Don't Poles know they don't get welfare when going Germany to look for work?

My colleague and i got called to local jobcenter today because one women did not want leave and shouted ect.

When we arrived there to take her out they told us, that she freaked out when she heared her welfare application was denied, because she only is in Germany for looking for work which means she is not allowed to get welfare. She either lives from her own money or get back Poland.

She spoke little German but we convinced her to just leave and dont make big drama.

But honestly dont they tell over there?

It's a difficult topic...

Usually you need to reside in Germany to have any claim for support besides child allowances.

Usually coming to search for work is not enough to claim supports..BUT...that is not valid for people from Belgium, Denmark, Estonia, France, Greece, GB, Ireland, Iceland,Italy, Luxemburg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, Spain and even Turkey (!).

Coming from these countries means you can claim benefits from the European Convention on Social and Medical Assistance law. (EU Fürsorgeabkommen).

coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/treaty/014

Poland isn't part of it...I dunno why though....

hartz4widerspruch.de/wann-erhalten-eu-buerger-und-andere-auslaender-hartz-4/

If they're not citizens, although working abroad, where's the logic in thinking that they can automatically collect welfare from a country to which they aren't even native?

Sounds like pure chutzpah to me:-)

Because as EU citizens they have alot of more rights in other EU countries than people from non-EU countries.

It seems they made an exception with Turkey though...it seems someone from Turkey has more rights than someone from Poland. Maybe someone from Poland could explain why Poland didn't subscribe to that treaty?

I see, sort of:-)

It's all part of the "free movement for goods and people" the EU is about. To move freely there needs some kind of synchronization of citizen laws for all EU members to make it easier, claiming benefits is a part of it. But as I said, that's a difficult topic because of course there are still lotsa sometimes huge differences...

This is just another example of the insanity that The EU is.....

I rather think the accession protocols might have something to do with it...Turkey is stuck in them for over 10 years now.

And I can't help thinking that it's Polands failure to subscribe to the necessary treaty....blaming "the EU" is to easy.

You are probably right,but doesn't it seem crazy to you that people from a non EU state have more rights than people from an EU state?

It's not an EU treaty, but rather a treaty under the Council of Europe which has nothing to do with the EU. Turkey is a full member of the CoE, hence why they were able to become a signatory to the treaty.

Anyway, the convention dates back to 1953, and Poland obviously didn't take part at that point. By the time 1990 rolled round, Poland was too poor to really consider joining it, and the situation wasn't much better when Poland joined the EU and hence was able to take advantage of freedom of movement anyway. Poles don't have less rights than the Turks, it's just that the rights are granted differently.


Nothing to do with the EU. Don't mix up the CoE with the EU.

Yeah!

And I frankly don't want Turkey to become an EU member...so whats with those treaties for EU member!

But then there are some people who still believe Turkey would make a great member and who are still pushing this accession protocol....*eye roll*


Okay....thanks... I thought there was something not adding up!

But does that mean that Poland is no member of the CoE?


Well, right now they have less claim for benefits than many others.

Agreed.
That really would be the end for The EU......not that I care really....

No, but Poland sort of jumped that phase - by the time Poland joined the EU, they could take advantage of EU treaties and so they didn't really need to join the CoE treaty in question here as Poles could continue to claim welfare payments in Germany after moving there to find work anyway.

my guess is not that Poland didn't subscribe to the treaty but rather was not allowed to join - in 2004 when Poland joined the EU unemployment here was almost 20 per cent - if the rules of the said treaty would be applied to Poles droves of us would just swiftly move beyond the Oder

Turkey is the most civilised muslim country in the world if you ask me - we have a glimpse into Turkish culture now that Turkish TV shows (in Polish called ''seriale") are the staple of TVP

Hmmm...I'm not sure. It had been bilateral agreements between most EU members and Poland in place already so that Poles could not just suddenly "swarm" over the border looking for work the day after accession.

(For example the UK didn't make such agreement (only alongside Sweden and Ireland) and and hence most of the Poles wandered into Britain first after accession.)

So that wouldn't be a reason...


I don't think that's the point for most. It's just that the size of the country and the population would propel it at the front/top of the EU at once. And we would have the whole mess of the middle and near East as neighbours suddenly.

Turkey would change the EU more drastically as most Europeans would be happy with...a comparable "shock" would be if the EU would take Russia in!

Correct.
Turkey would mess Europe up big time....there are more than enough Turks in Germany already,if Turkey joined,Germany would be their number one destination,some would come to North London....

Hate to say it, but if I were an unemployed German, pensioner or even a student, I could almost see the motivation for movements like the PEGIDA or AfD, detestable

as folks like Hoecke and Gedoen might well be.

I honestly dont want pay taxes to feed foreigners in any way.

The sentiment is understandable, the methods expressing discontent clearly aren't. Where's the Church throughout all of this, hiding? There should be some sort of grassroots movement involving the clergy much as there was in the US during the oft maligned Civil Rights Era, after all this time! Where's the German Father James Gropie?

Oh yeah, the Germans are so paranoid about anything resembling conventional organized religion, the citizens would doubtless throw a fit if the above were suggested openly, and Merkel a pastor's daughter no less:-)

Germany and other EU countries put a 7-year long ban on that. What would have happened if it didn't? Poles could have flooded the job market in Germany and after some time people there would have had enough of this, so when 2015 came, people would have been against letting even more foreigners into the country. Ms. Merkel would thus have never thought of declaring "Wir schaffen das!". Germany would have been spared of the Middle Easterners and Northern Africans invading the country, and instead people would have occasionally complain of the Polish invasion, but would have thought "Oh, they are pretty likely to become germanized in the next generation".

Brexit would have not happened since the great number of Poles in England would have not added to the traditional frustrations of the English people about foreigners.

And we could all have lived happily under the guidance of Germany which in turn would have thrived even more under the ever luminous guidance of Bundeskanzlerin Angela Merkel.

Amen!

We might well see a Bjoern Hoecke become the next Chancellor, not Annegret Kramp Karrenbauer!

Poland demanded in return for that ban the assurance that no foreigner would be allowed to buy land in Poland.

When Poland joined the EU on May 1, 2004, it received a 12-year opt-out preventing non-Poles from buying rural land, as the government was worried that richer Western Europeans, and in particular Germans, would swoop in to buy vast amounts on farmland.

politico.eu/article/poland-raises-fences-to-block-farmland-sales/

So, I guess they had been quite happy about that. The rest is a "what if" play....

And yes, since 2016 Poles can look for work everywhere and EUians can buy property and estates in Poland.