Mosques in Krakow?

I really don't see the point in your inflammatory remark. I was outlining the sacred basis for holy ground. You are responding, in a disgusting manner, by slandering a religion's founder.

- Do you see Muslims ever insulting Christ? Or any Judaeo-Christian prophet? Or any other tradition's prophet?

- What was the age of consent in Arabia at the time? Was there a special exception made for the Prophet Muhammad? No there was not. The age of consent in Islam is adolescence, and it is more accurately the age of marriage, not the age of sexual romps.

- She was 9 under the age of 10? I presume you mean that 10 is your lower limit. But l hope you realise that 10 is not acceptable in Poland.

- The fact is, puberty can happen early, it can happen late. I know a Christian girl who reached puberty at 18 (mind you, she had been horrifically sexually abused by her Spanish father). In Islam, if a girl were 18 and had not reached puberty, the marriage wouldn't be allowed, but with a fixed age of consent, if set at 16 (as it is in many parts of the world), it would be allowed. Paedophilia is, in the strictest sense, to do with a pre-pubescent, and infant, and thus our theoretical 18 year old girl (let her be female) who has not yet reached puberty, would be engaging in legalised paedophilia if she married someone while still not having reached puberty. Just something to think about, not that l am for changing the laws of our secular society, l leave that to more competent people.

- Lady 'Aisha had already been engaged to another man, a pagan. I suppose he was ok? She broke off her engagement to him in preference of the Prophet Muhammad. Her father approved.

- Please note the difference between "marriage" and "sexual romps" / "downloading indecent images using your computer". Do not project your own dark side!

- The age of marriage all over the world was puberty, for males and females, until fairly recently (the Industrial revolution changed things, but even 150 years ago, the age of consent was 10 years old), so please don't be so hypocritical, but put things into context.

- The age of consent in Saudi Arabia is 18 years. Muslims respect the laws of the land, wherever they are, you can't exactly hide a marriage like that in a land where it is outlawed.

Now, if you will, please demonstrate that you are not a hypocrite who projects his own nature, by condemning the following:

* w w w .judaism.about.com/od/birthtomarria2/f/wed_uncle_niece.htm
Traditionally, Judaism permits marriages between uncles and nieces. In fact, it is considered in the Talmud to be a meritorious match (B. Yevamot 62b)

* Jewish Talmud: Sanhedrin 55b. "A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old)."

* Jewish Talmud: Sanhedrin 54b. "A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old."

* Jewish Talmud: Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing." [it does not count as adultery / fornication]

* "... and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father." [Genesis 19:31-36] (please note that the Qur'an does not say such lies about Prophet Lot)

* BIBLE: Psalm 137:9 "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy babies against the rock"

* (BIBLE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT) If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces [shekels] of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

NOTE: That is, about 1 1/4 pounds (about 0.6 kilogram) = $420 [last year's prices]

* Death to the Rape Victim (BIBLE: Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB) "If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city ..."

* "How can a woman have anything; whatever is hers belongs to her husband? What is his is his and what is hers is also his...... Her earnings and what she may find in the streets are also his. The household articles, even the crumbs of bread on the table, are his. Should she invite a guest to her house and feed him, she would be stealing from her husband..." (Sanhedrin 71a, Git. 62a)

* "As in all the churches of the saints, women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." That remarkably sexist statement is from BIBLE: 1st Corinthians chapter 14: 34-36.

* BIBLE: Exodus 21:7
7. "If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.

* Regarding the Marriage of Mary to Joseph, Catholic Encyclopaedia ( w w w .newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), says:
"Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age, Joseph, who was at the time NINETY YEARS old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph" [This might actually have been true, and in any case, l am not mocking it, but just pointing it out to you, the reader]

* JEWISH TALMUD: "A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."....."

* JEWISH TALMUD: If she is younger than that age, intercourse with her is like putting a finger in the eye. (Mishnah Niddah 5:4) [Meaning no lasting harm is done, i.e. the hymen will grow back]

* In the USA last century, the age of consent was 10 years old. California was the first state to change the age of consent to 14, which it did in 1889. After California, other US states joined in and raised the age of consent too. (Source: w w w .ageofconsent.com/comments/numberone.htm)

* BIBLE: Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

* "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Timothy 2:12)"

* BIBLE: Honour Killings: And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the *****, she profaneth her father: she shall be BURNT WITH FIRE. (From the NIV Bible, Leviticus 21:9)" [Please note: Islam forbids burning people]

* BIBLE: "...and the birth of ANY daughter is a loss. (From the New Jerusalem Bible, Ecclesiasticus 22:3)"
"A man who educates his son will be the envy of his enemy." (Ecclesiasticus 30:3)

* "every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her head - it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. (I Corinthians 11:3-10).

* Anna Comnena, who was put into the care of her future mother-in-law, the dowager empress Mary of Alania, before she was eight years old so she could be brought up with her fiancé Constantine (Anna Comnena, Alexiad 3.1.4; cf. 2.5.1 for a further example). <--- Orthodox saint, betrothed at 8.

* I believe the count for convicted paedophile priests is now 750?

The list goes on and on.

If you're defending something here that you would not defend in any other person's holy book, stop and take a good hard look at why you're wearing these special glasses that only work one way. The first step toward recovery is admitting you have a problem.

I am guessing this is your cue to declare yourself an atheist of the highest order, but you were quite specific in maligning Islam in a thread in which Islam was being maligned (as per usual), so you cannot be a very faithful atheist. You would have to be a "rebel without a cause", or in common parlance, someone who talks "psychobabble". And yes l see you are quite mild compared to others, but still, that's no excuse!

The object here is not to attack Christianity or Judaism, which still have much virtue besides all this, but please, do not malign a religion that has no evil in it. And for goodness sake, have some shame. Read these quotes from your own scriptures and feel some remorse (l don't care what soundbytes you can quote from this or that 20th century nutjob, we will stick to scripture)! And no, l'm not asking you to convert to anything, in fact l personally prefer secularism. But please: just be more open minded please as we are all mere tenants on this earthly plane, in this brief life.

Thank you for your time.

Mafketis:

Please re-read my first post, it is not far above yours, quote number #54. It has anticipated every one of your statements in your replies.

I have to say, l like all of you so far as l can see, so it would be nice if we could all be firmly tongue in cheek and do something useful with our day, myself included. Bye for now! Will check back latter to see who's having a seethe, it will probably because they haven't even bothered reading my posts properly lol! Speak soon my dear friends :)

^^ Yeah, blame the evil Jews, that always works.

It is like this one time we trained and released man-eating sharks into Egyptian waters to destroy their tourist industry. Ah, the good old days.

You know, in ways I have leanings towards Judaism. They reject the original sin notion, as do I. Their monotheistic approach is commendable. Their holy works came first, long before Jesus appeared on the scene. As for Islam, how on Earth can a religion pop along some 570 years after Christ and rewrite some of what went before? Maybe the divider of Jews and Christians didn't get the kick they were looking for and sought to stir the hornets' nest by throwing in another big religion. Sorry, it's quite laughable when seen in one way though I respect people who can somehow see sth in it.

Were the prophets of any other religions paedophiles?


I am astounded that you in any way try to defend a man who had sex with a nine-year old child.


I condemn any and all paedophiles.

I also condemn liars.


Liar: the Talmud actually says that the death penalty is not imposed if the paedophile has sex with a girl below the age of three or a boy below the age of nine (but other penalties are imposed).


It does not count with regard to the status of the child as a virgin when she gets married.


Thanks for copy pasting it. Pity your list it little but lies.


I'm not the one here defending a man who had sex with a nine-year old girl and claiming that it is perfectly acceptable to have such sex.

Re: Post # 62

Actually, Christians in the Middle East were widely expecting a new Prophet at the time the Prophet Muhammad was born. That is because Christ clearly prophesised that a new person would come (the Comforter, "Ahmad"). No, it wasn't the Holy Ghost, that had been there right from the start. No, it wasn't Paul, the one who abandoned circumcision etc.

Re: Post # 63

As for PWEI, you need to wash your mouth out, and your mind, you are quite rude and disgusting. May God curse you! P.S. See Quote #58 again, it is all there, and no, none of it is lies. Feel free to give chapter and verse in your replies, otherwise, let the reader note that l have the facts!

The truth is out there, however much the guilty detest it.


I don't know where you get the inspiration for this from, but history refutes it in the most awful ways. It is even recorded in the Qur'an that a Jewish king of Yemen burned a load of Christians in a ditch. And were pogroms in medieval Poland the fault of Muslims? Did Muslims force the Poles to convert to Christianity or was it the Teutonic Knights?

You should read quote #58, it's all there! And be fair in your replies please. Actually, l like Catholics a lot, and Poles too. My neighbours were Poles and l always defend the Poles when they are picked on. So, l am not saying never find fault with Islam, but please be more cosntructive with your criticism.

P.s. Quote #58! Read it!

although I am athiest...

Jesus might have been gay.

I reckon he had a thing going on with Magdalene, if you read the Gnostic scriptures.

You do all know Abraham married his sister. Nasty. Might of pimped her out to some King or other, too.

Look, my point was clear. How does a new religion just pop up in 570AD, led by a paedophile prophet, and somehow seek to claim Allah as God? It just doesn't make sense. It had all been written before. I watched a leading Islamic film on how it emerged but I just wasn't convinced. Maybe you could shed some light, Nou!?

I read post 58 and, sorry, it didn't convince me at all.

"Allah" is the Arabic word for "God" you ignorant idiot.

Well, obviously. Allah is what they call God. My, you really can't interpret very well, can you? Try to understand what I was saying before idiotically jumping on my comment, buffoon.

so then you admit that they are calling God "God" in their own language now, so your previous post had no point. You stupid Islamophobic, conspiracy theorist moron.

Heh. Ya I heard he might also have done her if you know what I mean. Someone out there might be his relatives!

No, my point was what they perceive as Allah (which I assume to take a different form than how the Jews see G_d) is not the same as what Christians perceive as God. The old 'your God is not my God' idea. Get it? It's quite simple, really.

God, according to the Torah and New Testament, already existed long before Islam came along later. Simple.

I'm not Islamophobic at all. I have had different Muslim friends in the past from UAE, Jordan and India.

Conspiracy? That's just a label. A stupid one at that so I expect it from you.

BE DIPLOMATIC PLEASE AND HAVE SOME RESPECT.

Seanus, PWEI et al., may God curse you for your wicked words. You are just projecting your own dark side. I doubt you are even Christian.

As for modanifil and legend it is borderline forgivable that you make these slurs against other Prophets, because you were probably brought up to deride scriptures and Prophets of the Judaeo-Christian tradition.

I would urge all of you to avoid making cheap shots at any Prophet, because it is bigotry, and baseless, and you can never be as good as a Prophet, so it is hypocritical. By all means be an atheist, go nuts! Secular Western societies seem far more hi-tech than other societies. But why the cheap shots?

Finally:

* The Christ had no love relationship with any woman, he left earth a virgin, and that's according to every official religious source. They covered it up because they hated women? But, other Prophets were married.

* Prophet Abraham married his own sister? Even according to the Bible, she was not his proper sister, it was something else, and that's if you choose to accept the Bibilical account.

You assumption is wrong. Their Allah is the same monotheistic God of the Jews and the Christians.


So you think the Muslims believe God didn't exist before Islam! How stupid are you Seanus?

You know, Islam isn't that different in many theological ways so I don't knock the content of the Koran, nor should I. The basic content is fine for the most part, Nou

DE, then fighting has no sense. VERY simple!

What l mean is, stop making these cheap and nasty blasphemies, be more diplomatic and less porcine. You disqualify yourselves from the debate with these cheap shots against Prophet Muhammad, Christ, and Abraham.

I'm not saying you must agree with me, but will you try talking like an academic?

Ratko Racow in Hague

Protestants have this delusional thinking where they think the God of Christianity is not the God of Muslims.
For me Protestants is a joke deviation from Christianity. Especially those worthless evangelicals.

the topic: Mosque in Krakow

please feel free to discuss it. anything else goes in the bin.

Abraham states she was his father's daughter, therefore his sister - a blood relative. At some point he feared for his life and 'gave' her to a king to save himself from death.


Official source? You mean the bible compiled by the church Doctor St Augustine to suit his doctrine. There was more than four gospels they have been well studied including Professor Elaine Pagels of Princeton University(academic enough). Have a read of the texts, if you are allowed to think for yourself you will see there is more than simply Jesus saving a Prostitute. Do you suppose the human Jesus never had a erection. If you can only believe what you are told to believe, it is pointless discussing anything with you as you can only repeat others and have nothing new to say nor independent thought.

Merged: Shia mosques in krakoe

brothers and sisters in Islam

is there any shia mosque in krakoe? i am moving to there with my family.

please assist

There is supposed to be a Sunni one in Kraków

Sunni and Shi'a follow the same book (The religion of peace) why should it matter matter which mosque they prayed in.

Stop trolling

Would a Mormon pray in a Catholic Church?
Would a Presbyterian pray in a Quakers Church?

Ignorance is bliss eh?

Well many a time I Have prayed and attended weddings an funerals in a C of E Church whilst I am a Roman Catholic.

Smurf "Stop trolling" "Ignorance is bliss eh?" Please keep your rude and derogatory remarks for random chat in future , they do nothing to promote debate on this topic.

Sunnism (sp?) is currently dominated by a nasty, intolerant strain of political Islam that does not think of Shi'a as 'true' muslims and harbors all but genocidal thoughts toward them.

AFAICT the Shi'a aren't nearly as intolerant toward Sunni, but politicized Sunni Islam is so far this century's communism - a failed, morally bankrupt ideology whose adherent refuse to give up on.

I can totally understand a Shi'ite not wanting to visit a Sunni mosque, it would be a little like a RCatholic to go to a protestant church in Ulster in the early 1970s.

Thanks for the insight, so this is more of a political problem rather than any argument as to the teachings of the Quran itself.

It has to do with a split in early Islam IIRC about who would be the ideological heir of Mohammed (and other significant differences have since accrued).

From what little I know Shi'a is a little bit more like the RC church with more a hierarchy among theologians but they also have some other beliefs (and of course there are internal divisions) Extremist Shi'a stuff can get weird with stuff like the 12th Imam but I don't know how many take it that seriously.

Wahhabism the toxic strain of political Islam behind Saudi Arabia and the Muslim Brotherhood and the Islamic State is more like fundamentalist protestantism in the southern US - they're obsessed with literal interpretations of the koran and hadith with no thought given to changing technological or social development since the time it was written.

Before the rise of Saud-funded fundamentalism relations were often okay between the divisions (and intermarriage was frequent in places with both types like Iraq) but that's over now.

This I believe was also true of the relationship between Jews Christians and Arabs in the holy lands at one time, Albeit the crusades didn't help .