Poland's flat rental agents and the anger they brew in me....

Thank you for the tips.

Nothing much available at the moment in my price range - what there was has been let now, I wasn't quick enough.

I am going to post a reply on my own agent
s behalf. My wife and I recently purchased an apartment in krakow last week after a long and exhausting four year search. We have an extraordinary honest agent that has undertaking our renting of the apartment. There is no way that we could take care of all of the tasks that are required to take care of this rental project. We are not currently in Krakow. How could someone rent an apartment and do all that is necessary without an agent. It is not possible. I think that there are many fine agents in Poland. It is just a matter of searching fore the right one.

Janek

Janek- you are absolutely right, however, more often than not the agents in Poland are useless tools.
When we sold our house we had our house listed with 5 agents. The difference is that here they don't ask for exclusivity. In other parts of the world- exclusivity is expected but also the agents know the house inside and out. They do all things necessary in order to sell the house. Here in Poland they do nothing but open a door.

In our last house one of the agents from Emmerson actually called my husband while he was showing the house to clients to ask details about the home. Not very professional. There was another agent who showed our house to a client who would be living with her father who was wheelchair bound- the house had 10 stairs going up to the front door, stairs to the basement and stairs to the first floor- didn't exactly meet the needs of a man in a wheelchair.

When we were searching for a house we found an osiedle and we were hoping to view a house listed with an agent- it was Sunday but my husband called the agent and she said she was at the movies but she doesn't work on Sundays. Ok, so he called a different agent that the house was listed with- 15 minutes later the guy shows up and we bought the house from him.

Agents in this country don't do half the job that agents in other countries do. No "open houses" or any of the other sales techniques that "western" agents do. Perhaps this is why most agents here in Poland are considered to be bottom feeders- they chase other peoples listings.

Well, we have a 102 m2 apartment for rent in Krakow. About 5 minutes to the main square. It is on the second floor with so much sun that you will need to wear tanning lotion! It has a living room, two bedrroms, with a kitchen and dinning area and back balcony.

Janek

It is easy to rent out a flat without an agent. Just take pictures...post on the portals...and show it. Yeah it takes time but in most cases the owner is present when an agent shows the flat anyway so why do you need them? As a client searching they do nothing but get in the way and force themselves into the middle man position not allowing you to have the owners number etc. If you aren't in the same city and have no friend/family that can do it then you have no option...but the agents don't really do anything special or that anyone can't do. And they expect a LOT of money for this. They lie and claim the law requires they be involved etc. And they lie between the client and owner during negotiations. I may have no choice since I haven't found a flat I like with a direct listing but I am not happy about it....and won't ever choose to use agencies if I have other options.

have you ever listed a place on a portal? agents scour them and harass those without agents. I have a friend who got a call from an agent who would not accept no in any way, shape, or form. My friend actually ended up hanging up on her and her flat sold in 4 days without an agent.

I was arguing against Janek's post that it would be impossible to manage without an agent. I agree that agencies behave very poorly and are unprofessional. But in order to advertise you have to post on places like Gumtree. Shame they harass owners. You'd think there would be some legal recourse.

Ain't getting anywhere fast - have emailed 6 landlords direct from daft.pl - in English and Polish - no response at all. 3 of the ads are only a week or less old. Such demand for rental property in Wro that I am too late each time? Or do they just think, despite my writing to them that I want 6 to 12 months, that I am only here for the soccer games?

It's just the attitude here. I have the same experience in Warsaw and have in years past when I rented. Even agents won't follow up or return calls for days and often by then the flats are rented. There really is a social apathy in regards to customer service and communication in Poland. Don't get me wrong I am not a Poland hater and chose to live here. But there ARE differences in "business" attitude and it ca be quite annoying. The excellent customer service/return policies etc are about the only thing I think the USA is better at than most places. The EURO might be making it worse but it has always been like this.

I remember looking for office space last year and the complete dumps that real estate agents took me to. The worst one actually asked us to come pick her up and my wife agreed because, well, she's Polish and accepts such idiotic practices without question. I couldn't believe how much disrepair, inaccessibility and randomness there was at the locations we were taken to see.

Yeah I don't think they understand what "good standard" means as they all claim that and very few actually are. I started showing up 30min late for appointments because I got tired of standing around that long nearly every single time waiting for them to show up. One had the cheek to give me a hard time about making her wait 10min when she was already 20min late herself. It's getting harder and harder to remember WHY I wanted to come back here.

Happens in the UK too. I used to work in customer services many years ago - I always made sure myself or a colleague phoned back when we said we would. I often heard "Oh thanks for phoning back, so many firms say they will call and don't". Not just a Poland thing at all.

I didn't say it was specific to Poland. But it IS much worse here than in many places like the USA, Canada, certain Western European nations etc. I am not slamming on Poland...it's just reality here. Every nation has it's better and worse points. Depsite the rhetoric for example I think American heallthcare is horrible. There are fancy hospitals and lots of equipment, but the attitudes and worse the inflate costs are criminal for example.

I will probably discover your experiences are accurate, if I remain in the country for longer.

Is it just coincidence that I have emailed 7 Wrocław landlords regarding their advertised flats in the past 10 days, and have only got a reply from just one of them. That reply was the only landlord to whom I had accidentally omitted the sentence in Polish stating that I am from England.

Well, in fairness I also got this email just now, and this landlord was told I am English:

Witam,

ogłoszenie już niestety nieaktualne

Pozdrawiam

Google and other translators do not clearly translate this at all, but I assume it means either the ad was posted in error (by mistake), or the flat is let (rented out now).

Anyway, of course I am grateful for the landlord's courtesy. At best, it seems too many tenants chasing sub 1500zl per month flats here as I have been very quick off the mark this weekend with recently listed ads (the above was just a few hours since being published when I replied to it).

Further to post 45, I emailed the landlord to ask what floor it was on and mentioned I am from England. A day has passed now and no further correspondence from them. Must have let it suddenly ;o)

Well, one should not underestimate the damage that British stag parties in Krakow or Wroclaw are doing to the reputation of the country..

I hope that's not the idea universally, disrespectful stag dos and rowdy clubbers are certainly nothing to do with me. Yes, it might be that Englishman stereotypes are presumed by (some?) Polish landlords - as I had first suspected a few weeks ago. I will persevere, no option really as upstairs are very noisy here and I've had enough - a friendly word didn't get anywhere, more formal written exchanges ditto.

I have an apartment for rent in the center of Krakow--102 m2/2nd floor/three rooms
Janek
P.S. My management company is Home Express. Here is the link:
oferty.net/mieszkanie-na-wynajem-krowoderska-krakow-stare-miasto,1500355138

I am the owner and Home Express is our agent in charge. A very good company,

I get the same as a Yank. Have had people hang up on me once I answered where I was from even in Polish. I make a point to mention initially that I am living here long term, quiet and ask if the flat is quiet etc as I dont like parties and noise...sort of take the initiative in selling myself to an owner. If they give you a chance to meet they can figure out pretty fast if you are a potential problem...but getting past the first contact can be tricky. Try talking to doormen etc too...I have found flats before that way wandering around the city...just pop in and ask if they know any open flats in their building...or ask a resident coming out of a place you like.

Good idea, thanks.

I think sometimes they are not anti-Brit etc, they are just not interested in what they see as the hassle of translating or, perhaps, not sure what the legal requirements are, such as whether I would insist on them registering me at the town/city hall, whether they need to check I have a resident's permit etc etc. They don't want to get involved in that area of things, probably, in some cases of ignoring or rejecting prospective tenants from the UK etc.

Right. I think most of the time they just don't want to deal with the hassle as you have mentioned. Of the 4 places I have rented here only one was found from an ad directly. The rest were doormen or someone I bumped into who knew someone with a flat to rent etc. One lady was waiting by a lift and I asked her if the building was comfortable to live in...she asked why and I told her I was looking at a flat there...she mentioned she was on the way up to clean her friend's flat and takes pics for an ad so I looked at her's as well. You really just have to go out and talk to people to get the best options...strangers in a cafe...whatever.

I'll give it a try soon, but I don't speak Polish, I only know a few words, most of the time I understand max 2 words in a sentence and have to guess what they're saying. Can get hilarious results with the fuzzy logic method of communication... :o)

I understand. Just learning how to say you don't speak Polish can open up a lot of interaction though.

"Przeprasam ale nie mowie po polsku...czy pan/pani mowi po angielsku?" (Excuse me but I don' speak Polish...do you speak English?) and if they do they will and if not you move on. My Polish is shameful...but I interact a lot. Just today a guy asked me for directions on the street and kept talking and talking...wouldn't let me get a word in. So while he was rambling I looked up the address he mentioned ( I made ouf the street name and number in his rapid verbal assault) on my phone and pointed on the map. He said thanks and went on without ever knowing I am not fluent. Often you can pick out key words and get an idea of what's going on. I still sound like a child when speaking though.

As soon as I started TRYING things became easier...for a long time I was resistant and everyone I knew well spoke English so I got lazy. I don't know if I will ever have the discipline to study and become fluent but just learning survival Polish helps a ton.

I have that all the time, and I then feel really awkward when I say the Polish phrase you mentioned. Just today on the bus, a lady went into a lot of detail in her question, and when I just said the sorry part she immediately got that I was a foreigner and she guessed English but she didn't speak any. I think she just wanted to know if the next stop was the nearest for the post office, but I wasn't more than 50% sure that's what she said.

A surprising number of the younger ones speak English, a young neighbour who is a blue collar worker speaks better English than my bank staff and he's never lived in the UK. He knows obscure words almost instantly, it's amazing (to me).

Anyway, back to topic - I am going to ask around a lot more - Polish or no Polish - and see if I can get a decent landlord and fair rent. The agents are charging about 50% of a month's rent in some cases now, maybe it will drop further if they get more volume. If there are additional safeguards by renting through an agent, then I'd go for it, but if not then their fee is just a waste of money.

With acknowledgements to American English spelling btw!
Neighbour - neighbor
Through - thru

Ah hell my English is so international from living all over I mix vocabulary all the time. I mean saying "bollocks" is just fun.

Yeah agents suck and have somehow injected themselves into a large portion of the market. Nobody likes them yet people still hire them to list when its so simple. And the owners are always there to show the flat so it's not like the agent has access whenever and provides a service. They get in the middle and make communication difficult and ask for a lot of money for this.

:0)

Taken a long time but the fees the agents charge in the UK is now getting negative Press coverage there.

Found a new scam. A company is putting a listing up and when you call they say you have to pay 300pln and sign a contract to get access to their list of flats. THEN you can look at the one they listed. This should be illegal...if it is and somebody knows how to report it let me know. I am sure the Police won't care at all however.

Is ithis company called Hestia ? if so they do that in different countries until it is forbidden because they just make a potentiall tenant pay for a" list of rentals "most of the time the same list but they usually target students or naive people. Is this legal in Poland ? Should not be.

They never gave a name to me or anyone else I know who has run into similar scams...they just answer the phone "Biura" most of the time. I thought Hestia was a big insurance company? Is it one and the same?

a company called Hestia used to run a similar business/scam (lists) in France and other countries. It is altogether different from the Polish Hestia, which is indeed an insurance company

Most Poles dont want to rent to foreigners for two good reasons. Foreigners can always skip and bail out quite easily, so the chances of dealing with unpaid rent/utilities or a demolished flat are far higher, with the landlord having no way at filing suit. The second is even more practical. Most foreigners have to declare their place of residence, and the authorities do check up on this. I would say 70% of landlords do not declare their rental income and the last thing they need is any official attention brought their way.