Are the working class in the UK now shunned in the 'new' Poland?

Has anyone else noticed that most of the Poles go 'on and on' about what wonderful qualifications they all have?
They either have top degrees (but are working in a menial job, through necessity), or their families (sons, and daughters), or friends.....are all super qualified!

Are there no ordinary working people left in Poland?
If there are, does anybody mix with these people.....perhaps the working class are now becoming the new social outcasts of Poland, to be 'hidden' and 'ignored', not fitting of the EU club?

Polish families must be very disappointed in their own children if they work in a shop, or as 'bin' men, bus drivers, 'manual' labourers, or any other 'perceived' low esteem jobs?

Poles never talk about ordinary working people, is it something to be ashamed of in the 'new' Poland??

"new poland"???
never heard anything about "new poland"...

would you be proud if you're kid finished college and went onto an esteemed in pickin up people's rubbish, i think not squire

Yes, they do harp on about them. Even more than I do ;) ;) I learned to let go as they are just bits of paper.

They work some terrible jobs in the UK. Money is their sole motivator. Oh, how disappointed our great Lord Jesus would be ;) ;)

I know what he means about the 'new' Poland. Very well, actually. He is referring to the west of Poland becoming much richer and the east ever poorer. JK would redress that balance but Kommie will only exacerbate it. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

Frankly, it's all a nonsense and you are where you put yourself.

It's a dog eat dog world. If you can't live within your means then do something about it.

In Poland its so f0cked up, you probably need a degree for these jobs, even a Masters.

I would say there is an element of shunning but the Poles can be a tight-knit nation. VERY when they want to be.

All parents want their children to succeed. Sending a kid to a trade school it's hardly anything to brag about. Then, people complain when a plumber or heating/airconditioning guy requests $100-$150 just to stop by and see what the problem is. Not everybody can be highly educated, blue collar skills are in demand and the people can make a pretty good buck. Sure, it sounds better when you say 'my son is an engineer' instead of my son is a plumber...

Well, it means that UK and US have plenty of highly educated 'immigrant' workers... :)

So what is the name of the country in which people brag about their children being pumbers and bin men/women?

The only way JK could 'redress' the imbalance would be to impoverish the west. He knows (and cares) nothing about the creation and maintenance of wealth.

Kommie has his faults, but his ultimate goal seems to be to raise all the boats, while the Duck wants to drain the harbor.

The short answer is: no
The medium is: depends by whom
And simple question for you is: do you speak Polish?
If you don't speak Polish and if your opinion is based on talks in English with random Poles, then your chances to have reasonably fluent conversation with true "working class" representant of Polish society are quite slim... Ergo, your statistical base is flawed from the start and consequently your conclusions are wrong.

both are do dupy.

I'm sure they'll realize that they need a qualified working class to get things done. (We can't all be lawyers and doctors, sorry!)

:)

Good answer, and quite correct.
After all, many so called 'Higher' qualifications are just 'bits of useless' paper, that do not reflect any practical knowledge in a real work enviroment.

As the rest of the EU is now realising, it is probably 'hands on ' workers that are required for the future.
But why do the Polish still persist with this attitude' that qualifications are still a 'god, and that others workers are to perhaps be ignored, or 'shunned'?

Mafketis, what nonsense! He doesn't give a jot about the working class in Poland. The guy is riding on a wave of snobbery and doesn't see the broader picture at all.

This is a discussion, no conclusions have been made.
People have the right to voice opinions freely, at least they have in the past throughout most countries of Europe.
I'm afraid your comments are just a typical example, of what is being considered about the Polish race in this post.
Why take everthing so seriously, it's almost as if nobody can criticise or discuss Poland?

In Poland you wont find such attitude among employers.


too many ppl criticise poland here. it makes some ppl a lil bit defensive.

Some employers do take that line, zetigrek. Many Poles can back me up on this.

What's wrong with constructive criticism?

That's good to hear, wouldn't like to think the whole of Poland, revolves around 'perceived' educational snobbery only! We always thought the Poles were a hardworking, practical race in the past.

Why then, are some (not all!) Polish migrants so obsessed with telling everyone within 'earshot' how well qualified they (and their families) are? At the same time, many are doing some minimum wage job, in a foreign country, and often living in appalling conditions.

Where is their loyalty to Poland? Surely it is better to use your qualifications in your own country at a 'lesser' wage?


Thanks for the reply.
The point is not about bragging.
All people have differing abilities, and should be valued as such.
It doesn't really matter what job you do, as long as you contribute to the society you live in. In many countries the jobs as mentioned above are highly desirable, and valued. Quite rightly so! A lot of people have no employment!

Polish people were always well respected for their strong family ties in the past.
Perhaps the migration of people throughout Europe, is weakening the traditional family structure in Poland.
There must be a huge amount of pressure in Poland today, on youngsters to be high educational achievers? But they can't all be at the top.

It is nothing to be ashamed of if your children work in ordinary jobs, it will likely be the tradesmen and workers of tomorrow, that will be highly regarded in any future Europe!

If it survives!

because polish wages are small, and you earn much more money cleaning toilets in uk?

In Poland we say: żadna praca nie hańbi

Why are monaning so much about it? You have decent job so why the hell you are b1tching around about some strangers??


No, its not better. Its better to earn and save some money and maybe come back to Poland then.

Rhetorical question or/and answer for thesis made in question is usually considered equal to conclusion... Well, for sure you advanced a thesis ;-)


Well, my post was maybe short and cold, but certainly it wasn't offensive, so you don't need to be either... I merely pointed to posible incoherence in your generalisation, there is no need to taking it personally... I was rather hoping you will answer my question instead but I kind of lost my interest now... Anyway, have fun. EOT

What is minimum wage in Poland? 1200 Zloty? What is the minimum in the UK? Remember it's a 4:1 ratio Zloty/Pound. Probably at the minimum a Pole can make 4 times the money in the UK.

They can make four times as much in Holland aswell, but we obviously can't. We can make four times as less in other countries. (And that's why we don't.) The result? A lot of jobless and single guys. Not having any families. Not working. Not earning. Not spending. Not participating. Not contributing. I don't think I have to tell anyone what will become of these guys, and nobody can honestly tell me that it's all their own fault.

Most of the Polish people who come here for work, aren't planning to settle down here. They're just here to make more money than they could back home, and once they have it, they'll return to their homes and families, which basically means they're not spending, participating or contributing anything here either. It might be cheaper for employers, but it actually costs our society in the long run, including these employers. I guess that's what happens when you have this every man for himself attitude?

Just look at Ireland, they were in the same kind of situation about 15 years ago, and I remember working with Irish workers everywhere, which have been replaced by the Polish in the last few years. (I think the same will happen to Poland once the Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgarians and Romanians take their place as a workforce abroad.) Infact, I think this will happen to most European countries, and even to all of the countries which obviously still seem to think they will actually benefit from cheap and temporary labour.

indexmundi.com/ireland/unemployment_rate.html

I guess that's what happens when the work abroad stops. I don't think countries should stimulate their people to work abroad in such huge numbers. They should invest in their younger generations, instead of tearing down their own societies. (But I guess that's the plan?)

I'm not a nationalist, I'm not using foreign workers as a scapegoat for all my problems and I'm not a xenophobe either. Just making a few observations, and trying to make some sense out of this. So thank you for reading. (You don't have to agree.)

:)

No, I agree with you wholeheartedly. The Mexican illegal immigrants (in the States) are allowed in for one reason only, and that's to lower wages so that the business owners can make more money. Same for outsourcing manufacturing jobs to China and service jobs to India. Let's be honest it's slave labor. The native cannot compete.

Karl Marx said that capitalism is cannibalistic, they eat their own. Indeed they do.

As for you, are you an unemployed electrician? If I were you I'd open my own business. In fact I have been you and I did open my own business, I'm not getting rich but I am staying busy.

Yeah, certain systems are exclusionist. Only the private middle class can compete sometimes. Still, provided there is job creation for the working class, who really cares how they are perceived?

cbs.nl/nl-NL/menu/cijfers/default.htm - Unemployment Rate Holland.

Okay, maybe you can't understand Dutch, but here are the official figures, and I've translated the first three for you.

Number of citizens: 16592206 March 2010.
Economical growth: 0,6% 1st quarter of 2010.
Unemployed people: 5,5% May 2010.

Which means we have about 912571 unemployed people. (Mostly young people.)


Which will actually cost them money in the long run.

;)


No, indeed we can't, and nobody can tell us that this is our own fault either, or even that we're supposedly too lazy to work. The fact that a lot of young people are lacking qualifications and in some cases can't afford an education can also be explained if you take a good look at the lack of investment and interest.


It's even worse, they're officially eating themselves! They just don't know it yet, but it's pretty obvious what will come of this if you look at the global trends. I'm willing to predict a loss of jobs in the upper echelons aswell, but ofcourse I can't give you the exact dates or anything. It's a ticking timebomb really.


Yes I am. I've done all types of construction work though, and I've also spent a few years and a few months in agriculture in total. (Inbetween jobs.)


I've been thinking about that, but I'm obviously not the only one who's been thinking about that. I will need extra qualifications aswell, aswell as extra safety licenses and I will need a degree in accountancy aswell, otherwise I'll have to let an accountant run my business, which isn't exactly a great idea. It's pretty unfair when you see foreign electricians who don't have to meet all of the aforementioned requirements though!


It's a small country here, so we don't have too much opportunities, especially not when you keep in mind that electricians from abroad manage to be two times cheaper than us because they don't live here. (They don't have to pay these ridiculous rents!) If I would live in America right now, I'm sure I would've done the same. I think it would've been slightly easier for me aswell, since living in America is actually much cheaper than it is in Holland.

I'm studying and obtaining certificates gradually, which I can trade for a degree when I'm done, because I can't afford the whole study at once. So it's going to take me a little longer than someone who can afford it, but I'm getting there. Once I have that degree, it will open many doors for me, which only makes me more determined. (So I guess I'm off to the next temporary rinky-dinky job!)

:)

And pay out 4 times as much -average cost of a pint of lager in Poland circa. 6zl average cost of a pint in the UK circa. £3.50 - average cost of a 1 bed apartment 750 zl average cost in the UK circa. £500 - are you catching my drift? At minimum wage in the UK a Pole can just survive living with serveral other Poles in a small apartment - personally I dont consider that a life - so whilst its 4 times as much, it's all relative!

Minimum wage in the UK is set to increase to £5.93 later this year, even with this increase its not exactly going to afford you to have an even reasonable life, unless you work about 80 hours a week.

(I just got these averages off a guy in our Warsaw office, they are not something I plucked out of the air)


Not really, balancing the books isnt as hard as you might think - a basic booking keeping course would be adequate - then all you need is to see an accounant a couple of times a year - its not as expensive as you might think.

If you're ''lucky'' enough to actually get 80 hours a week that is.

;)

Exactly, agencies now have "zero" hour contracts and anything above that is a bonus! Most jobs paying minimum wage are in the service sector which means they are generally only part-time, if someone does two jobs, they then start getting in to the messy situation of paying higher rates of tax on what is considered a "second" job - you only get a tax allowance on one job - second jobs you are taxed on every penny you earn.

So tell how is it that I watch loads of tv series about young Brits being in depts because they cant just live without their exclusive clothes, exclusive bar and exlusive drinks... and still they are able to get out of great debts within 6-7 years if they just change their lifestyles. In Poland no one is afford to carry such reckless life so dont bs me about similar cost of life levels...

Every expat living in Poland says that its a myth that cost of life in Poland match the level of wages and none of imigrants who I know says that in UK the cost of life vs ages are higher or the same as in Poland. NO ONE! Of course now its not worthwhile to go to work in Britain thats why u dont have new imigrants any more (lack of jobs)