Mosques in Krakow?

Nope, but the Islamic view is that Islam is the only faith and


Read the thread in its entirety. Don't cherry pick the bits you want to read to support your riposte.

I chose Saudi Arabia as one example. I later gave Qatar as another example as a country that gave a tiny concession to Christianity (but only as recently as 2008). Perhaps the Christian world should reciprocate and ensure that no crescent and star is on display? And oh, the cries of foul play when Switzerland banned Minarets.

As I previously stated (but you chose to ignore that): Only when Islam is mutually respectful of all faiths to openly demonstrate and celebrate their faiths should it be reciprocated.

There are many many countries around the world where Christianity is in the minority and those practicing the faith are persecuted. I can post you hundreds of examples if you wish. I don't see too many mosques being burnt down based purely on the fact that it is an Islamic place of worship.

Tolerance and understanding is a 2 way street.

You can't even draw silly pictures of the Prophet Mohammed without the threat of a Fatwah (Death for a cartoon.....what a bizarre and twisted logic.)

Christianity and the West has gone a long way to demonstrate its ability to live side by side and yet Islam maintains this idea of the abrogation of all non believers.

Islam has a long way to go.

Words of wisdom. Poland is a Western country, shaped by humanism and the enlightenment. Church and state are separated, and individual freedom is guaranteed. A place for muslims to practice their faith is their right.

And your proposed solution to that is for non-muslims to take a backwards step. How eminently sensible.

I can debate with an opponent who is essentially an honest and trustworthy person. You Harry are not such a person,on the top it you are die-hard leftist and show-off. Debate my ass, you have some trick up your sleeve but your so called intellect is highly overrated, clever you are, educated too, intellectual -nay.

You are a pseudo-intellectual like Marks, Engels, Lenin, Rosenberg or Goebbels.


Yeah, Poland should become Muslim country that would be finish of peeps like you.
Bigot at you !

Is that your famed, self-proclaimed sarcasm? All went to radical mosques - see the point of the quality of the preacher being the issue. A mosque hidden away can breed and encourage hate.

I'm surprised the Daily Mail called them extremists and didn't paint it as general muslims, I guess there are so many muslims in England now that they don't want to lose potential readership. Don't want to drift into issues like burka's here but if men can't wear masks then women shouldn't be allowed to either. The swiss enjoy being dull and uniform in the whole, though I like their watches.

hey, you are not paying attention, allow them to worship and building Mosque in Krakow founded by SA because they trying to make a point are entirely different issues.

This is true, he is informed but I've got that moron lying in what was simply a vain and pathetic way of him trying to put on heirs (e-style)- the guy's a total fag.

It would be nice if we could live in a world where religious freedom could actually be practised without any further to do. However, politicians will always find a way to spark things. Obama did it by proposing a mosque near Ground Zero (what a moron!), not to mention the steel ship made from the detonated WTCs.

Thankfully, the dynamic is different than in the Balkans where putting the SA mosque in the middle of Sarajevo was always going to create tension amongst Serbs and Croats. I don't think much wrong would come from a mosque in Kraków but you just never know.

Really? I would say Lebanon established a political system based on sharing power between religious communities, both Muslim and Christian.


I guess my knowledge about Muslim world is higher than you can even imagine. So do me a favor and don't talk to me like you were the smartest one...


If your suggestion for Polish society is to look up to SA, I have no questions...


And of course no one knows about it??? So why the U.S., (still) the biggest power in the world, allows them to do this? I'm sure that if it was Iranian job they would have had enough excuse to start a new war!


What kind of analyses you're talking about? Iranian case is the same.Please ask an average Iranian if he/she is satisfied with the way Ahmadinejad governs the state. They won't tell you the truth because it's a regime and according to propaganda public supports Ahmadinejad and all Iranians are his followers.


I'm not a believer but very soon i'll have an opportunity to experience how life in the Islamic Republic looks like, so I'll share my reflections with you.

Really, that country was established for one sole reason to give to Christians in this region their state, Muslims in Lebanon were insignificant minority at the time.

From your complete refusal to make any attempt to debate the issue and your complete reliance on ad hom insults, it is evident to us all that you very simply can not debate at all. Thanks for making it so crystal clear. Now, as you have nothing to add to this discussion, perhaps you could sit quietly while the adults talk. Thank you.

Seanus, President Obama did not propose the Mosque near Ground Zero. It was proposed by the people that run the Islamic community center that was already there before 9-11. Do you even understand the American system of government which seperates church and state? The president of the USA does not go around proposing that any houses of worship be built. Claiming that he does is moronic.

Jesus H Christ on Velocipede: I agree with absolutely every word that Des Esseintes has said in a post!!!

My mistake, faulty English by being in a rush. He hardly dissuaded anyone from putting one there. He enjoyed the stirring it caused, I'm sure.

Why should he?

To be fair, there should be a mosque in every town and city in Poland.

Ok, but I meant current situation and please look at the way they shared power between Muslim and Christian communities.

what a post .. what make u think like this.. are you so low person thinking wise or ... its your nature...

Because, according to the bogus official line, it was radical Islamists that hit the towers. Now, they have nothing in common with normal Muslims but many Americans can't see that. They bracket them as one and the same.

The tatars were muslim, no?

many people don't know that the guy that blew up the building in Oklahoma city was a radical christian extremist- surely he doesn't represent christianity as a whole so why should muslim extremists that blew up the twin towers represent all muslims.

there is a mosque about a 10 minute drive away from my house in Warsaw. They seem pretty peaceful to me.

History will surely repeat itself. You muslim invaders will vanish.

True,if they ever open a mosque near WTC I will also open a go go joint named MOREHAMMERED near it,lets see if they will allow me bloody bar studs:)

lmao...how random.

and speaking of... ****, it's almost sept 11th! =OO

Furthermore there would be no problem if they did. The main group of people who are against it are butthurt right wing Americans.
The mosque wasnt even 'near' the accident of 9/11. If you look at a map of where it was suppost to be
it was in an area that had some old buildings anyway where it wouldnt bother anyone visually.

Excuse me! OK will they allow me to open a go go bar named MOREHAMMERED with a 24/7 blinking neon sign in the same vicinity as the mosque compared to WTC? if YES they should be allowed lets test there tolerance as well

Essentially by using that argument you are putting your self at their level or worst.
I thought Americans are more 'civilized' than that?

Interesting thread!

Peninsular Arabia was declared sacred ground by the Muslim Prophet Muhammad, and buildings of other faiths were banned from there. The equivalent in Europe is Vatican City.

When people compare Saudi Arabia (one country in peninsular Arabia) to the rest of the world in this mosque debate, they overlook that:

- No mosques are allowed in Vatican City
- Muslims do not even want to build a mosque in Vatican City
- Vatican City is very small, so easily overlooked, but it is actually relevant
- This boils down to "look how big Saudi Arabia is, look how tiny the Vatican is, we are therefore more advanced because we have downsized" which disqualifies one from taking a Christian side against a Muslim one, as this is an atheistic argument

Why were other religions banned from peninsular Arabia? Well, l'm not completely sure, but l do know that Muslims were betrayed most horribly by various Jewish tribes (read an Islamic source on early Islam) after serial-forgiving by the Muslims, but l guess also that every religion has sacred territory.

Are Muslims against Christians and Jews? No:
- The Qur'an clearly says that Christians and Jews are "People of the Book". It also says that the closest in religion to the Muslims are the Christians.

- Muslims are allowed to eat food prepared by a Christian Priest / Jewish Rabbi.
- Many of the first Muslims were Jews.
- Muslim men are allowed to marry Christian and Jewish wives without requiring them to convert.
- Most of the Prophets mentioned in the Qur'an were Jews.
- Muslims believe that there will be Jews (various Prophets and their followers) and Christians (the Apostles etc.) in heaven - can any other religion claim that people of other faiths will be in heaven?

- Muslims in the past levied the "Jizya" tax on non-Muslims living in Muslim lands. This tax was actually LOWER than the tax on Muslims, and only non-Muslim adult males had to pay it, and they were exempt from military service too. And the tax on Muslims was around 5% above a certain allowance so you can imagine how low the Jizya tax would have been.

- For most of its history, the Custodian of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the holiest Church in Christendom, has been a Muslim family, and they have done a good job of looking after it.

- The Prophet Muhammad put his handprint on a document guaranteeing protection to a Christian monastery (l think it is in the Sinai) and actually to this day some Muslims make pilgrimage there just to see this artefact.

As you may guess, l can go on and on, but l won't.

Back to the point, it has also been said that this or that Church in some Gulf State was prohibited from having a huge cross being displayed. Well, l haven't researched it, but please see above re: peninsular Arabia. Also note that Muslims are specifically forbidden to wear crosses, they don't believe Christ died on the cross, they say it was someone who tried to betray him, and that Christ ascended to heaven, and will one day return and make the world Muslim etc. So anyway, no crosses are allowed, but l can say in all fairness that Muslims are fascinated and adore Christians and are always ready to turn the other cheek. And besides, is this once again all about size of a cross, size of the Vatican, or do we stick to a more principled debate?

Yes there are exceptions to the principles l've put forward here, and they originate from recent times, and that is more a matter of socio-politico-historical-geography-whatever, l really don't know, l am just replying about the concept of a mosque in Krakow. I doubt many Muslims believe that all Christians are like the Westboro Baptist Church guys who applaud breast cancer as a "Godsmack". Muslims and Catholics tend to get on these days (yes l know Westboro is not Catholic), and until around 100 years ago, Muslims and Jews were almost inseparable, it would be so nice if the good old days could be restored (yes, all groups will always make digs at each other but l am talking about broad principles here).

By the way, l am a secularist, but l feel it's important to be honest about first principles before drawing a conclusion from them, hence this post. I hope l have helped! Thanks for reading.

P.S. Please try not to use circular logic in replying (e.g. "you are wrong because you are wrong, so why are you wrong, when you are so wrong?" - that's not very helpful!)

Yes, but he also said it was OK for a 50-year old man to marry a six-year old girl and then have sex with her when she was nine under the age of ten, so what he said clearly isn't worth very much by modern standards.

Noumenon wrote:


Vatican City is not a country in any real sense. There are only 800 or so 'citizens' (generally a temporary status) and only those who really want to can become citizens (usually by working for the vatican).

Saudi Arabia is a country with 27,000,000 inhabiants including millions who are born there who are systematically denied the basic human right of free choice of what religion to follow.

Not the same situation at all.

Noumenon wrote:


Then why are they desecrating the Holy Bible?

or why do they want to kill this Christian convert?

Yes these stories are from Iran but Iran is far more liberal than Saudi Arabia which actively prohibits Christian residents from practicing their faith. Inexcusable!

Some in the Vatican might think that's OK even today. Oh wait, you said 'her', they prefer 'him's'.