PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland

If there was a question mark it would be ok, it would then just be a real stupid question. But as it stands it it looks purposely misleading.

And below you can read an extract from the Warsaw Business Journal, in which, the Polish government will put up another barrier for the provision of affordable housing in Poland. Like interest rates, construction materials are cheap at the moment but as the "financial crises" sorts itself out, prices will rise. I also note that two of the largest developers in Poland are about to start new projects in Krakow with a starting price of 8000 PLN m2. Whether you think that they can sell them or not is immaterial, the one thing I am sure of is that they are not going to be selling them for 2000 PLN m2.

Families on their own
17th May 2010

Plans to change the state's mortgage program have some worried.

"Let's be honest ... [the government] is trying to suffocate the program," Mr Bielecki said.
"It takes two years from the time I make the decision to build to the time I start selling - which is the moment I get construction permits," he stated. "When the government says it will do something in a year, it usually gets done in five years or not at all ... so I can't make any decisions now."

Mr Bielecki also said, limitations, on the total area of homes covered by the program was "complete nonsense" and contradictory to the government's pro-family policy. Moreover, in his opinion the price per square meter limit is unrealistic because time constraints, rising building costs and demand could force prices over the threshold.

warsawvoice.pl/WVpage/pages/article.php/22317/article#

Just what does this salesman mean by "equilibrium"?
Based on the last 50 years?
The last 25 years
The last 10 years
or the last 5 years since the bubble began.

And, a further report.

Warsaw Business Journal
Primary market appeal

26th July 2010


What part of "there is a shortage of new builds" did you not understand?

I think I can solve the shortage problem. There are tons of unsold new builds here in Wroclaw that I'm sure the owners would be willing to allow people to purchase.

Unfortunately, that will not solve the problem. Polish people who have jobs do not want to move away from their families/relatives to go and live in the big cities. Not everything revolves around Wroclaw, Poznan, Krakow, Warsaw etc. There are huge numbers of people who live in bad housing, especially in the small to large towns. They do not have much choice as the developers tend to go for the large cities where they hope to earn higher profits.

I would not worry about the empty new apartments in Wroclaw. According to Polsky (for the past two years), prices are going to fall to 1000 PLN m2 so they should all be gone soon.

And if you read the following artical, this company must also have got there sums wrong. It appears that there may be more empty apartments on the market in Wroclaw.

Warsaw Business Journal
Fadesa builds in Wrocław

12th July 2010

Developer Fadesa Polnord Polska has kicked off its first residential investment in Wrocław. Within a multi-phase project called Osiedle Innova, the company will deliver a total of 850 units. In the first phase of the development Fadesa has planned around 230 apartments sized 32-75 sqm. In the next few weeks the units will be sold at a promotional price of zł.5,957 per sqm. Fadesa Polnord Polska is best known for its Ostoja Wilanów project in Warsaw.

I did not ask that question
My question was


????

I'd be saving money for that but instead I'm going to spend it all on the 4,000/sq.m flats in Krakow old town that Mark Beernut's been talking about (the ones that are too expensive for him). No doubt Milky will post the details about those any day now.

When a salesman says it, it mean, mad demand from buyers to buy apartments ten times their wages and rocketing prices. Equilibrium = expanding bubble.

Its amazing the sh1t these hired journalist spray on their public.


Its a pity these lackie journalist get confronted so little in the mainstream until its too late.

It's a pity that Mark Biernat whines to the mods every time somebody points out that yet another one of his aliases is posting bollocks about the property market.

Logical replys only, not tabloid snark by people who are in denial about their inevitably deflating properties.

So am I right, when reading this thread, that this is the biggest property bubble by far in Europe!!

So the price of a decent house in Poland is more expensive than one in Westeren Europe, yet the wages are about 4 times lower???

Maybe i've got it wrong though, have I?

Sorry Mark, I mean 'Milky', but the property I bought for 155,000zl is still worth more than half a million.

Not that any of that increase in value is in any way a real gain: if I sold my flat, I'd still need somewhere to live and so would need to spend the money I'd just 'made'.

No, you are wrong. Read following from todays news, not rumours from 2 years ago.

Breaking News

3 hours 46 mins ago
Reuters

More distressed property sales are expected in the next 12 months as changes to international regulations will likely raise the capital cost of holding commercial property on banks' balance sheets, an industry body said. Skip related content

Related content

Growth in distressed property listings eased slightly in the second quarter of this year, but are expected to worsen in the third quarter, the UK Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) said on Thursday, based on the results of a survey of its members.

RICS defines distressed properties as those with foreclosure orders or which are advertised for sale by their mortgagee, and which tend to fetch lower prices than their market value.

Three European countries -- Portugal, Spain and Germany -- were worse off in the second quarter, reporting distress in their market had risen at a faster pace than in Q1.

Hey Avalon,

Don't think you answered my questions there bro,

Basically i'm just wondering why the polish are being asked for extreme prices on houses/appartments in comparison to sub standard wages??

It must be crippling the average pole

Today's artical from Reuters answers your question. Poland does not have the biggest property bubble in Europe, or do you simply want to argue about the cost of construction in Poland?. Something you probably know nothing about.

It is an absolute disaster, for the average Pole, and no, you have not got it wrong,,Go over the threads on this site, if you want a good laugh at the developers trying to cover it up with snark attacks.


Yes its crazy over there , Here are some fact from wikapedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_property_bubble

The net is full of shype about there being no bubble and all that b0lox. I have warned people already to stay away from english speaking sites, as they are monopolised by developers. Go check it out for yourself forget about this site.

And yes wages are as little as 100 euro a week and even less if on minimum wage..
Check out the house prices on Mandom if you want to see gigantic property bubble denial spin..Also check out wages in Poland for the average worker,

Alright thanks man, personally i'm not looking to buy property in Poland now or anything just living atm with two polish dudes who are saying that the inflation/housing bubble is ridiculous in their home towns.

Your welcome, better of out of the market anyway, and keeping it real. Im sure your Polish house-mates will laugh when they see the shype and lies that the spammers put out on this form. Check it out for yourself as well,,bubble are bubbles.

Because, quite frankly, the house prices reflect the amount of black money floating around.

Do you really think that houses in for example Bieszczady are really bought/built with 100% legitimately earned/taxed money? Don't be ridiculous.

Do you mean the new flats that are going to be 2000 PLN m2? If you hear of any developers selling for this price, give me a shout, will you?

According to GUS, you will be buying at below the cost of new construction so you are onto a winner. I keep trying to find these articals that state that prices are crashing by 50%.

I must admit that I haven't heard of any myself but no doubt Mark Biernat will soon drop by to tell us all about them. If Mark is too busy, perhaps Milky could stand in for him?

Oh!!!..I thought they were all the same per........ oppppss!!!! must not say that. I will get deleted again.

I can see that day coming for sure but let me now if you hear anything before i do,cheers mate

No, you must not say that two posters here (I'll name neither of them) are actually the same person!


No doubt Mark will tell you first.

Sure lads lets wait together and see,,No matter how much you boys spam, gravity always wins,,,"pop" Prices will fall as in all property bubble,,,unless there is an economical miracle, and going by the right-wing thugs that run the country,I doubt it.


answer please loverboys

As I've already explained to Milky, Mark, sorry, I mean "explained to Mark, Milky", the place I bought for 155,000 is still worth more than three times more than I paid for it, so not even the kind of collapse that would mean that Mark can afford to buy a flat will mean that I lose money!

If the paranoid posts about who is who start again the whole property section will go and those involved will be banned.

The truth always suffers in the end. Anyone who produces facts and not fiction on here is threatened with suspension, whilst a total moron is allowed to disrupt and destroy any help which genuine, facual, information that people may be searching for.

You mods may just as well delete this thread, you have no idea how to do your jobs anyway. you must be the only people on Polish Forums that does not recognize this multiple spammer.

Its my absolute conviction, after studying property bubble in other countries, that the common closing down of web discussions on property, is and has been the objective of the Darwinian developers.

No discussion plays directly into their hands for obvious reason. The (developers) lads on this site, would be dancing with joy and victory if this was also to occur here. They would be delighted if only Silvio Berlusconi style media existed and dissent was blocked. They would much prefer if we talked about topics such as "have Polish people big noses"or "why do women use sex as a weapon".

A victory, no doubt, to the "Chicago Boy".
Discussions should not be closed down, moderators should do their job and defend logical debate against attack of a snark nature. Surely that is the democratic method. If the lads have their way and the property discussions is banned,(section 31 again eh) the people behind this site and their honesty will be under question. Are gold members more than gold members? Surely they should be disciplined and not the general debate.

That said this is a wonderful site, with fantastic knowledge about Poland and the vast majority of members are fine. Just a few bad apples.