PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland

I've seen a few appartments which actually were meant for a cashier once, and these were just a bit cheaper than this one.


I want to see you work for a few zloty somewhere, while trying to find a place for your family, see if you still have this opinion.


I don't think people want to live in holes. (You sound a bit too arrogant there, sorry.)


No? Well, maybe you should work for the exact same wages people earn in Poland.


For spoiled foreigners maybe.


A bit? It's excessive for Polish standards, trust me.


I do. It's just a flat. (A bit bigger than most flats, but still just a flat.)


No. Not probably. I'm 100% sure it would be way too much for them. It would even be too much for a starting psychologist, nurse or teacher.


How many people are engineers, managers, doctors, lawyers and pilots? Oh, and if you are an engineer, manager, doctor, lawyer or a pilot then you shouldn't rent anything, but simply buy property, instead of driving prices up for normal working people who can't afford to buy.


A full time English teacher - depending on which level he or she teaches - earns about the same as an Electrician, sometimes more, sometimes even less.

;)

I know you asked Seanus but I will take an educated guess at answering your question.

The average wage for the whole of Poland 3,362 zloty gross per month.
It should be noted of the approximate 38,482,919 people living in Poland, most people still live in the country side, earn less and can live on less and therefore bring down the average wage of people who live in cities and earn more.

Largest metropolitan and urban areas

The average Flat in:

Gdańsk is 31,35 per Metre square.

Gdynia 31,35 per Metre square.

Krakow 30,4 per Metre square.

Warsaw 43,7 per Metre square.

Wroclaw 34,2 per Metre square.

open.pl/news/mieszkania_rentownosc_najmu_w_dol.html



So Seanus' 700 pln for 30M2 is the going rate for a smaller town. I am sure you can find more expensive places on the rynek and cheaper places else where.

Gdańsk and Gdynia is 31,35PLN x 30 metres = 940 PLN per month

Krakow '' ''= 912 PLN per month

Warsaw '' ''= 1311 PLN per month

Wroclaw '' ''= 1026 PLN per month

It should also be noted that many people do not pay tax on their rental incomes, so those properties are probably not included in these figures.


That is quite a silly thing to say, in every country there are top end flats, why should Poland be any different?
The offer was for top end flat for a foreigner, that can cost anything from 2500 to 4000 and should be a very high standard, large and in the centre of the city.

The person wanted to let out a 60 M2 appartment in Wrolcaw for 2500PLN.
Wroclaw average 34,2 M2 per M2 x 60M2 = 2052 PLN per month.

I've heard this excuse for quite some time now. I'm sure you've heard that once cheap appartments are being turned into top end flats? More and more people with a high income wish to rent, and ofcourse this is a very lucrative business. Now, if they were building more affordable appartments for people with a lower income, instead of turning the majority of appartments into expensive ''top end'' flats, then you may call me silly. Right now, you may not.


Most Polish people don't earn that kind of money and you know it. It's good for foreigners, but it's not exactly for the Polish. But thanks for the rest of your in-depth reply.

:)

What makes you think "they" are not? show me a shred of evidence.
There are affordable alternatives to living on the market square in Krakow.


There are top end rentals in every city centre, in every country, in the whole world, where it is beyond the average local to afford, why should Poland be any different?


You're welcome.
These things should be discussed in context.
I see many people on here asserting what they don't know (I don't mean you) and without any back up it is peeing in the wind.

I try to be balanced on this topic and give information rather than talking about "a mate of mine" bla bla...
The information is available and notes do need to be made on the side about where the figures come from but I hope to give an idea of what is happening.

;0)

Edit*

It should also be noted that we are only talking about top end and average, there are cheaper places that balance out the top end to make the average.

Domiporta has plenty of places that are much cheaper


Already been there. Didn't like it. Don't have a family because I want to get my ducks in a row before diving into that choice.


Think about size. If you want something nicer, it costs more money, ergo, you need a better job.


My girlfriend works for the exact same wages as people in Poland do. As does her mother, as do most of my friends.


Or for people that know how to read a newspaper.


In the middle of the city, furnished, bills paid, with no commission. A Ferrari is just a car. People that can afford it can justify it.


Yea, so? It shouldn't be a surprise for someone studying psychology that it will be extremely difficult to get a job, and even more difficult to get a good job. Again, this isn't something that creeps up on people.


Thanks for that little talk. I'll make my own decisions, as will people that don't want to tie themselves down to even more expensive mortgages.


There are a couple here making decent money. Very decent money when you look at the minimum wage.

There are affordable places to rent for people who have decided to be part of the working class. Anyway, I'm still looking for a pilot with a commercial twin rating and someone that can install routers. I pay enough to cover this apartment and raise a family, even with all the money that the government will sap from that persons salary to pay for subsidized housing.

Minimum wage:


that'd be gross.


Gumtree

A few notes on this, I presume that wages are higher than minimum for most (not all but most). I have never been to Wroclaw but since this thread is about a flat there, I thought I'd show something there, that is cheap.

I am not just posting this because I love quoting myself but I am just sick of reading unfounded, uneducated crap, taking top end flats, from people in countries that have huge real estate problems calling Poles greedy feckers but mainly because I love quoting myself :)

cheap: i rent a small apartment to a guy for 100 pln / month and he hasnt paid for three months, cheeky bugger. Its about 45 m2's but i honestly dont know as ive never been inside.

Talk about low end.

It is a real crap hole but he seems to like it so what the hell.

Just take a peek at a few sites where they offer appartments in Poland.


I'm not saying it should be different. I'm saying there should be more affordable appartments for people with a low or average income, simply because there are more people with a low or average income than there are people which convex described. Right now, there are more expensive appartments than there are buyers. (Not only in Poland, but in all of Europe.) How come? Just explain that to me, since I'm so silly..


Plenty? In comparison to..?


Me neither, but you know, sometimes people lose their jobs or situations change. You can't always predict the future. A manager today, might be unemployed tomorrow.


I wonder what would happen if everyone would have to find a better job if housing prices keep increasing like they are now, but when their wages aren't. You don't have to point out the obvious, because I get that. Don't worry. I'm talking about something else and you know it.


Yes, but you don't.


Smart people don't read newspapers.


Yes, but what if someone decides it would be fun to offer a Ferrari to everyone, knowing that most people can't afford one?


Well, I'd call 6000 € a month a very good job. (But ofcourse I'm talking to Tony Stark here.)


You're right, and that's exactly why there are a lot of rich people who are clogging up the lower end of the housing market, which clearly was intended for people with average or low income. If you can afford something better, you should move your rich ass and allow someone else to live on his or her own. Or build more affordable appartments for those people. Simple.


I believe you, but I know a few electricians, plumbers etc. who run their own business.


Yes, there are, but not enough. For every affordable place there are a few dozens of people out there who are on a waiting list. (Sometimes hundreds.) How come?


Well, if everyone agreed working class people should have a higher income, then the government wouldn't have to subsidize housing anymore. So maybe that's something to think about? (Yes, I know, I'm annoying.)

Especially when you keep in mind that working class salaries have been frozen or actually decreased over the last three decades, while middle/upper class salaries have increased by 60% over the last three decades.

;)

I think this convo is getting a bit winded.

To some things up, a flat/house/whatever is worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it...

Which is the whole purpose of a discussion?


Okay. Let's suppose you are right for a second, and I'm willing to pay 1 € for that villa on the hill. Is it worth 1 € just because I'm not willing to pay more? I doubt it.

;)

and i like to add as long as people are paying for them they will retain their value, the poor are always getting fcuked over by the rich always have always will.

You should keep in mind that times are changing. Many of those poor people you talk about don't believe in all that religious and moral crap anymore, which practically makes them uncontrollable. It could make them a potentially lethal mob to those few spoiled pests who are trying to suck them dry. (Just keep taking from them and you'll see where the road ends.)

:)

Seriously? I have just given you the averages for every major city in Poland, I have given you the average wage, the minimum wage and low end apartments and you want me to what?

Who says there isn't affordable apartments here? You and no offence but what do you know? I can find you affordable apartments but they won't be in the centre of the city in the best areas.

There are expensive apartments the same way there are expensive watches, cars, computers etc...
You are taking the top end and treating it as if it is the average, I hope you look back over what I have written because i am not going to write it again.


To take a top end apartment and make an example of how this is the average?

Are top-end apartments in the centre of cities too expensive, yes but that doesn't make it the norm.

I have given you all the info you need, I have backed it up with sites, if you choose to keep on taking a top-ender in the city centre as the average, go ahead, many others are.

I want you to take a look at how many low end appartments are available, and then have a look at how many people are on a waiting list.


I do get your story. You didn't get mine. Me neither.


I'm talking demand/supply here.

;)

Have you? show me.
As I said, I can find you affordable apartments but they won't be in the centre of the city in the best areas.

Wow. I never knew you had a little socialist inside of you.

;P

You can also find them in the city center too. I had an apartment for 1300pln on Starowislna, Also rented with my Polish friends a place with 4 bedrooms on Krowoderska for well under 2k.

You just have to look a bit harder or speak to the right people to find them.

Is that where we went drinking?

My flats are priced at 2,900 - 3,500 PLN m2, I have seen Avalon's place, this is a real deal, no tricks, no surprises. And Avalon is a gentleman whom I have had the pleasure of meeting a couple of times in person.

[stat.gov.pl/cps/rde/xchg/gus] - Have fun scrolling those Poland Stats PDF documents!


I'm not talking about locations, but about supply and demand. For Poland's working class, the supply of affordable living space is diminishing. (Also due to foreign investors who bought property at an all-time low, who are trying to rent this property out at an all-time high.)

;)

Na that's just on Wielicka, it was pretty cheap too, 1500pln all bills included.

Here's a list of what I paid during my 5 years in Krakow.
Nowa Huta - 700pln(excluding bills) for a two roomed flat. 32m2
Krowoderska - 2200pln(excluding bills) for a 1 roomed flat. 48m2 (It was brand new and very plush hence the high price)
Starowislna - 1300pln(excluding bills) for two roomed flat 42m2
Ul.Wielicka - 1500pln(including bills) for a two roomed flat in brand new complex, 38m2
Krowoderska - 1800pln (including bills) for a 4 roomed flat, 56m2

So as you can see there is a wide range of prices. Some consistent and some not so. Depends on what you're looking for and how much you're willing to pay.

What, you're not going to quote anything? or find the appropriate page about what you are talking about? you're just going to love me and leave me? treat me like a cheap ******? well then, that's ...that's... ;p

-xxx-


Time is money, sorry!

;P

Good reflective range there obviously prices vary accordingly and also if do or don't include media which many don't query on initially when looking for a place, its always good to have a breakdown of whats included in what you are going to be paying out for ... !

I know that in the Ruczaj area of Krakow in new builds it is an average of 2000zł a month for a 2 bed apartment including bills except Media ie: Internet/Phone which is via a cable company like UPC which you can get in your own name than your landlords etc ...


but i would agree with this and also i would say to any potential newbies heading to anywhere in Poland - its better to share really IMHO so you can find your feet etc but thats my two penneth worth :)

Nope, wouldn't be expensive at all for a full time English teacher with a wife earning a comparable amount. Let's say, for the sake of argument, the English teacher is taking home about 4000zl a month and his wife the same - is 2500zl really that expensive on 7000zl a month? Not really.

I cannot understand this attitude in Poland that someone who didn't bother to study something that earns big money should have a nice flat and a nice car and so on!

Talking to a girl last night, she told me her sister got a nice central 2 bedroom apartment in wroclaw for 800 zloty a month.

Hey 4000 plus 4000 is 8000 not 7000, is that your commission? ;)


I think you put it quit well on the other thread, the amount of people coming on here, "I am a native speaker of english, gimmy a job." The sun don't shine out of their bums :) and they tend to misspell everything!

A full-time English teacher doesn't earn 4000zl.

;)


If he or she works for it, then he or she should be able to live a normal life. (I'm not talking about a Ferrari here?) Just because you've studied something doesn't mean you're more or less important. What if there weren't enough electricians for example? Companies would be in trouble. What if no one wants to pick up the garbage? Diseases would spread in no time. Why shouldn't they drive a car? Oh, and something else, a lot of people who don't drive a car can't go to work either.

;)

I thought they earned more.
But we'd better wait for them to speak for themselves.

They sure do when they teach at university, but those are usually called professors, not teachers. Actually, some teachers might just make that, when they have about twenty years of working experience in multiple fields..

;)


Edit: Actually, let's just state the facts and say that kindergarten and tertiary-level teachers earned a monthly average income of 2850 zloty in 2006. So I'm really curious to see if they're earning 4000 zloty now?

;)

Gah, I was thinking about something else when writing that :P


I can't stand it at all - I know several success stories here, and every single one of them has had to put significant effort into it. There's someone on here doing rather well at the minute with his business - but he has put his back into it and his balls on the line - it certainly didn't come to him on the plate like many of them seem to expect!


Any decent, qualified native English teacher can take home 4000zl a month without breaking into too much of a sweat.


Sure, they can live a normal life. But that normal life means not living in luxurious apartments in the centre of cities - it means living in an ordinary flat in an ordinary district with an ordinary car, comparable to the amount of money that they make in real terms. If someone is only earning the equal of 1000 euro between two, they can't expect to live in a city centre flat with the latest furnishings, alongside driving a nice new car. It's just not realistic.