EU tribunal overrules Polish name contest in Lithuania

Not really Koala....the war would had ended quite immediately and the whole scale destruction would had been avoided most probably, nothing lucky about it!


Hmmm...let's see:





....quite interesting :)

Ah but they did.


I have already answered.....?

Sounds as Polish to me as Żukowski would :)

a) Please demonstrate that the French invasion of Germany in September was not a direct result of British pressure.
b) I asked you to go into detail about what Britain could done, please do so.


You might wish to note that I have never said that you did.

French invasion on Germany? I thought you were somewhat serious, but now I see you're more of a joke character here. No one would call a single provocative strike an invasion. On September 12 1939 both UK and France decided not to invade Germany that year and to wait instead. And no, I won't play an armchair strategist and make detailed plans of the allies' invasion, it was possible for them to gather sufficient forces to overwhelm Germans in the west and stop the war right in its tracks.

Poland might still have ceased to exist, but that's another matter.

next off topic post earns a timeout

To the mods: I talked a bit about language ;)


Says who? Koala? And Poles captured Lithuanian territory.


Prior to the war it had no territory and was a minority in the Austrian empire: no lands whatsoever.


Now you lost. And?


The Britain gave Poland all the assistance it could. I personally would break the agreement just as Poland did with Lithuania (to "prevent the bloodshed" as you said).


Just like it was held in Poland in 1946-47. Why Lithuania didn't want to recognize the lost territories as Polish?


You see. But there are some who whine that they don't like spelling in Lithuanian. It is a fuss about nothing, indeed.

too much to read, but I'll offer this view, in case it hasn't been brought up yet: they wanted to use letters that do not exist in Lithuanian alphabet. If you allow this, next the Chinese'll want their name registered in their native alphabet.. and then where would we be?

In Lithuania?

That's not the point. It is obvious that the letters which are not in Lithuanian alphabet
cannot be used in official documents etc. Poles only want their names to be spellt in Lithuania
as they would be spellt in any other country e.g.: Wleciałowski would be spelled Wlecialowski
in the USA, because there is no "ł" in English, and Żubrzyński would be spellt Zubrzynski in France,
because there is no "Ż" or "ń" in the French alphabet. That's all they ask. But noooooo - Lithuanians
would spell their names Vlecalovièius and Žubrinskas (or something equally stupid.)
They even change the first names of Poles to their Lithuanian equivalents :-)

So, that's the point - they change Polish names into Lithuanian ones. If Poles forced Lithuanians
to use Polish version of their names (i.e. Mikulenas - Mikulenowski), or Germans (Bauer - Bałerowicz)
to do the same, the entire Europe would shake with outrage. However, if Poles are being persecuted
this way, nobody seems to mind.

Lithuanians spell their names in Poland exactly as they would have spellt them in Lithuania (except
for the use of specifically Lithuanian letters, which is understandable). Poles in Lithuania, cannot use
their names without Polish letters, and they have their names translated into ridiculous lituanized versions.

Then there is the matter of bilingual signs, which for some reason are not allowed even in places where
Polish minority is actually a majority. Then there is the cunning education reform, which will lead
to closing of over 50% of Polish schools in Lithuania and so on, and so on etc. etc.

It looks like Lithuania is purposely trying to enrage Poles and destroy relations with Poland. If that's
what they want, then so be it. We were patient for long enough - it's time to let Lithuanians know that
they can't f*ck us in the arse without lubrication. We should start from selling Polish state owned
property in Lithuania (preferably to Russians.)

It's much more likely that nobody would give a shiit. Poland already discriminates against minorities and does so in ways which break EU law, you see anybody being outraged?


And the woman who wanted to change her name isn't even Polish anyway!

With all due respect, I recently learned the following [a quote from some other forum]


If this is a case, then there is nothing to quarrel about, since we Poles do it all the time with all other cases but nominative, as in "wizyta Baracka Obamy w Polsce."

On the other hand, lack of "w" in Lithuanian alphabet is just used as a lame excuse. Look at the list below


So, both sides should really relax and go back to a bargaining table.

But it is precisely the same one that Poland uses to stop Mr Žukauskas legally being Mr Žukauskas: there is no letter Ž in Polish.

Sorry, I do not understand what you are saying. Did not I just post a long list of village names written with Lithuanian characters, and approved by Polish MSWiA for legal use in Poland?

Try getting Polish ID with other than Polish characters on it: you can not. And court documents can not use any characters other than Polish ones (which is why the Polish names of those villages would need to be used in any and all court filings).

Harry
Quoting myself (post 133)


All of this sounds to me like déjà vu: Quebec vs. ROC (Rest of Canada). Quebec language police is still active, but people just voted Gilles Duceppe and his Bloc Québécois out of federal parliament. In other words, nationalistic issues become less and less important with time.

That is Roman script... am I missing your point?

look above the Roman script.

Here we go again ....

Polish minority in Lithuania - doublefacedness or innocence?

My question is:

How high can the Polish minority in Lithuania jump in regards to naming the streets and other municipal divisions in Polish as well as argue with the Lithuanian authorities when the spelling of the names is concerned after having read the following document:



Should it bother the minority or just shoved as far as possible since it was 70 years ago?
Thanks for your input.
P.S.: Translation:
October 8, 1938 Cieszyn/Těšín (right after the Polish invasion of Czechoslovakia)
.... Names of streets, plazas, parks etc. as well as the names of different firms, institutions, companies etc. notwithstanding their private character must have exclusively Polish pronounciation/spelling.

The document is from the year 1938. Now, the year is 2011.

Thank you.

So, should this be erased from memory or just ignored today as irrelevant?

Exactly.

Unless you think that it would be OK for Polish government to order the executions of our German minority
members today, because that's what Germans were doing to Poles 70 years ago.

So, why do you bother with the symbols of the past used today? They have completely different meaning and the circumstances are completely new and frankly unrelated.

.

You're not making any sense, Nathan.

Or do you really think that...


?

Or that it's OK for Lithuanians to deprive Polish minority of their rights today, because Poles deprived
the Czech minority of their rights 70 years ago? In that case, you will need someone else's professional
help, as I'm not qualified to deal with mental disorders.

Both sides are behaving like utter children and should just grow up.

You are just not interested in getting it. The other day you all of a sudden spilled your poison in regards of UPA and OUN, which was absolutely uncalled for. You often reference my admiration of UPA as ultra-evil and fascist, which is really low on your part. Of course, there were different moments in history, but these soldiers fought for the independence of my country. I am not a bit interested in spilling Polish or any other blood, likewise majority of UPA and OUN soldiers have never wanted or done it. And I bet AK wasn't all that bad either. This is what bothers me. So, if you are so hasty in adjusting to the present, why keep on squirting dirt on the past?

I only reminded you and other members of some facts. There is no amount of "poison" that I could "spill",
no most horrible words that I could use, to even partially render the bestiality of UPA/OUN animals.


...is the problem here. People who admire rapists and child murderers and think that they can be friends
with the families of those who were murdered, need to think again. But, hey, go ahead - keep admiring.


It's a pity that most of the time they chose women and children to fight against.


Well, that's a progress for sure, compared to your UPA heroes. I applaud.


Remembering the past is one thing, but justifying present unjust policies with something that happened
70 years ago is a complete and utter nonsense.

Even though I remember about UPA's atrocities, I would never even suggest that present day Poland
should answer with similar actions towards Ukrainian minority in Poland today. You, on the other hand,
seem to think that Polish government's polonization policies of 70 years ago, can be used to justify
denying Polish minority their rights today.

You don't remember the facts, you remember boring stories fed by your surroundings, but hey - it is your business. Whatever you said is really ridiculous and I have no intention to expand on that.

The only thing I might add is that like you cannot let go of your fables about UPA, so the Lithuanians will not forget what Poland did to them 70 years ago. Until you do your part, it is preposterous to expect others to do the same in regards to you. But this is a feature that I find in your mentality: be saint at all cost while blaiming the others. I wonder how Hyper-Catholicity of yours deals with that. Or is it still as empty as it always was in regards to intelligence (to clarify myself, I meant Jan Gus, Galileo, Wycliff etc.)

Check your PM, Nat, and after that, if you still want to "exchange civilties"
on an open forum, I'd be more than happy to do that.

talking about yourself Nat? Why don't you face the truth at last? These people knew each other by name and face, do you think that Poles did not checked who done what? Hell, moral and just Ukrainians at the time were trying to help or stop that madness. They also knew who were the perpetrators.

There is Nazi, genocidal philosophy, spawned by the fathers of your UPA.
On the other hand you are making some pathetic excuses blaming Russians without a shred of evidence.