really i like Poland, i descovred it in the last EURO of football. before i thought that Poland is a poor country of east Europe but really i was suprised ...i found a developed country , a kind people and a very nice places...the station tv witch broadcasts the Euro 2012 on my country made a very nice work because she did not speak about only games but it made us know about a very nice country.
I agree mostly as far as the first part of your post. Although I was only in one medium-sized city umpteen years ago, I loved the Hansa-style architecture and the Old-World atmosphere of much of the Stare Miasto.
However, what pray do you mean by "..will become a Westernized nation."???? Poland is considered to be perhaps THE most Westernized of the Eastern European former Satelite nations from before the time of the former Soviet Union! If you mean "industrialized", there too, I beg you to disregard outmoded stereotypes about Poland.
I just wanted to say, I recently visited eastern europe and I thought Poland was the coolest place.
Probably because Poland isn't in Eastern Europe.
I think one day poland could become a westernized nation.
And what the hell westernized nation means? That every large city in co-called westernized country has to have at least one neighbourhood inhabited mainly by muslims and one by black people? Hopefully Poland will stay as it is.
I don't think Poland is much different from the countries like Italy, Spain or Greece (so ones which are definitely considered as western-European, belong to the EU for years) in terms of order in the streets, city planning etc. Sometimes it's even more civilised. If you want Poland to look like Germany or nordic countries... It would be no more the same Poland.
Castles are nothing specific for Poland. Maybe it was something new for you since you don't have castles in America...
I don't think Poland is much different from the countries like Italy, Spain or Greece
Southern Europe is a whole different world - the savoir-vivre, the culture in general, the climate ... everything. In my opinion, there's no way that you can compare these countries to Poland. I would rather compare Poland to the Czech Republic or Germany.
Yes, Poland is very much Central European. But because it's a former communist country, it's perceived as Eastern Europe in the sense of former Iron Curtain territory. And you can't deny that Poland still bears the scars and carries the legacy of those years.
And what the hell westernized nation means?
Wulkan don't be so cross with people. Try to be a little understanding. The girl is trying to say something nice and positive about Poland. She might be just a kid for all you know. If you want to know what she means by Westernised, then ask her but don't eat the head off her. Same goes for you Lyzko though you're not as grumpy as Wulkan. I understand your frustrations, my husband still suffers with this at times, the perception people have of Poland as some Godforsaken backwater and their amazement that there are supermarkets and that people have televisions and washing machines...........but at this stage it's up to Poland, as a free nation, to dispel that myth. You need a much higher profile in the old tourist industry for one thing.
I'm merely trying to set the record straight regarding Poland, that's all. Poland's plenty Westernized!! What more do you want? A Burger King on every corner???
You see one of the problems with terms like Westernised is that they mean different things to different people And what's the West anyway?? It's more a political and economic entity than anything to do with culture. The British Isles are nothing like Sweden or Norway but they're very much the West. Poland can enjoy all the benefits of being Westernised while still retaining her very special identity as a meeting of eastern (meaning Slavic) and western cultures. That's her great strength if she can only convert it to her advantage.
What more do you want? A Burger King on every corner???
Well I certainly don't! But I would like to see a better standard of living for people in general, larger living spaces instead of families with three children squashed into 40m square, decent pensions for the elderly, better health care and health education etc. But it takes time to achieve that and Poland has made great progress in 25 years. I'd also like to see proper food labelling so people can determine how much salt they're eating.
Yes, it's scary. The amount of salt in the average Polish diet is xxxxx times the recommended levels, so much processed meat, cheese and of course bread which many people don't realise has such a high salt content. Also a lot of working people eat convenience versions of things like pulpety, bigos etc and they're simply loaded with salt. We know plenty of younger Polish people who have no idea that salt is associated with high blood pressure or that you should limit your intake. They're not being taught that in secondary school and there is no public awareness of it generally. People are conscious of fat content but not salt. Still, I suppose it was like that in the 'West' twenty or thirty years ago, so in time Poland will cop on.
Not only too much salt but also too much sugar, also not enough iodine (= a lot of Poles have serious problems with thyroid gland, including very young kids), not enoug vitamins and minerals, very limited choice of vegetables and fruit, very little, if any at all, fish...
Most Poles eat garbage and their health and look can tell (past 45, they look very old).
Poland needs a government who will invest some money in a public health education program. I think that's the first step. Then the government needs to put the lean of food producers to reduce the fat and salt content and then they need to introduce food labelling. Poland is very strange because on the one hand people are obsessed with the most bizarre aspects of their health (what's this business of your wątroba, I mean honestly the amount of medication advertised for the liver??) and they are complete hypochondriacs yet at the same time they are very ignorant of the real health risks they face and that's the fault of the government.
@Atch; also a problem with ... money. Most Poles can only buy crap. I very rarely see people buying for instance eggplant... Most Poles have a very basic and limited diet not only because they don't know better but also (mostly?) because they cannot afford better.
Most Poles have a very basic and limited diet not only because they don't know better
Yes that's a fair point. But you can make very tasty, nutritious dishes with quite ordinary ingredients. They don't have to be expensive.
As to liver problems, it's because of the booze
Of course! Silly me. Thanks! Mind you, I remember an ad years ago on Polish tv where a woman is offered cake and says 'only a small slice, my liver etc' so I had the impression that they associate liver with digestive problems. There was a word used in vintage days in England 'liverish' used to describe someone a bit under the weather.
@Atch; also a problem with ... money. Most Poles can only buy crap. I very rarely see people buying for instance eggplant... Most Poles have a very basic and limited diet not only because they don't know better but also (mostly?) because they cannot afford better.
That's not quite true. A lot of the crap they buy is actually very expensive compared to cooking from scratch, especially when a lot of stuff is in season. If you look in Biedronka, they have a fairly big (for Poland) selection of ready meals - none of which are particularly cheap. Pizzas there are 8zl each - I could make the same pizza for 3-4zl. And so on...
Having said that, Poland should completely and totally ban the usage of kids to advertise products on TV, as well as totally banning any sort of "for children" products in shops. Tesco in particular is guilty of this.
@Atch: for sure, one can cook good things with limited amount of ingredients but probably more than what the normal Polish diet allows. Basically, Polish "cooking" is limited to 10 or at most 12 ingredients and as a result, recipes are most limited, repetitive and soon become boring. A few years ago, when very little food from the West, I really suffered (fortunately I love potatoes ;)). If more money available (in stores, now we can find great things), it would be better but also need to educate Poles.
As to "liver problems", that's true that on Polish tv channels there are tons of commercials with women who can't eat large slices of cakes because of their "liver" but more seriously, most Poles have trouble because they drink too much and this is so of course principally among men..
Besides too much salt, too much sugar, too much fat, don't forget the industrial craps such as Vegeta and consorts that Poles are crazy about.
It's weird but now I have started to believe that the North American diet may even be healthier than the Polish diet ;). If Poles look so old, it must have something to do too with the way of eating.
@Delph: of course, a lot of Poles now buy a lot of "Westernized" craps as such as frozen pizzas, chips and consorts, which are new in Poland, but I meant the typical Polish diet which is unhealthy and repetittive. In order to eat properly, we also need to eat a huge variety of things.
Because of a combination of many things (economics, climate, traditions..) Poles don't eat well. Of course, a few recipes are tasty but their number can be counted on the fingers of one hand and so is the number of ingredients. Not to mention too much salt, sugar, fat... Poles are on the whole unhealthy (just 1 example, a lot of them are sick the whole winter every winter) and I am sure the no.1 reason is poor food.
Have you noticed how much older do most Poles look when they reach for instance their 50's? Only the very rich look good. I'm sure bad food is the cause hereof.
Yes, husband and I were in the supermarket and looked at the salt content in Vegeta and he was speechless, it was horrendous. Then he picked up a bottle of Maggi which Poles ladle into their soup by the bucket load, he looked at the sodium level and simply said 'death in a bottle'. Bear in mind that he's Polish and grew up on this stuff. He didn't believe me about salt being bad for you, dismissed it as nonsense until I got a little book about blood pressure in Boots. I think it's produced by the British Medical Association. He has great respect for all those 'official' British bodies so when he read it there, he believed it and is now, in typical Polish fashion, borderline obsessed with his salt intake!
I have not seen Vegeta and sh##ts of the kind at home in years. There are a lot of commercials on Polish tv for this kind of craps and it looks like Poles use them in about everything.
Poles are on the whole unhealthy (just 1 example, a lot of them are sick the whole winter every winter)
They wear too many clothes outdoors, hats, scarves, gloves etc when they're really not necessary. Come to Ireland, shiver your way through the chill and damp of an Irish summer and you'll learn to treat hats and scarves with the contempt they deserve! Often when the temp is around 10 degrees you'll see them in arctic style hoods and fur trimmed acoutrements. Also many buildings are too warm with temps of 25 degrees, people don't open the windows. They seal themselves in and then wonder why they get colds all the time. And they don't get enough exercise. Tram or bus carries them door to door, elevators instead of stairs etc.
When I lived with my in-laws I had to stand guard over anything I cooked. If I didn't, I'd come back to find that salt - and plenty of it - had been added. Once I came home to find a chilli con carne of mine that was happily maturing had been thrown out, after being declared "Guantanamo". A little heat was a no-no, but stroke-inducing levels of salt are deemed fine.
@Atch: "lol"! We have already mentioned this in PF and probably reason why they are always sick. Now, it's not cold (I don't know what the temperature is but it's what it should be in Poland in October) and there are a lot of people already dressed like in the middle of the Siberia winter.
It's a great pity about the taste for salty food as it's an issue when eating at a restaurant or friend's house. I don't use salt at all in cooking but I don't object to having a meal now and again that's had salt added. However the amount used can make a meal so unappetising, all you can taste is the salt.
Yes, InPolska I'm in Warsaw right now. We arrived on 2 October to temps of around 20 degrees and were looked at strangely because we were wearing t-shirts and sandals. I've now graduated to a light weight velvet coat and a silk scarf but I'm still hatless and gloveless.
