Polish or British passport (child traveling to Poland)

Scotty, I traveled with my son to Poland couple of times and never had this problem. Same situation as yours, I'm Polish, my husband is British/ South African, our son now has 3 passports... Only problem we had was in South Africa, where we were told that the kid must travel in and out on SA passport. He went to Poland on British passport and no-one said anything. In fact if a child already has another passport they are not obliged to have a Polish one.

It's totally daft either way or do they have a nationality detection machine at the border :-)

It appears, through a process of deduction, you cannot actually be dual nationality in Poland.

Why would you want to cast this affliction on your child when they can make a reasoned choice themselves when they come of age? It's not a fashion accessory. Make your choice, stick with one, or suffer the consequences if the sh*t hits the fan. It's a chance you take but in my opinion not worth the gamble when your talking about children.

Wrong. You must only use a Polish passport/ID card to identify yourself should you be requested to do so. If you cross a Schengen border using a (for the sake of argument) Czech ID card, it doesn't matter - it only matters if you are requested to identify yourself and you use the foreign document.

It's quite fair really - you're a Polish citizen, and adults are obliged to have a Polish ID card when on the territory of the RP. Therefore - it's quite rational to expect them to identify themselves using a Polish ID card rather than a foreign document.


You can be, as there's no law against dual citizenship. The only issue is that you'll be treated as a Polish citizen if you are one - exactly the same as in most countries.


Since when has Polish citizenship been an affliction? It's certainly far more useful in certain areas to be Polish than British - the British are widely disliked, after all - whereas the Poles really don't have many enemies.


Why is it a gamble to have Polish citizenship?


The Straz Graniczna are no different to any others, they operate under the relevant laws. It's not a matter of "knowing better" or "imagining something" - it's a matter of applying the law to a decision.


A nice story, but still, a story. The Urzad Stanu Cywilnego deals with marriages and the paperwork - why would they ask for a declaration from anyone else when they're the ones who deal with it legally?

Whine whine whinge **** moan.....Doom gloom doom gloom. Do you have anything else to post about?

The kids aren't even yours for crying out loud!!!

You CANNOT automatically assume that because your partner has had some dealings with her ex that EVERYONE will.



You have those type of fears and genuinely think he is capable of that, then I daresay you shouldn't be having kids with him.


Nope!!!! Both need to sign and be present for the initial application.

As child abduction to and from Poland is rising year on year at an alarming rate, and I have experience and wealth of knowledge on this subject, then I feel its my duty to inform people of the trauma that awaits them and supply information that can assist them in their plight or to ensure it never happens in the first place.

As it was more than clear from the original posters first post that there was an issue which was later confirmed then the conclusion I came to was correct. The fact is if you are in an International relationship this could affect you. No-one can say it will and no-one can say it will not. Who knows you may go out for a beer tonight, slip up with the local hussie, and few days later you come home to an empty house.

Quite obviously you do not read posts fully as you would understand that it not only dealings with an ex, but dealings with a legal system that is fatally flawed, political bias and a typical Polish stance of "it would never happen to me". Quite frankly Poland is at the bottom of the pile when it comes to child matters.


The fact is she has and then found out he wants to use the kids/kid as ammunition.


I'm english and I know thats not true. All you do is go to your local court and ask them for permission. As its Poland you will be expected and encouraged to lie without consequence. Get your facts right. Polish law is very flexible when it suits!

Perhaps it is the fact that what I am posting is factual and true that you can't deal with. There is an organisation in Poland that is about to create waves in Poland and change will come from this. Massive change. Until that time I will continue to post fact about Poland and not the fiction you would like people to believe.


Well done! You are obviously a self obsessed person. You must be Polish.

If you would like to discuss anything regarding child abduction in a constructive manner, I'm open.

The only person obsessed here is you. You are appear as very controlling person, they are hard to stomach.


Poland is leaving a lot things to be sorted out by the interested parties. It is not about over-controlling , over-regulated nosy law who tell you in what way you should ****. Frankly the same country which allows abortions almost on whim is the last country which should be interested in children life, hypocrites.


Polish law seems to be prejudiced against fathers or seems to value mothers more. Maybe due to a fact that family courts are dominated by women, I know there is organization of fathers to help to fight against unjust rulings.

Kinda too late now to say that isn't it? I would say that if she fears that he will kidnap the kids she shouldn't leave them with him.

I am POLISH and I know it is TRUE. My father, brother and cousin are PRACTICING lawyers in Warsaw and WERE NOT able to circumvent the system for my wife and I when applying for our second sons passport, as a result we had to physically make a trip to Poland to apply. The same rules applied to the ID card. We then had to remain here until tomorrow. The whole process took us just under a month and we collected the documents only THIS week. So having literally JUST completed the whole process with THREE lawyers in the family at our disposal, whose experiences are more accurate?

Do tell me how many POLISH passports and ID cards you have applied for, for YOUR PolBrit kids????

Conversely, my wife however merely sent the forms to Paris with our sons Swiss birth certificate for his British passport, a signed photo, payment and a completed form. All of which she could have done WITHOUT my ever knowing. My signature isn't that difficult to forge.

Your FACTS are clearly flawed and suit only YOUR obsessive pursuit of perpetuating your anti Polish stance.


He didn't become an untrustworthy lowlife merely as a result of his wife/partner/gf having a child. There must have already been some character issues that would give cause for concern unless the pregnancy occured too early for her to be fully aware of the type of person he was in which case she should learn to exercise judgement, maturity and practice safe sex.

Here endeth the lesson in morality!!!

I agree with you. But sometimes people don't show their true colours until it's too late. She probably had some conflicts with her partner and the doubts are result of this...

I don't think you understand the point I'm trying to make here. It's nothing to do with who has or does not have the children. When a child is removed from a country by one parent without the others permission, we have a very broken situation for the child and left behind parent. There are systems (treaties) in place to bring about a resolution to these situations quickly. So for example, mum takes daughter to England without Dads knowledge, the treaties are there to bring both parents back to the original position , in this case Poland, and then the legal system is able to intervene, as it should , to find the best compromise for the child because the parents obviously can't. You could pretty much guarantee this would be Poland in this case which I'm sure you would agree with.

The problem, as ever with these treaties, Poland treats them as a one way ticket and politics, rather than child welfare come into play. A hague hearing in the UK averages 6 weeks from start to finish which is outside the guidelines of the treaty. In Poland by contrast, the first hearing will on average take 3 months to happen, and a year is not unheard of before completion though six months is a rule of thumb. When(rare) a return order is is granted by a Polish court it is possible that it will not be enforced. This is more common than you would imagine. In the UK, they are always enforced as are all foreign court orders.

A good question, us men need to ask ourselves sometimes is can we offer the same care as a mother? The truth is often No which is why it appears there is a bias toward women. It's just how it is.

You have a fathers rights organisation in Poland, of which I forget the name. Interestingly, one the psychologists that is highly active in supporting and guiding this organisation, was the psychologist that interviewed my partner and her children for the divorce hearing. A very interesting report followed. TBH it would be hilarious if it was not so serious a subject and it was amazing how the psychologist couldn't remember what he had written when confronted with solid evidence to the contrary. Funny how the judge agreed with what he said even though she had seen and heard with her own eyes it was a false statement. Now I could say there is a bias toward men in a Polish court but actually in this case its politics.


Come on, how on earth did you manage to deduce that Freud. How can offering knowledge be controlling.

I really do hope that your father, brother and cousin are not practising lawyers: if they are, they are almost certainly giving people incorrect advice.

The reality is that one parent must apply for the passport in person and the other needs only sign a consent form in front of a notary. Allow me to quote from the website of the Polish embassy in Canada:


ottawa.msz.gov.pl/en

It is important to note that the above applies only to children who are under 13 (i.e. is applying for a 5-year passport). If the child is 13 or over (i.e. is applying for a 10-year passport), only the signature (in person) of one parent is required, but the child must collect the passport in person and sign for it. And of course a court can order a passport to be issued without the consent of either parent or even against the wishes of both parents if the court considers that to be in the interests of the child.


Yes, precisely the same: if under 13, at least one parent in person and the signature of the other parent witnessed by a notary; if at least 13, both at least one parent and the child in person.


So you live in Switzerland. OK, let's see what the Polish embassy in Bern has to say:


berno.polemb/?document=521


And now we come to the reason for your post: you are trolling. Unfortunately you have encountered somebody who is at the moment actually in person going through the process which you claim, which has led to you being busted.


Don't worry about it. Just as 'Sickofant' is one of our regular posters trolling (my money would be on grubas), ironside is simply giving his traditional knee-jerk reaction of siding with any Pole who is in any conflict with any non-Pole and automatically defending any Polish thing, no matter what it is, which is being criticised in any way by any non-Pole, no matter how accurate or valid such criticism is or what knowledge IS has.

I don't have any. They are Polish through and through.

The fact remains if the the father/mother refuses consent, the court can and will override their refusal so, you are, in fact, wrong. I think you have been listening to old wives tales. Next you will be telling people that if they are Polish they have to get divorced in Poland.

If you need a good lawyer thats Polish and understands International law, I can point you in the right direction. She doesn't live in Poland though. I can assure you there are very few lawyers in Poland that have good enough knowledge, but plenty that will lie through their teeth otherwise. It's amazing how many that we have visited in Poznan that said the Hague was impossible in Poland, now include it on their websites. I seriously doubt that there knowledge has increased, just their extensive list of what they have heard of.

I do, you are trying to generalise your bad experience with the Polish legal system whereas failings of legal system are not exclusive to Poland. As they say shite happens.


I have no opinion on the way Poland deal with those treaties. I will give you one example, married couple with their girl daughter went to the UK. After a while there they ways parted. He come back to Poland and she stayed with a new partner and a new child there. The daughter wanted to stay with her dad and her friends but mother wanted her too. A court in England decided in her favour and court in Poland just followed meekly even with evidence to contrary all claims made by the mother.

To be honest I do not see any "policy" in Poland's legal system other than a fact that such system is less efficient.


You mean single mother against single father and every time mother comes on the top? Nay! I strongly disagree, it is all down to individual in question.


Hunch! Just seems to me given the way you post that you are controlling person and before you will answer to this - I don't know if you are or not such a person - just gut feeling.


It would be much more readable if you have written just: IS is offering a wider perspective on Polish issues. You on the-other hand are biased by your ideological stance and everything you post should be taken with a pinch of salt.

No, in fact it's not my experience its my partners, and the fact is, it is the general experience that happens with custody/contact cases where one partner is outside of Poland be they Polish or any other nationality. Conclusive proof can be found in the amount of Hague violations Poland has been involved in.


So the father screwed up big time then. He had a duty to his child to resolve custody/contact before he shipped out to Poland. So in reality he was unaware of International Law and didn't know that because his daughter was habitually resident in England the Polish courts had no jurisdiction over her.

So this proves my point about posting here then doesn't it. If people don't know they f*** up don't they. In this case if he had used the English courts, I can assure you his position with contact would have been far better. Don't forget in Poland there is little or no consequence for ignoring a contact order, in the UK its an imprison-able offense.


Remember this quote "Norway is trying to steal our blond blue eyed children"

Brussels II advocates communication between courts of different states as well as recognizing and enforcing orders made by another state. Poland does neither. Because of its constant failings Poland is considered one of the worst offenders in Poland and is referred to as the "Poor man of Europe". You don't earn that for nothing Ironside.

Ironside I have many criticisms I could make about Poland, but there really not important to you or me. On the whole its an OK place. This subject is close to my heart, for obvious reasons, and as you have clearly demonstrated yourself, people need to understand Law. It is available to all but possibly not all will understand.

Although to be fair, Polish courts aren't treating orders from foreign courts any different to the way that they treat orders from Polish courts. Polish courts seem to treat their own orders as things which can be ignored by either parent any time they feel like it.


No, yet again IS is mouthing off about something which he very clearly knows bugger all about. Still, it's always nice when you give us all a good laugh at your expense.

Hello Puzzie. Drunk again?

You have missed my point, it wasn't about the father but about Polish court who meekly followed ruling of the UK court. So there is no "policy" of ignoring foreign courts as you claim.

There is general "mess" like in all governmental institutions and that's about size of it.


Excuse me do you really think that people should be aware of all laws? I think that law should make things right instead of that silly idea of ruling. I think that laws in general are too much influenced by the criminal law.


I'm sure it would but not everybody posses capacity to position themsefs in such circumstances. Nor should they be blamed for it if they don't.If there is no malicious intend the law shouldn't be so uptight and judges should unclench their collective hole for while.


Once again is not an indication of the policy but rather of the mess.
Also law should focus more on punishing anti-social behaviour than punish parents and children for their shortcomings.


Shouldn't you add - us ex pats are laughing at you hahahahaha ?
That would be fitting mammy boy . lol

Given that in the case you mention the kid was habitually resident in the UK and physically present in the UK, the Polish court had absolutely no jurisdiction at all. So their opinion would have meant nothing no matter what they said. But please don't let your utter lack of knowledge prevent you from mouthing off on this topic.


Ignorance of applicable law is no excuse.


I personally don't see any need to state the bleeding obvious.


I think you may be mistaking me for a 42-year old friend of yours who still lives at home with his parents.

pity!


Personally I don't give a flying copulation about opinions of ideologically biased idiots. Would be nice though to see confirmation of your mental state.lol


DesEss is not friend of mine but at least his ants and merits are result of his views, whereas you are just another functionary in the world of PC revolution.

So who creates the mess. Bloody parents that become selfish when they separate. Lets say the child is 7 and has been in the UK for 3 years. Probably the child speaks fluent English has friends and most importantly for the child, routine and a stable home life. The father ups off to Poland and a couple of months later start missing the child as you would. Do you really think its right to create a massive upheaval for the child and place him/her back in Poland? Should the mother be dragged back to Poland just because Dad left?

You are talking and thinking about this in exactly the way Polish courts do. They put the parents first, then the children. Check out how a Polish divorce works. The residence order doesn't come until right at the end. 2 years of trauma in a lot of cases. Would you want that for your child? I doubt it.

The Hague and Brussels II were created to straighten out the mess that parents create Internationally. The problem is Poland isn't playing by the rules and is creating a pretty grim situation for an awful lot of people and at the same time discrediting itself across Europe.

Polish government and organization of the Polish juridical system and people who are employed there. #
I'm not arguing with that or this you pointing out about Polish courts. I'm from the beginning contesting that there is any "policy" in all that cases. The only policy is that nobody gives flying copulation about all those issues and lest of their worries are family courts and Hague ruling. If there are any fines involved, no judge will pay it from her/his pocked - who cares about taxpayers?