Rhanddddd
30 Dec 2019 / #1
Hi all,
We recently moved out of a 60m2 appartment, and now we suddenly got a bill from our old landlord claiming we need to pay 7.000 zl or he will go to courts within 7 days. We lived for 1,5 year in the flat and we moved out after he informed us he wants to put his friend's family in the flat. So we moved out in like 2 weeks or something (we were already appartment hunting anyway and had found something nice). We had an amicable relationship with the landlord up until the last day. He actually offered to help us move out and drive us away in his truck from his company.
But his attitude changed completely when he came into the flat.
We have a small kid and there are white walls everywhere, so the walls in his bedroom were a bit dirty and the walls in some other rooms were also a bit dirty (some stripes due to furniture bumping/scraping into it etc) but we painted with nearly similar paint (difference visible when you pay attention to it) and it looked quite okay.
He had some strange, cheaply IKEA "blaty kuchenne" which after 1,5 year of preparing food, washing, spilling drinks, etc got dirty and was not possible to clean anymore to it's original state, it was obviously used.
Some small stuff: There were a few holes in the walls (drill holes) from where we put paintings, and close to the windows also some holes for installing curtains (with his approval). The wall coverage was rather cheap as well and when we pulled off some posters the plaster came off with it, but it's like 2 cm on 2 cm.
The sink in both kitchen and bathroom was next to a cupboard, but there was no silicon coverage on the slit between the sink and the cupboard, so obviously water will get into the slit which is what happened. Due to this, the cupboards are slightly damaged from the water and he bought new ones to replace them as "he could not rent out this flat with cupboards looking like that".
Now, most of that I would categorize as wear and tear. There are obviously a few things which we should cover, I agree. Due to our unfamiliarity with Polish rental law and because we were a bit surprised by his suddenly hostile attitude, we agreed to leave our deposit behind to cover the costs, 1.500 PLN.
Apparently this was not enough and now we suddenly receive a bill of another 5.500 PLN (7.000 in total, he already deducted our deposit).
On the bill:
Koszt remontu (5.138 zl netto, 5.549 zl bruto)
- Szpachlowanie, oklejanie, przestawianie melbi, malowanie ---- 204m2 * 15 zl - 3060 zl
- Wymiana paneli i podkladu ---- 19m2 * 45 zl - 855 zl
- Wymiana blatow kuchenne ---- 700 zl
- Wymiana szafki lazienkowej --- 200 zl
- [random stuff like painting something else, other small actions) --- 300 zl
Panele podlogowe --- 370 zl (I have no idea what this is, the flat had laminate so maybe he means those? Still, more than a few scratches it will not have been)
Szafka umywalkowa --- 399 zl
Blaty kuchenne --- 478 zl
Like I said, I agree we should cover part of the costs and we left behind 1.500 zl but I honestly feel we should not pay all of these things 100%.
- How does it look like from a judicial point of view? Are we expected to pay for all of this according to Polish law and does our landlord stand a chance of claiming this through court?
- If so, are we also expected (as in some countries) to pay part/full cost of his lawyer as losing party?
- He says he has "before" and "after" pictures to prove in court we "destroyed" (his words) his flat. But when we signed the contract, there were no pictures as attachment in the contract and there was also no description of the state of the flat. How usable are such pictures then anyway?
My wife and I feel we are getting a bit ripped off. He is putting his friend in the flat, so we feel he's refurbishing the flat for them at our cost. We also believe he hired a "Uslugi Ogolnobudowlane" who he has a friendly connection with, and who did the work at inflated prices (5.000 zl for those things in a 60 m2 flat seems a bit steep) once again at our behest. Reason I believe so is because we live in a big city (top-5 Poland) and yet the guy who did the remont has the office in a small town 40 km outside the city, and he has no website or other easy to find way to find him online.
Sorry for the big post, but I thought to give as much details as possible in order to obtain correct advice.
We recently moved out of a 60m2 appartment, and now we suddenly got a bill from our old landlord claiming we need to pay 7.000 zl or he will go to courts within 7 days. We lived for 1,5 year in the flat and we moved out after he informed us he wants to put his friend's family in the flat. So we moved out in like 2 weeks or something (we were already appartment hunting anyway and had found something nice). We had an amicable relationship with the landlord up until the last day. He actually offered to help us move out and drive us away in his truck from his company.
But his attitude changed completely when he came into the flat.
We have a small kid and there are white walls everywhere, so the walls in his bedroom were a bit dirty and the walls in some other rooms were also a bit dirty (some stripes due to furniture bumping/scraping into it etc) but we painted with nearly similar paint (difference visible when you pay attention to it) and it looked quite okay.
He had some strange, cheaply IKEA "blaty kuchenne" which after 1,5 year of preparing food, washing, spilling drinks, etc got dirty and was not possible to clean anymore to it's original state, it was obviously used.
Some small stuff: There were a few holes in the walls (drill holes) from where we put paintings, and close to the windows also some holes for installing curtains (with his approval). The wall coverage was rather cheap as well and when we pulled off some posters the plaster came off with it, but it's like 2 cm on 2 cm.
The sink in both kitchen and bathroom was next to a cupboard, but there was no silicon coverage on the slit between the sink and the cupboard, so obviously water will get into the slit which is what happened. Due to this, the cupboards are slightly damaged from the water and he bought new ones to replace them as "he could not rent out this flat with cupboards looking like that".
Now, most of that I would categorize as wear and tear. There are obviously a few things which we should cover, I agree. Due to our unfamiliarity with Polish rental law and because we were a bit surprised by his suddenly hostile attitude, we agreed to leave our deposit behind to cover the costs, 1.500 PLN.
Apparently this was not enough and now we suddenly receive a bill of another 5.500 PLN (7.000 in total, he already deducted our deposit).
On the bill:
Koszt remontu (5.138 zl netto, 5.549 zl bruto)
- Szpachlowanie, oklejanie, przestawianie melbi, malowanie ---- 204m2 * 15 zl - 3060 zl
- Wymiana paneli i podkladu ---- 19m2 * 45 zl - 855 zl
- Wymiana blatow kuchenne ---- 700 zl
- Wymiana szafki lazienkowej --- 200 zl
- [random stuff like painting something else, other small actions) --- 300 zl
Panele podlogowe --- 370 zl (I have no idea what this is, the flat had laminate so maybe he means those? Still, more than a few scratches it will not have been)
Szafka umywalkowa --- 399 zl
Blaty kuchenne --- 478 zl
Like I said, I agree we should cover part of the costs and we left behind 1.500 zl but I honestly feel we should not pay all of these things 100%.
- How does it look like from a judicial point of view? Are we expected to pay for all of this according to Polish law and does our landlord stand a chance of claiming this through court?
- If so, are we also expected (as in some countries) to pay part/full cost of his lawyer as losing party?
- He says he has "before" and "after" pictures to prove in court we "destroyed" (his words) his flat. But when we signed the contract, there were no pictures as attachment in the contract and there was also no description of the state of the flat. How usable are such pictures then anyway?
My wife and I feel we are getting a bit ripped off. He is putting his friend in the flat, so we feel he's refurbishing the flat for them at our cost. We also believe he hired a "Uslugi Ogolnobudowlane" who he has a friendly connection with, and who did the work at inflated prices (5.000 zl for those things in a 60 m2 flat seems a bit steep) once again at our behest. Reason I believe so is because we live in a big city (top-5 Poland) and yet the guy who did the remont has the office in a small town 40 km outside the city, and he has no website or other easy to find way to find him online.
Sorry for the big post, but I thought to give as much details as possible in order to obtain correct advice.