It is a simple fact that that is how it functions at the moment. We would love to hire polish work. It is simple supply and demand in many ways.
Lets say that a Dane and a Polish guy have the same skills and all parameters are equal and equal pay. We would due to being a Danish company based in Denmark, always sign the Dane due to easier communication and more security in many ways. The same thing make go the other way arround in Poland I am assuming...
Due to the fact that Danish labor are some of the most expensive, and foreign laborer might work for a lower salary then foreign labor is interesting.
And now we have heard and experienced that Polish labor can have a good work ethic and be flexible, thats why we are looking into this.
The only information we wanted was simple. How much i normal to pay in Poland for that kind of labor, and how much would it take to work in Denmark.
Off-cause if that information is not available we are not able to analyse on the option of bringing in a foreigner and will just hire a Dane anyway.
Due to the fact that Danish labor are some of the most expensive, and foreign laborer might work for a lower salary then foreign labor is interesting.
When you say 'interesting', what you really mean is cheap. Seems to me that you are advertising here as a way to get a Polish builder to work at a far cheaper rate than a Dane. Exploitation, nothing more.
OP clearly wanted cheap Polish labour, but due to thread progression showing he's living 10 years in the past his wording has changed into feigning a language barrier at the outset.
OP clearly wanted cheap Polish labour, but due to thread progression showing he's living 10 years in the past
Well the main advantage of a Polish worker in Denmark is the wage gap since the language/culture problems would make them less attractive than locals....
The OP, of clearly wanted to research the possibility of employing a Polish contract worker after working alongside a Pole in Denmark. As an entrepreneur one always must look for the cost advantage. Mr DK, started this thread to gain market research, one has to admire his industrious side, unfortunately for him he did not realise he would be pitted against, jobsworth salaried bods that don't have an ounce of entrepreneurial spirit amongst them. Now when you have done about complaining how **** your life is and why you cant succeed, maybe its time to look in the mirror and understand why your life is what it is. As an add-on Poles have been screwing over Poles for centuries, this is the reason why a Poles nightmare when he arrives in a foreign land is to have a Polish boss...
As an add-on Poles have been screwing over Poles for centuries
I concur with you here, one need only look at airBnb to see rentals owned by Poles who clearly only have interest in foreign wallets and place charges to reflect that. However that doesn't give license for non Poles to join the trend. It's quite despicable. Poles have been walked on for far too long by other nations already.
I won't comment on Pole> Pole relations here, it's not my place.
Most Poles whom I've met recently arrived from Poland who live in or near Greenpoint, Brooklyn, speak poor English! Most Danes on the other speak and understand relatively fluent English.
Funny to have Danes teaching Poles English on the job. The Poles will come away sounding like Danes speaking with an Ersatz British accent:-)
How amusing!
Then again, in this global village we call planet earth, if a Dane has construction worker skills needed in Poland, Russia, or elsewhere and the Pole the identical or nearly identical skill set, the common language among them will remain unimportant.
The only information we wanted was simple. How much i normal to pay in Poland for that kind of labor, and how much would it take to work in Denmark.
For example experienced plumber can earn in Poland 3000zl per month (I earned 2750zl in Poland) plus the same after hours so 6000zl pcm it is 1380 euro plus 350 euro accommodation. Salary which can attract him to leave homeland is min 1730 euro netto.
Denmark is considered as very expensive country with very expensive cars and insurance. Don't expect crowds.
In the UK he can earn 100 pounds per day about 2200 pcm x 5 = 11000zl
peter_olsztyn : Thank you very much. That give a good perspective.
In Denmark we have a normal 37 hours pr week as standard. But there is a possibility to get 45-50 hours pr week depending on the labors wishes to earn more.
But it will be project hireing for fx 3-4 months at a time. Offcause we offer accommodation within the salary.
Mr DK, started this thread to gain market research
He started it to see what the going rate in Poland is for a builder, so he could work out how cheaply he could get away with paying someone.
If someone is prepared to travel to Denmark and work for less, than that of course is up to them, but if a Polish builder has equivalent building experience to that of a Dane, and speaks good English, why should he be paid less? Plus, Denmark is expensive and the likelihood is that the wages he would be paid would be swallowed up in living expenses.
if a Polish builder has equivalent building experience to that of a Dane, and speaks good English, why should he be paid less?
Because he'll still be the odd man out (in terms of language and culture).
I think there's a sliding scale here. If the advantage of hiring a Pole is paying them somewhat less than a Dane that's still good for the Pole if the wage is higher enough than it would be in Poland. It's not like there's only two options Polish flate rate and Danish flat rate.
Because he'll still be the odd man out (in terms of language and culture).
Maybe so, but I can't see what difference that should make. Equivalent qualifications/experience should command an equivalent wage. The OP was asking for an English speaker not a Danish one to start with. Anyone going abroad to work will be the odd person out initially, so why does that mean non-natives should earn less?
It's not like there's only two options Polish flate rate and Danish flat rate.
This is true, and it is up to a prospective employee if he decides to accept a lesser wage offered, but Poles are renowned generally for being hard working and....sadly, cheap labour. Why do you think the OP advertised on a Polish forum specifically? It is threads like these which only serve to reinforce that perception.
The perception though has quickly BECOME the reality, Chemikiem! Danes have a world-renowned high standard of living to which most non-Scandis can only aspire. Although it may not seem fair that Danes should earn more on average than Poles, the age-old stereotype of the backward, if hard-working Pole, slogging through the bigotry, the working grind, and the disdain of his English, Danish, and German brothers each day while earning a pitance of their wages, continues to dog us.
I too must confess that whenever I meet a new colleague from one of the Scandinavian countries, I automatically assume excellent English skills, competence, honesty, thrift and industry. Sadly, I often wonder whether it's just plain counter-intuitive for Poles to be straightforward and rely on their training alone, without a certain degree of some back in Poland "smoothing the way" professionally.
Although it may not seem fair that Danes should earn more on average than Poles,
I'm not arguing that, everyone knows that Danish wages are higher than Polish ones, I'm pointing out that equivalent skills should be recognised and paid accordingly. If I remember correctly, you're a college professor? Would you be happy to go abroad to a higher wage paying country, having equivalent teaching experience to the locals, and be offered a lesser wage?
Certainly not! This is also a reason why Trump wants to try to do away with the possibility of cheaper-wage labor replacing already high-paid, skilled native-born US labor, as well as entitlements through "diversity empowerment" which allow those from cheaper-wage countries replacing Americans looking for those same jobs, yet being consistently underbid by outsiders:-)
Its simple Supply and demand. We do not care where a person comes from, but the complete packedge he commes with - This includes alot of perspectives such as language, cultur, work-ethic and of-cause the wage. This is something any employer will look at when hireing. If a Dane and a foreigner have total similar prerequisites - why then choose the foreigner?
If a Pole ex. can earn more by working in Denmark and we can offer him employment cheaper than hireing a Dane - that should be winwin for us both in my opinion
I know that you can not compair apples to pairs but to me this example suits the question: Lets say you want a coke and you can buy it two places(any kind but lets say similar to the point of the case). One place it is cheaper than the other. Why then buy it the expensive place?
What you're saying is obviously what most capitalists would agree to; if a person can cheat another out of their fair share, and get away with it, then do it!
If Mexicans were as common in Denmark as Poles, the Danish boss would choose a Mexican. If the boss is concerned with quality, he'd hire a local Dane to do the job right! Same in Germany. Once, the BMW plant in Ruesselsheim near Frankfurt hired only native German employees to work the assembly lines and for other technical, skilled work. Later, Turks and Spaniards began to take over and as we see, quality suffered, because the pool of foreign-born labor was not trained any more than it was brought up in a culture which respected quality and precision.
Penny-wise and pound foolish has no rewards except for a quick fix which later comes apart!
If a Pole ex. can earn more by working in Denmark and we can offer him employment cheaper than hireing a Dane - that should be winwin for us both in my opinion
Is that legal in your country? If a Pole came to the UK and worked for a legit building company, he would be paid the same as a UK builder provided his experience/qualifications were equal. Of course there are companies here that will try to take advantage as you are doing too, but that is actually illegal here.
What sort of wage would be 'win win' for a Pole then? Anyone seriously considering your offer would be doing so in the hope of saving some money, and with the cost of living in Denmark being so high, I very much doubt this would be the case.
what most capitalists would agree to; if a person can cheat another out of their fair share, and get away with it, then do it!
Yes it is. This thread got me interested in labour laws in Denmark. Labour laws there are completely flexible and there isn't even any minimum wage or statutory holiday entitlement. Terms and conditions of employment are negotiated on a case by case basis between employers and employees. Ironically Danish workers are amongst the highest paid in Europe. To me it's typical of that kind of ultra civilised behaviour you can find in Scandanavia. It works in their culture because it's part of the collective behaviour of the nation. Employers expect to pay a decent wage and workers expect to be offered a decent wage. Danes are obviously not prepared to work for peanuts and accept rubbish conditions of employment.
I'm surprised! Might in part explain why the OP sees nothing wrong with trying to hire cheaper labour from abroad if minimum wage doesn't exist in Denmark and employment is on a case to case basis. He would do better advertising on a Polish job site rather than here though, not many Poles on this forum as you know.
Employers expect to pay a decent wage and workers expect to be offered a decent wage.
Nor should they, Atch! Like the Swedes, Dutch, and Germans, the Danes have historically an extremely high level of handmade workmanship which has been and continues to be severely compromised by the import if cheaper-wage, lesser-skilled labor.
While I'm not comparing Poland per se to a Third-World service economy such as Mexico, for instance, the standard of workmanship in Poland may well fit into English society, it most assuredly doesn't into Nordic countries:-)
Archives - 2010-2019 / Polonia / Work in Denmark? Do you want it? A versatile builder who can speak English needed.
