Księga Wieczysta (no entry)

I'm buying a house with land without an entry in the Księga Wieczysta. The seller was in the process if making the registration then stopped because she was told it wasn't necessary. As a buyer am I right in insisting on it being made?

Yes.

Thanks Harry, could someone explain what the costs and time scales are involved?

I'm not sure I entirely understand what you are saying. What exactly is not entered into the KW?

It seems that no entry has ever been made into the KW relating to the current owners status.

So on what legal basis is she claiming to own it?

Not really sure which documents are involved ,my solicitor is looking into them, the "Wypis Z Rejestru Gruntów" is in the sellers name.

Rejestr Gruntów is not a Księga Wieczysta.

If the seller does not want to change entries in Rejestr Gruntów that's ok. She's right to say that it's not needed in this case.

Hi Krakus

I just mentioned the Rejestr Gruntów because that's one of the documents I've actually seen.

Are you saying it's ok to by a property without a KW Nr?

How can I put this in the best possible way...?

I know. If you don't understand what you're buying and the documents you need, what are you doing buying property in the first place?

I wouldn't touch a property without a KW with a bargepole.

Well Delphiandomine,

I 've bought property in the UK. and now want to buy a place in Poland. You're dead right I don't know which documents I need, that's why after taking recommendations I took on a local solicitor, the problem I'm now facing is that the advice she has given the seller, ie that she doesn't need to obtain a KW Nr, is in conflict with friends' advice and my own judgement. I am hoping members on here with some experience in this field can shed some light on this issue.

If the property you are looking at is an old cooperative property there may be no kw. That happened to me one time before and i went ahead, but it was a few years back.

If you don't tryst your lawyers view then get a second opinion - will only cost you a few hundred zloty and would be more reliable than asking on here.

Thanks CMS, did you encounter and problems with that purchase? Did you register the property yourself, if so were there any difficulties?

I'm not looking for professional advice on here, just experiences from an ex-pat perspective.

Yes, it was complicated with ownership and was still in days when you needed Ministry of Interior permit - it went on for about 4 months even before the permit application and absorbed a lot of phone costs as I was out of the country most of the time - one of the biggest issues was that the other guy wouldnt open a bank account, let alone apply for the KW stuff.

Its proved to be a great investment however (probably wouldnt sell it as it is a perfect summer house). It was cheap and when you get very cheap deals sometimes you need to accept risks - as I said if you feel unsure get a second opinion from a lawyer. I'm doing something else at the moment at the list of attachments to the Akt Notarialny is now up to 30.

Not sure if anyone can correct me on this but I dont think the KW is a failsafe proof of title or even a failsafe proof that no mortgage exists - I remember several cases in my business life where we had rented properties from someone who showed us the KW only for some other guy to show up with a competing claim. However once you are physically in situ its very difficult to get you out.

If she's entered into the Rejestr Gruntow that doesn't mean she owns the house on the land. We had the same issue in my family where the land was registered to my grandfather (from before WW2 - he died in the 1970s) but the house was owned by by grandmother (who died in 2001) so my Mum had a bit of paperwork to do in order to tidy everything up. In our case it was pretty simple, but it could clearly get much more complicated. Personally, if the price was right I'd sign a pre-agreement and make it a condition of completion that your vendor completes the KW process.

Also, I also bought a cooperative property in a block at a very low price and haven't bothered getting a KW for it - it would require a visit to a notary and a wait of about 3-6 months for them to write it in. As part of the sale I got written in to the register of members of the cooperative which is proof of ownership.

Thanks for the last 2 posts guys, interesting stuff

Sorry cms just can't get my head around this

I'm doing something else at the moment at the list of attachments to the Akt Notarialny is now up to 30.