Białowieża National Park in Poland

Where did I mention muslims, are you saying muslims are terrorists.

I am on topic when I say that in my opinion the EU has biigger priorities than arguing whos scientists have the best approach with dealing with a bug infestation. people are dying on the streets of Europe what is being done to solve that problem.


So are you saying only scientists and lawyers can make a comment on this thread.

However all that scientific clap trap rest on theory that has not been empirically proven as the forest around the National park has been systematically maintained by people and from 1948 onwards there are detailed maps in existence of logging and planting.

Exactly the people on the ground know that forrest better than anyone else, they are well placed and have the knowledge to care for it.

Scientist are still arguing the toss as to whether butter is good or bad for you. whos to say they know what they are doing.

What a high opinion you have of Poland's top scientific achievers. Or do you prefer to think of Poland as a nation of manual workers, that is unable to progress in science, and with an education system only able to produce "clap trap" rather than reliable scientific advice? Poland 'can't do science', is that what you're saying?

No need to start baiting someone when you are losing an argument, It is not just Polish scientists that are involved in this matter and the fact is that scientists regardless of nationality have been proved to be wrong.

People like Professor Tomasz Wesolowski, who's studied in Bialowieza for 40 years? Or Professor Ludwik Tomialojc, who has studied in the forest for 50 years? Or Dr hab Rafal Kowalczyk, who has studied there for 20 years? You mean those people on the ground?

Who's losing? I have shown that the international scientific consensus is against logging (scroll back to read it). I have shown that the legal argument is against logging. What's left? "scientists have been proved to be wrong"? So you're happy to ignore the top scientific advice and the law, in case you might be right that logging is good? Ok, can I use the same argument to perform a little heart surgery on you? It's illegal, and scientists say it will kill you, but what do scientists know?!

bullshit my friend - spruce is completely vulnerable to wildfires - that it has resin proves nothing - in fact if anything spruce resin makes it even more vulnerable

Thankyou for your learned statement.

Indeed....

Why does gumishu and ironside and dolnoslask always post in very rapid succession of one another, like they're in the same place? Just asking...

oh and you are an authority on the subject - please enlighten me your highness

and a paranoid authority at that - who would have thunk

Well, I'm a PhD forest scientist, yes, my young serf.

Yea a political activist, so he is independent not biased at all is he.

There is a great deal of political agenda, motivation behind this both in Poland and the EU.

do you know the typical habitat of spruce - ever heard that it's called Norway spruce in English - do you still think spruce (aka Norway spruce) is fire tolerant

What?! He's a retired professor of biology/ecology at Wroclaw University. He's in his 80s.

please explain how in your theory spruce if fire tolerant

Yes there is. But the Polish Academy of Sciences is not political. Neither is UNESCO. Neither was the international forestry congress. Neither are the professors I listed. But Szyszko is political, because he's...you know...a politician.

Some people are simply bound and determined to support every plank of the PiS platform. I'm sure that dolno, irony and gumibear could justify what they've done to Pride of Poland (decreased it to 1/8 of what it was two years ago).

@CasualObserver

btw as far as I know almost pure spruce stands or majority spruce stands only developed in Białowieża forest after an extensive period of logging during the I World War by Germans

Because we don't, but we have an interest in this topic so please keep on topic.

I think Białowieża is being used as a political stick to beat Poland over the head with by those who are unhappy with the current government, those who are most unhappy and plot against Poland reside within the halls of the EU.

what is this thing - never heard of this - I know that PiS managed to hike the value of Orlen by more than 20 per cent during their rule - and this counts in billions - you heard about Orlen haven't you?

Are you kidding me? That is the most politically biased institution that supposed to be all about science there is.


They as I said base their action on legal issues and not out of their own accord. In short, they have been asked for their opinion which they base on legalities and politicks not on a merit of an argument.

He is a green party activist

Can you support that statement in any way at all, with any examples? The PAS has been there since 1948. Do you even know what it does? It is the scientific advisory body, and runs the scientific institutions of all disciplines, from physics to biology. It's a science academy. It's never been political.

Any proof of that? The one I'm talking about is a science professor.

What Ironside is actually saying is that as PAN isn't under the control of PiS, it must therefore be against PiS. It was the same thing with the PZPR - if you weren't with them, then you were automatically against them.

You're right, there is some of that - but mostly because it's so obvious a target for criticism. But that does not detract from the core issues, and so it is important to raise this above politics and political opinions, and concentrate on the science and the law. The science is not political, it's just the science. And the law is the law.

If we put the politics to one side and look at the scientific consensus, inside and outside of Poland, from national and world experts on forest biology, and if we look at the law as directed by the EU court to which Poland is subject, then the facts are quite clear.

Well actually it gets 1/3 of its budget from PiS, so it is under some kind of pressure to tow the line. And still they speak out when they the science calls for it, because science is not political.

What we see here is that people cannot imagine an institution acting independently. If you look at the institutions under control of PiS (like the IPN), then they do exactly what they're told to do by their political masters, so they immediately assume that anyone else speaking out must be under the control of politicians too.

It's a very, very communist mentality.