How might Britain`s withdrawal from EU affect Poles there and here?

You might be thinking of the BNP, pawian.

"They steal our jobs" is a common phrase thrown around Britain ever since we started the Industrial Revolution , when the Luddites smashed up weaving looms for depriving honest folk of honest jobs. And although it's been proven wrong countless times, ten generations have completely ignored the Lump of Labour fallacy so the idea isn't going to leave the voters' minds any time soon.

What does annoy me is the approach to funding. When the Eurozone needed 50bn to bail out the PIIGS countries, what was the proposal? Tax the banks. Of course, it was all the banks' fault from the beginning, so it's only right that they should pay.

What wasn't highlighted was which banks had lent the money. As can be seen on this chart:

2010/05/europe-debt-web.jpg

You can see who owes money to whom. Add up the totals, and you'll see that although Britain lent nearly $420bn, Germany exposed itself to $704bn and France an enormous $911bn - more than double that of Britain. In all, Germany and France are owed 75% of the total.

So when the proposal came to tax the banks, why was it done in a way that would mean 80% of the tax? It would be generated by the City of London in a so called "tobin" tax, which charges a fee per financial transaction. In that way, Britain would generate an incredible 40bn euros in tax a year... which would pass to France and Germany's coffers to pay off the PIIGS debts. This was the famous British Veto of October last year.

Is that the solution? Tax the Brits to fix the French economy? What about the other EU funding? What about CAP, the EU programme that subsidises farmers? What about the fact that CAP amounts to 20% of the EU budget, and 20% of CAP goes to France's 500,000 farmers. That's right - 4% of the entire EU budget goes to 0.1% of its population. 17% of CAP is shared among the 12 "new" EU states, even though Poland alone has four times as many farmers as France does. And yet every time the budget comes up for debate "Vee vill not diskuss CAP" say the French. "Non non non, no discussion".

That's why Britain wants out. In comparison to the leech that is France, the few hundred thousand Poles in the UK, who actually work for a living, are no bother at all.

Oh, I see. That is indeed unfair. But Germany and France are considered heavy weight players in EU. What about Britain? Do you think your country isn`t enough heavy to balance those two? If yea, why is it so?

PS. I know similar unfair fiscal regulations in Poland too - major cities like Warsaw and Krakow pay special tax for underdeveloped areas. It is called Robin Hood taxation here. :):):)

Actually do you know what are talking about?


Only if Robin Hood was Slovak and had a ciupaga instead of a bow :)

Zeti, I primarily use English in the forum.

But it takes more than simply using a language. It is also about the English culture. Can you understand what I mean?

Pawian, do not worry. This is but a rhetorical question. It will never materialise. The UK will NOT leave the EU.
Yes, there are idiots who buy into the media propaganda but it's just a few million chavs who can't see the big picture.

I'm more worried about what I would do if the UK were to leave the EU! Getting married to an EU citizen would certainly be high on my priority list, lol :)

I have an EU passport, whether it's affiliated to the UK or not is not important to me. But, I'm determined to keep it:) I'll swap it for a Pole's if they so wish...

Seriously, Poles are safe in the UK and I'm quite safe here.
Nothing's going to happen... :D

Well, as a matter of fact, I worry that the UK won`t leave the EU. The drainage of Polish workforce that Britain has perpetrated since 2006 is really scandalous. I hope Britain leaves the EU and Poles will have to stay in their country to develop it further, instead of going to and developing Britain. And Polish women wil bear kids in Poland, not Britain.


Good!!

But Poles would still emigrate to Germany and the US. The destination would change but nothing else. The UK isn't the only country in the world and so leaving the EU wouldn't have the effects that you so desire.

And as far as the re-population issue... I've already offered my services on this forum on at least one occasion... ;) The offer still stands ;)

You're probably right. Some Poles I know of are actively planning on going to work in Canada and Aus.

FWIW I think Camoron is just playing to the UKIP crowd to steal their voters for 2015. Personally, I think the UK should leave the EU, but I can't see it happening unless UKIP get power.

A very good post Rich. You should start a thread on the subject.


To make the start all that criminally incompetent bunch of intertwined cliques shoudl be eradicated.

While it's true that the most visible Poles in Britain are the tradesmen, construction workers and those in the hospitality industry, these are probably the workers that Poland can afford to lose, at least temporarily. A bigger problem I think is the 'free rider' problem and global professional drag. British doctors and nurses are queueing up to leave for the US, where they can earn many times their British salary and enjoy exceptional standards of living. A cousin of mine who is in her first year of medical school here told me over Christmas that she's leaving for the US as soon as she's finished her clinical training. In their place come Polish doctors and nurses, who can earn many times their Polish salary ...

Repeat this across the professional categories and the net effect is that the poorest nations are bearing the cost of education and training whilst the richest are enjoying the benefits. And who takes the place in Poland of the skilled Polish doctors and dentists who leave to work in the UK or Germany? Ukrainians? Turks?

Whatever new relationship the UK seeks with the EU, I'm pretty sure it will include free movement of labour. I think many of our public services would collapse without it.

The Brits are Europe, they don't need anyone's permissions, especially not from your filthy poodles.

It's basically common sense vs. 4th Reich and pinks are on the right side, I wonder If you federalists will turn violent, just like you did last time in 39.

I think you are all missing very important point. The proposal is to leave the European Union and Join Norway/Switzerland/Iceland in the EEA.

In the EEA
- The UK would not be allowed to bar EU/EEA immigrants. The Poles etc. would NOT have to go home.
- The UK would have to pay a membership fee, determined by the EU on a take-it-or-leave-it basis. About £2billion is the estimate based on Norway's fee (which mainly goes to Poland)

- All laws the EU produces except agriculture and fisheries will be automatically accepted. No veto or influence. Hello Tobin Tax???

Seems the tories think they can leave the EU and still be part of the common market... any country could veto that.

Bonkers the lot of them. Here we are entering the third recession and they are obsessed about cutting free trade to where the Uk exports 200billion a year

I must be reading this wrong then, because it says it's just GBP124m annually
fullfact.org/factchecks/uk_trade_with_the_eurozone-3106

Please take a look at let me know what they're saying as it seems very low.

it say 124 713 million pounds which means almost 125 billion - it's that simple

As it says figures are in millions just above that table, I read it as 124 million, 713 thousand :D

Just found this website, it perhaps debunks some of the myths about why the UK should not leave the EU
betteroffout.net/the-case/10-eu-myths-about-withdrawl

They would just go to other EU countries....

How would it effect Britain?

Massive reduction in our Welfare Bill
Huge increase in Social Housing
Crime Reduction
All those grotty dirty "polski skleps" that fail our hygiene regulations would go out of business

I wonder if the British know that Poles can work in Norway too?

funny how we weren't allowed to even discuss immigration when it was from outside Europe, but now elements over here are whipping up a frenzy when its immigration from Eastern Europe!

I want Britain to Leave the EU for economic reasons since its not what the electorate in 1975 thought they were voting for
, but i really hope Poles stay here as they're a tremendous asset, apart from the fact that theres the obvious historical debt to them

several of our more depressing towns have been revitalised

This article from 2011 suggests there are 1 million Poles in the UK. There were officially 75000 in 2003 and over 500,000 by 2008, estimates were then put at 700,000 by PolishLondoner in 2010.

guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/25/polish-migrants-britain-jobs

I would be very surprised if the UK asked Poles to leave if the UK left the EU.

Sadly, I don't think the UK will leave the EU -- it's just political noise to negotiate a better deal, most probably. I think the Brits signed up to a common market when they voted yes in the 70s, and what they now have is a strong element of government from continental Europe which is not what was voted for. If there's a genuine referendum and Britons vote to remain in the EU then fair enough. Otherwise, the UK should leave. I imagine that the vote will be for the UK to stay in, however, which I'd find disappointing.

something i don't understand is this supposed survey thats being touted in the media in the UK saying that in november a majority wanted to leave the EU and now its only 40% who want out!

it makes no sense to me, of my small circle of friends only a very few want to stay in, and what has changed since November?

The vote in the papers had three results; Yes, No and Don't Know. Of those three, Yes had 40%. But if you remove the Don't Knows because, well, they don't know and therefore don't count, then of the remainder, 53% voted Yes, We Want Out.

It's the usual trick of massaging the numbers to get the story you want.

Sure, polski skleps are the worst problem of Britan, not the fact that Sharia law is already implemented in UK.

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sBpHinJf6Nw
youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Jv6wvRge-6Q

Well, they deserve to be overrun by the muslims they brought in to replace their aborted children, I'd say.

Couldn't they just put a little exception in their multiculturalism to ''Muslims''?

Some of them are already calling certain parts of UK as ''their territories'', and some of UK-muslims have threatened to destroy england, and to and to turn Buckingham palace into a mosque. Back in their Mordor, they are airing their hate speeches 24/7, and little children are already dreaming to become suicide-bombers to get rid of America, Europe etc.

When is the world going to understand their borders needs to be closed right away? You can't change them, so let them be contained.

Modernism is insanity. In France over 10% of the population is muslim and there are several neighborhood in Paris where even the police doesn't dare enter. Do you think this kind of things serves as a wakeup call? It doesn't.

Sharia courts have ruled the Muslim dominated neighborhoods of Germany for a long time:

Sorry, German. Note that the linked newspaper is German equivalent of the New York Times (i.e. the major, establishment left-liberal rag). Even they cannot fully ignore the "smashing success" of Muslim immigration anymore.

Western Europe is dead.

Centuries of struggle with fire and faith to keep the muslim hordes at bay and now the modernized, effeminate and faithless eurofags open the gates and grease their butts.

Are Poles the main unspoken reason why British want out?

I say! Steady on, old chap, you'll frighten the horses!

i hope not and i don't think so, immigration in general though yes. european courts overriding government decisions ( i know only some of those court decisions are EU related). fears about regulation on our banking sector, the cost of 2 EU parliments.

concerns over the Euro arrest warrant, France misusing the CAP and blocking reform, some parts of single market still not fully in place 20 years after 1992,

some countries not implementing directives which we have to, paying for Catherine Ashton to fly around the world being crap ;-)
Frustration with eurozone countries for "dragging the rest of us down with their doomed experiment"
lack of obvious benefits to population apart from those who live near the channel tunnel.
refusal of any major British politician to seriously make the case for Europe.
silly things regulated by Brussels ie: we have to change our clocks at the same time as France which means we have more dark days in the "shoulder months" than we need to have

i won't deny that some people who want to leave are confusing/conflating the ECHR with the ECJ

@richfilth: aaah! that explains it, thanks

Hi!
Please don't talk about what you don't know!

Re France, 1. ethnic and religious statistics are forbidden so how the hell can you say "over 10% are muslim"? and 2. most people of Arabic descent living in France are either not practising or even atheists (the main "religion" in France is "non" religion, all faiths combined) so coming up with over 10% of muslims in France is pure non sense and false.

This is an absolutely absurd comment. There is nothing to stop the UK trading with Europe after they leave. What leaving will do is open up the rest of the world for Britain to trade freely without restrictions from little bureaucrats in Brussels concerned only with keeping their income intact. What a dreadfully ignorant comment.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. The Poles take out far more out of this country than what they put into it. They disguise this fact with bright little smiles and appearing personable upon meetings with them but below the surface, they know exactly what they are doing. They care little about this country or the fact that they know they are not well liked. Teams of Poles walking up and down city and town centres soon has little old ladies huffing and puffing. Do not forget the incident when Gordon Brown lost his job. A little lady, sick to the back teeth of hundreds of Poles in her neighborhood asked him 'why there were so many of them here'? He walked of, left his microphone on, called her a bigot and that was that as far as his career was concerned.

I dont think they are, a lot of the fear mongering lately has revolved around the Romanians, Bulgarians, and the gypsys in those countries possible migration to the UK. This article says 30,000 to 70,000 per year for the next 5 years with the gypsy's being a "wild card". The Poles are already there.

economist/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/01/eu-and-immigration

The 2 are not necessarily linked. Switzerland is not in the EU but still EU nationals have the right to come and work in the country with minimal formalities (except Romanians and Bulgarians)