Just visited Poland - here is my random rant

I doubt it, as those pensioners who would need it usually also have poor relatives who would be unable to help.


So what? How does low-rent housing translate to food, clothing, medicine? My father worked extremely hard all his life, the only property he has is a flat in Warsaw, and he still has to work today because otherwise he would pretty much starve. Thankfully, he is a specialist in a very obscure, frivolous area of research and so his expertise is still sought by some.


That's exactly why I said you would need to rewrite the Labour Code. It's a typically communist piece of legislation which aims to protect everyone but the employer (as the employer used to be the State back then).


IMHO, they don't really. The overwhelming taxation and restrictions being put in place have nothing whatsoever to do with what people can remember of PRL. There was no visible taxation back then, for example. AFAIK, people are well miffed about stuff like the new garbage removal legislation, the expanding powers of the revenue offices, the growing bureaucracy...


You don't need universities for most vocational education. On the other hand, the economy does not "need" teachers, artists, linguists, historians, geographers, anthropologists, biologists... I could go on. But society does. Personally, I am against tuition fees in state universities. They are funded by my grandparents', parents', and my own taxes (yes, I did pay a fair bit of tax in Poland).


And why not? Somebody found it fascinating and specialised in it, and others must have found it equally interesting. The human mind is a wondrous thing. Education is about much more than finding a good job.


What is there to explain? There are specific requirements in place to become a sworn translator. I hear tell that these requirements are to be reduced soon - with higher education becoming unnecessary. Then you need to pass an exam. That's all. If linguists are not interested, this means that being a sworn translator is probably not worth the effort. I can't really say, as I left PL a few years ago. But the facts seem to point to this conclusion. I've been one now for ages, so it seems normal to me, but obviously if I were entering the profession today I might see things differently.

Your conclusion:


To what I wrote:


...doesn't add up to me -please explain what you mean.

There is no year zero, they lived and worked in that world. The reset button is not pressed every time society changes otherwise you would have no continuity of ownership of anything.

Tuition fees are a way to limit access to education and stop mobility, it's a kind of neo Stalinist central planning


Exactly

Actually the problem is a bit more complex than that. Before 2001 (or thereabouts), all one had to do to become a sworn translator was to graduate from an appropriate faculty and then go add one's name to the list. That meant that a fair few sworn translators were simply rubbish. So a new exam was introduced. The exam is very very difficult. Too difficult. I know people who can pass as native speakers of English and are excellent at translating who have failed the exam. So now there is a shortage of translators who have been sworn under the new system but a lot of people don't want translators who were sworn under the old system. So the requirements are to be dropped (slightly).

Hold your horses! It was easier than now, but not as easy as you make it out to be. You had to have the right education, be over 25, be a Polish citizen, have a clean record, and be able to supply several letters of reference from trustworthy clients, i.e., prove that you are already working as a translator and that you are not rubbish.


A lot of sworn translators frankly are rubbish, but IMO not because it was so easy to become one, but because the majority of sworn translators only ever did this job on the side (while working as teachers, editors, university lecturers etc). You cannot become a professional in something if you only dabble in it several times a week / month. The underlying reasons were the fixed, state-imposed translation rates (never very high), and the fact that Polish people did not have that many foreign documents to translate while businesses with robust international connections were also few and far between. The rates are not fixed any longer and Poland enjoys a very vigorous exchange with other countries, so I would have thought that most sworn translators today were thriving. But if you spent your whole life doing next to nothing in this area, you don't feel like changing things in your middle age, do you? ;-)

A VERY HONEST AND EXCELLENT REVIEW OF THE COUNTRY!

I am in Poland since 1 and half years and i am agree with your opinion.

Perhaps, but then they could also look at what they have. If someone was truly destitute with no family that could take care of them, then the State could consider helping them if they were above the age of retirement.

If someone managed to buy a flat for peanuts in a good location - then they could always sell it and move to a cheaper location. I have absolutely no social conscience in this respect - if you have assets, then you should use those assets to live.


Do you think people would agree? Solidarity would almost certainly call a general strike, many others would cry and whine (especially those planning a baby who know exactly how much they can abuse the Labour Code) and so on...


Those complaining about it are the same ones who would dump their rubbish in the forests anyway. The new system completely removes the need to dump trash - which is a good thing, right?

Does society really need to have 125 graduates of history every year from Adam Mickiewicz in Poznan alone - graduates who have little hope? Multiply this by hundreds of people in hundreds of courses across the land, and you soon see why money should be pulled out of universities and invested in technical education instead...

But when education (as a whole) is lacking in money, does it make sense to fund someone to do something just because they find it interesting? If they find it interesting, they can pay from their own pocket. It would certainly make far more sense to spend money on paying great school teachers more than in funding random professors who don't live in the real world, wouldn't it?


There was year zero for many people, especially those who were unfortunate enough to end up in the 20-50 generation that's now getting robbed blind in Poland...


That's an interesting comparison.

However, I'd argue that in the specific Polish example, someone studying pedagogics isn't going to move particularly far in terms of mobility regardless.

You're talking about people who have had hefty ZUS contributions taken off their pay every month, right? "Consider" helping them?


To use my father's example - he did not buy the flat for peanuts. It still cost him all his savings plus a loan. So he spent all this money on a flat he needs to sell just when he could start enjoying his well-earned retirement, and move to somewhere cheap where he could not possibly earn the extra money he does need to earn to get by on his pension (and - in your opinion - he shouldn't even have this pension in the first place). I think euthanasia for everyone over 70 would be cheaper :-/


I am beginning to suspect that you have no social conscience at all.


They're not being employed anyway as things stand now.


Really? I thought people complained because there used to be a choice between various garbage collectors and you could choose one who fit your requirements and financial means. Now there is no choice at all and everyone has to pay through the nose for a service that was sorted already.


Really? Why do you think that the one chosen garbage disposal business won't dump trash in the neighbouring gmina for example to cut costs?


You're one step away from a special someone who thought the Poles should only be taught the rudiments of reading, writing, and arithmetic.


I belong to that generation and I don't feel there was any year zero.


Even if they study pedagogy and then cannot find employment in their field of study, they can always move away / change their career path, but whatever they learnt will stay with them. Studying is primarily an intellectual hunger, only afterwards should it serve any demands of the job market. I specialised in Middle English literature, which did not in any way prevent me from working as a translator, with my first experiences being in agriculture and farm accounting. People are not pre-programmed robots for Chrissakes.

Frankly I can vouch for that fact. In a recent hearing (last month) in Poznan I even had to translate "shop" to the translator and every sentence in English had to be repeated several times and then corrected. He was useless and not only useless but 35 minutes late which meant we ran out of time and an additional hearing is now required. Irritating and expensive.

**** up and brewery spring to mind.

Just out of idle curiosity - was he old or young?

Early 40's at a guess. Maybe late 30's. Definitely dressed far younger than his years.

He was rather concerned about the potential 10,000 zlt fine for screwing up the hearing.

So it would be hard to say whether he had become a sworn translator via the old system or the new one then.


Well, I guess I would be too ;-)

So why doesn't England provide free education like Scotland does ? Free university education, free personal care for the elderly and free NHS prescriptions simply reflect the spending priorities of the Scottish government.


LOL.
Do you honestly expect people outside of the U.K. to believe that Scotland, the EUs largest oil and gas producer, would not survive if it wasn't attached to a country with £900 billion

debt !!!

The question is, would the U.K. survive without Scotland

A much larger population for one.


Bread and circuses.


It isn't an issue, since there won't be any change in your lifetime or mine.

If Scotland goes, the UK will have to radically reform how it exists politically. Even with a no vote next year, the UK will have to adopt a genuine federal structure within 20-30 years - we're already well on the path with devolution, and even England is showing that politically, she wants to adopt a different path than the rest of the UK. The education reforms are one example - England is walking a completely different path to the rest of the UK on that one.

This is what we should have done long ago - and taken the wind out of the nationalists' sails.


That's a bit like saying that the Palace of Westminster is walking a different path to some of the tiles on its roof.

So a financially secure England cannot afford to give its young free education ? But a small country like Scotland can?Doesn't that argument support the Nationalists stance ?


This is comparable to


?


....and there will never be a majority SNP government in Scotland.....never be a referendum on Independence..........

I wouldn't see a federal Europe as a threat to an Independent Scotland. I believe the two would be compatible.

You ignore the numbers issue. And no - it doesn't support Salmond's cynical electioneering


Both are a very long way off.

ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/category/scotland

[quote=Magdalena]If someone managed to buy a flat for peanuts in a good location - then they could always sell it and move to a cheaper location./quote]

There is now this reverse mortgage. With it your father can still enjoy his flat and live from it. He doesn't have to be poor. Person who owns flat in Warsaw is not poor by any standard in Poland. As you wrote he has POSSIBILITY to sell his flat and live from the money until the end in some cheap village or town without the need to work. Does it sound like poverty for you?

All of which were easy to achieve or obtain. The result was still that the level of translation was usually lamentable. I have two acquaintances who are sworn translators (old system). One of them has lower-intermediate English. They sometimes pay me to check documents they have 'translated', and I find myself shaking my head in dismay.

The new (not so new, now) system was long overdue. Yes, it's a little on the tough side, but that's better than it being a virtually automatic right for anyone with an Mgr in English Philology to get their brass stamp.

Translation standards have risen in the last decade, and that's largely down to more rigorous criteria for ST status.

With the bags [not sure if somebody mentioned if but I did not go through all 5 pages, since the original post was long enough to read], Lidl charges for bags as well. I think it is to do with getting people not to buy as many plastic bags, or buy one of the more expensive ones that they do, that is big and made of much sturdier material, so you can keep re-using it [since plastic bags are meant to be bad for the environment].

Tell me about it...


This is one of the things that annoys me the most...


I have NEVER experienced such a difference in weather conditions in so short a space of time...


Agreed(: I hope they will maintain them

Thx for the post(:

Ahusain

I would say the quality of cheap furniture is not good, like everywhere in the world. There just happen to be less rich people than in other countries. I don't think poland is the 4th biggest furniture exporter in the world if the quality was so bad.

Necessity is the mother of invention. In order to survive, people are forced to become creative, think outside the box, provide superior service/products in order to beat out their competition and ... survive. So yes, recessions do lead to developments, because you are forced to develop improvements in order to survive.


You have to pay for plastic bags in many Western countries as well. Do you know how horrible plastic bags are for the environment? Horrible. Some say it takes 500 years for a plastic bag to decompose, but the truth is, the plastic decomposes into tiny pieces fairly quickly, and THESE stick around for a long, long time. They also emit many hazardous toxins and chemicals - into our food and water supply! Consumers end up with hundreds of single-use plastic bags and nothing to do with them. Do you know how many freaking plastic bags I had before they made you pay for them or bring your own? TONS. I was drowning in plastic bags!!! I'd even ask them to stop double-bagging my groceries and to put more in each bag. Yes, it's annoying when you forget to bring your bag, but you know... not having polyethylene terephthalate in my food and water kind of makes up for it. Making you pay a very, very small fee is a great idea, along with promoting use of durable grocery bags.

I actually find this quite insulting. So you label a whole country 'uncivilized' because you had to pay a couple of cents for a plastic carrier bag? Newsflash, you also pay for them in London. That's in the UK btw. As a matter of fact all major EU capitals have been actively discouraging the use of disposable plastic bags. This has been going on for years now.

Personally I keep a couple of reusable grocery bags from Tescos in my car's boot and take them whenever I go shopping. Easy peasy. Been doing this for almost 5 years now. How's that for (un)civilized?

wow, i would LOVE to know which "Western" country you come from. i've been living in Warsaw for a year, i come from one of the most "Western" countries in the world, and there are more similarities between Poland and my very large "Western" country than differences. living in Warsaw has been a transition for me, but you're comments are completely out of line.

5. Anti-radars on the roads... pathetic disaster. Imagine 2 radars, one cop, and one 'straz miejska' officer all trying to catch you speeding on a 5km road! Who agreed to install these radars in the first place? I thought Poles like freedom, but apparently this is the history. It seems half of the power of Polish police and 'city cops' are directed at trying to fine drivers over speeding. Again, a big turn off for potential travelers.

WHERE ARE THERE NOT RADARS ON ROADS? DO YOU DRIVE REGULARLY?

7. I have to pay for a plastic bag in a store!?

OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVEN'T TRAVELLED MUCH IN EUROPE. BESIDES, I THINK THIS IS A FABULOUS IDEA, BOTH FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND FOR STORES TO KEEP DOWN THEIR COSTS. IS IT REALLY THAT MUCH OF AN INCONVENIENCE FOR YOU TO A) CARRY A TINY WRAP-UP NYLON BAG WITH YOU, OR B) PAY A TINY AMOUNT TO KEEP PRICES DOWN FRO EVERYONE?

8. I was on an airport in Warsaw waiting for a plane. I went to an airport store and wanted to buy a newspaper. The clerk wanted to see my... airline ticket or else she would not sell me the paper.

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU FLEW INTO ANY AIRPORT? THIS IS STANDARD PROCEDURE THESE DAYS.

12. The famous Polish beaurocracy.. still thrives. I was trying to open a bank account in Poland. I did without much trouble, but then I wanted to add my relative to the account. I could not do it because I forgot my 'dowod osobisty' and only had my drivers license. What's wrong with my drivers license (which features my name, picture, and the same address anyway)?

HMMM... NOW I'M REALLY CURIOUS AS TO YOUR TRUE "WESTERN" HOME COUNTRY. WHERE IS THERE NOT BEAUROCRACY?

13. Poles have been duped by their politicians (well, that affects most of the countries) and now business owners take advantage of the failed policies. For example, it's very common for a Pole to work on a contract basis (and the contract is being renewed every... WEEK). That way the employer saves money and the employee isn't really an employee but a contractor without legal rights to many things. And most people seem to be fine with that. They don't know they are being screwed twice (and once from behind?)

EVER HEARD OF WAL-MART, MCDONALDS...ETC? OUTSOURCING? THE TREND TOWARD TEMP WORK SO THAT BIZ OWNERS DONT HAVE TO PAY HEALTH INSURANCE? I WANT TO LIVE IN YOUR COUNTRY.

18. Polish weather.

NOW IM THINKING THIS POST IS A JOKE. CLIMATE CHANGE?

ok, there's no point in even continuing to respond to this. it has to be satire. my suggestion to you: stay home in your perfect, utopian "Western" country where nothing bad ever happens, there are no eyesores, the government is fair and just and works for their people, parking on the street is free and so are plastic bags, everyone smiles at everyone else and no one is stressed out and everyone sits around doing yoga instead of working hard to climb a corporate ladder, and where the extra toilet paper is free. reading this post, i understand that extra toilet paper must be an absolute requirement for you.

I'm not advocating anyone's opinion on this nutty forum, but I'll throw in a few things about that last post. I left out parts of quotes to keep this post under novel size and just quoted seriously?'s responses. My apologies if it's misleading for others:


i would love to know which one YOU come from, because the western country I come from is night and day compared to Poland.


uhmm.....where I'm from? police manually run laser on the roads sporadically (mostly on highways) but radar fixed on metal poles in different locations in a town.....no.


it does nothing for the environment because, as you said, it's a "tiny amount", meaning it doesn't deter anyone from paying it. a bill of 105.40 or 105.50 has no impact on the environment.


i can honestly say I've never been asked, ever, for my plane ticket when buying anything at an airport. nope.


Polish bureaucracy is notorious. any number of people on this forum can attest to that.


i have. they offer comprehensive medical insurance to all their full time employees.


i'm becoming quite suspect myself after reading this one. suspect of you.
anyone that thinks Poland has anything but lousy weather hasn't lived anywhere else.....excluding maybe countries with colder, rainier, sloppier, snowier weather.


you've had to pay for toilet paper?

Interesting. I've lived for years in the UK and in Switzerland and those two are most certainly not "night and day compared to Poland". Are you sure you aren't trying to compare Poland to a nation where people are so lazy that they can't even be bothered to get out of their cars to view their dead loved ones and so funeral homes have drive through viewing windows? That is most certainly night to Poland's day.


Actually it does have quite an effect, which is why it's law in so many places.


Looks like you either don't fly in the EU or don't buy things when you do fly (although they aren't asking for your ticket, they are asking for your boarding pass).


More rubbish from you.


You steal yours rather than buying it?

that was the case at any Polish, public convenience..... twenty years ago.

one was given five or six sheets before entering the stall. if you wanted more you often had to pay.

i must have struck a nerve. in any case, yeah, where i'm from.....yep, night and day.


bull$hit.


it's been about 2 1/2 years. i'll be in the EU next month, I'll let you know if anything's changed.