oddly enough they were the most vocal about the "class" of young Poles they found themselves surounded by and lumped in with.
Goes for London also. The ww2 Poles were very educated, cultured and open, their children straight A pupils. I'd bet none of them were cash-in-hand types and taking a free ride off tax payers. They the ww2er's were invested in Britain for the long haul.
See i think this is my issue. In cumbria we didn't have a large influx of eu nationals, and my mother only lives in a tiny village there. Not that I was restricted to that village by any means, but the bigger towns near us didn't and still don't have anything like this.
In tyne and wear, more specifically south shields where I live now the biggest nationality is Indian due to the marine college I study at. Everyone is marine, and the biggest groups are the InCa or Indian Collaboration groups. There are massive indian communities, at least 50% off the population is Indian, a lot of them being merchant navy students. The issue I can understand is this: they all have part time, cash in hand jobs at the local curry shops. There is a lot of indian restaurants in south shields, we have the famous curry mile on ocean road, and it does prevent a lot of people getting jobs without the right qualifacations.
A lot of them now have 3rd gen british/indian children in the schools, my old estate was nicknamed little delhi, and it was very much so, it was hard to leave the house and not smell a curry.
Interesting fact: Indians think people in the UK smell of dairy products. The indian lads at the MC tell us this all the time.
They are also very very rude towards women. It gets very irritating. As uniform has to be standard for uk marine students, white shirt black tie, us girls decide that it looks much smarter for us to be in skirts and and appropriate shoes with tights. It is encouraged by the Capts because trousers always look scruffy. The comments we get from them are just unreal! We have 3 or 4 Indian Capts working at the college and they are constantly yelling at the INCA's over derogatory remarks made in Indian as we pass.
It can actually be quite nerving because they congregate outside the only ladies toilets we have access to, and they stand in groups of maybe 20 or so, and they're all leering when you try to get through etc.
HMRC need to raid Ocean rd. Those who don't pay taxes are begging and stealing of those who do. Those curry shops must be well staffed - one waiter for every customer, now that's service.
I am a polish and I get sick of this I have read all post's also watch the youtube snap's //// I am living around for 9 years in UK ...I seen the live around enought and I can tell there is everywhere so similar things criminals etc in all countries EU a part from high cultures live where they still believed deep in them God's uneducated yet ... I seen Polish tramp's here also English who ask my for money on the street however the english was the first because at the time when I land here here wasn't not many Poles in my area ...This is to all please stop puts it in the same basket....please go to Poland and see true not the short youtube movies " Made for purpose"..ther is the live ,funny,,play,night lives ,sea side,mountains ,landscapes and lakes, etc.
also like here crimlas and drunkers and junkes but but most of us not plus me ..thanks
Ps .ALL this live style came from US I belive........
Just recently moved to Poland to be with my retired parents. I'm British but we all lived in California for over 30 years. After having to register to live in Poland, I must say I am really ****** off. You tell the Polish authorities no one moving to UK has to register and they don't believe it. This registration crap in Poland must be a violation of EU rules somehow. I had to register twice, once in Bielsko Biala and then again in Zywiec. True it wasn't a big deal since I have an address here, but if Poles are going to UK and don't have to register, then why can't the same be true for Poland. And don't get me started on the BS I had to go through bringing two pallets of personal belongings from the US. The customs people are worse than the gestapo. One guy even told me I had to write a note saying I had no intention of ever leaving Poland. He backed down once I showed him I had already officially registered to stay in the country. If he had pushed the issue I would've just walked out. All that trouble for two pallets of my own personal things when people are bringing in containers of stuff from China and importing cars from the US. I still feel like reporting this to the EU somewhere. It can't be legal.
After having to register to live in Poland, I must say I am really ****** off.
Why? It's a normal practice within the Schengen zone to register your address. Germany, France, Spain and many others all have exactly the same system.
You tell the Polish authorities no one moving to UK has to register and they don't believe it.
I'm not surprised they don't believe it, considering that most of the EU has a formal registration process.
This registration crap in Poland must be a violation of EU rules somehow.
Why? It's a perfectly normal process in much of Europe.
And don't get me started on the BS I had to go through bringing two pallets of personal belongings from the US.
I imagine it would be equally painful in the US for a Polish person to import his goods there.
I still feel like reporting this to the EU somewhere.
Perhaps some experience in the EU would be better rather than ranting on an internet forum.
LOL indeed. First- people would have to vote for UK leaving UE. Sure, more Daily Mail and Sun articles about "evil EU" and it may happen. or may not.
Beside- even if there would be a "yes" vote, it will take years to actually leave EU. It's not a matter of weeks.
Thirdly- even if aforementioned conditions will be met- nobody will be able to (legally) sent legal immigrants to their countries of origin.
And on the end: yes, it would be an awesome thing. maybe all those bloody British oaps would be sent back home from Spain. I'm sure UK will be able to accommodate them ;)
