Talks on re-polonising Pekao bank under way

Maybe, but Poles buying Polish property is one thing, foreigners buying it is another, especially at knockdown prices. When will that property be re-Polonised?


Whatever, I've been here since 1995 and will happily post a scan of my passport proving that.

Who cares?! Kogo to obchodzi?! You certainly have an inflated sense of self-importance if you think the whole PF are awaiting your alleged passport scan with bated breath. Probably only Dreamergirl is.

I ask you again Harry, "Was anything done that was illegal" ?


That was my point Harry, long after these sales were available.
You missed out and now are jealous that others reaped the rewards of being at the right place at the right time.
I feel the same way about not buying Face Book stock when it first was available but I don't cry about it and try to belittle and insult people who did.

Get over yourself for the P.F. sake not to mention your obsession with a Pol/American that got a break in life that you missed out on.

We will see. It's been not enough time to judge it now. In my opinion - there are people who will use these money properly, there are people who will use it for booze and ciggies. It's real world and real world works so. There was already lots of people in Poland living on social benefits only. More social benefits = more money for them. There is also lots of upright people who will, for example, invest these money in the child's education.

The most important consequence should be an increase in the number of births. Then it will turn out to be a real investment in the future of the country. And it will be worth the costs.

About the budget - they have already cut the money for metropolitan areas, for example. So there will be less money for public transport and for the local investments. They are introducing the "supermarket" tax which may destroy small local businesses in favor of big supermarket chains (although PiS said it will be exactly on the contrary).

By the way, what's the point of "repolonizing" a bank in form of overtaking it by the state? It's enough when a single bank in the country belongs to the state. There is PKO BP. And it's enough. More banks in hands of the government just doesn't make any sense.

Instead of "repolonizing" banks by overtaking them by the government, we should think about why the general tendency is that the whole business, once it gets big enough, leaves Poland. Maybe because the taxes here are too high? See that even Polish people quite often decide to open the business, for example, on the British Isles, even if it's actually going to operate in Poland. Because on the British Isles there is much more benefits for small businesses, and the state institutions are much more friendly.

Let's look at the 10 biggest Polish banks...
1. PKO BP - the state bank, and the biggest bank in Poland
2. Pekao SA - one of the banks created by the state in 1989 with the intention of privatizing it, Italian (UniCredit)
3. Bank Zachodni WBK - also one of those banks, was Irish (AIB) to 2010, from 2011 it's Spanish (Santander)
4. mBank - also one of those banks, German (Commerzbank)
5. ING Bank Śląski - also one of those banks, Dutch (ING)
6. Getin Noble Bank - also one of those banks, seems to be in Polish hands in high percent
7. BGŻ BNP Paribas - a predecessor of BGŻ has existed since 1919 as a state bank, focused on agriculture; from 2004 partially Dutch (Rabobank), from 2008 Rabobank had over 50% of shares, in 2014 it sold them to a French bank (also existing on Polish market), so now it's French (BNP Paribas)

8. Bank Millenium - also one of those banks, Portuguese (BCP)
9. Raiffeisen Polbank - Austrian, on Polish market from 1991
10. BGK - another state bank, not a typical commercial bank, as PKO BP, but rather focused on providing support of different type for people, companies and local authorities

Very meaningful are also local cooperative banks, associated in a few groups.

It seems only one of those banks is private and Polish.

To compare, in Germany, one of the banks in the first ten is Italian - and it would be all in terms of the foreign capital. But 4 of those banks belong to the federal states - it's something we don't have in Poland because Poland is not a federation. One is the state commercial bank, equivalent of PKO BP (Deutsche Bank), one is a truly commercial, private bank (Commerzbank), one is an equivalent of our BGK (KfW), one unites the cooperative banks (DZ Bank) Then you have an Italian one (Hypovereinsbank, belonging to UniCredit, like Polish Pekao SA), then four banks of federal states, then the Postbank, belonging fully to Deutsche Bank.

Then: Dutch ING, again a federal state bank, then the Sparkassen, so a group of banks belonging to local authorities (no equivalent in Poland), again a federal state bank, again a support bank - but for agriculture, again one uniting cooperative banks (WGZ Bank), again a federal state bank, then again a support bank (now one of one of the federal states), the next one is also a special kind of bank - and it's the first 19.

So the difference is just that the system of state banks is much more complex.

State or private is not important. What's important that these are Polish-owned banks. Who owns the banks, calls the shots. You know what ethnic group own many of the world's banks and how wealthy, powerful and influential and they are, Amongst themselves they openly admit: "We run the world!" Why shouldn't Poles get a slice of the pie?! At least in their own country!

because the banks management have a duty to their shareholders and to their depositors.The money in there is not owned by the rulers of Poland but rather by the peope who trusted the bank enough to leave their cash there. i don't care if they are Jewish, catholic, Polish, German or French. i do care that they are competent and transparent in managing a bank.

they can go ahead and Polonize whatever they want but the results will be inevitable - significant cash withdrawals, ratings falls for the banks concerned, more pressure on the zloty and more free lunches for geriatric PiS functionaries who are more used to running gminas in Lubuskie than handling a complex business.

No, do tell us.


As the current events in Warsaw show, it's still possible to acquire formerly state-owned property at knockdown prices. All one needs to be is a criminal; I'm not one. But I am wondering when corruptly acquired property will be re-Polonised, perhaps Po can tell us that.

You continue to display a bizzare view of the world. The banks do not call the shots, the Polish regulator does. Polish banks have to do whatever the Polish government tell them too, becuase Poland is the guarantor and controls the currency.

The money lent to Polish customers comes from capital held by the banks, so Poles are benifiting from foreign money (and to a far lessor amount Polish bank deposits).

Anyone can setup a bank, as long as they are honest and have the policiies, procedures and financial backing.

There is nothing stopping the Polish governement setting up a bank, the problem is Poland already owns the biggest bank but customer CHOOSE not to use it BECAUSE its owned by the Polish government and therefore, by definition, CRAP.

I sometimes wonder what he sees when he sees colors of what he hears when he hears natural sounds. Does a sandy beach feel like basketball court to him? Does the sound of the waves reaching shore sound like a bowling alley?

He's an interesting case study if nothing else.

Harry the Liar has been banging on about this for years, but the joke is on Harry. It is his flagship Harryesque lie: 1% fact, 99% hasty conclusions, distortions, insinruations and most of all vivd fabrications, in other words UTTER BOLLOCKS!

The 1% fact in this case was that some lives in a flat. The remainder is all lies. The real estate in quesition was never state owned. It was built in the '60s as a housing coop for the daily "Express Wieczorny". The original owners were free to sell the units on the free market and they did. A previous owner was Polish TV presenter Andrzej Nowaliński, a homo, hence a man after Harry's own heart. He was sent as a correspondnent to London where he died in mysterious cicrucmstances (reportedly murdered by this jealous male "lover"). We never met Nowaliński personally but knew his father. My wife's family purchased the unit from the subsequent owner at an estate agent's for the going market price. End of story!

Stalinism ended in 1956. If Harry knew his Polish history better and spent less time quaffing ale, stout and lager and badmouthing posters on PF, he'd know that by the mid-'70s Poland had a thriving private sector, the largest and most dynamic in the Soviet bloc. It included not only estate agents and matrimonial agencies but all manner of services and even small-scale manufacturing.

An observation confirmed by the number of clients of the former Nordea bank which left when the bank was bought by PKO and all of the accounts forcibly converted into PKO accounts.

Then they must be legal to sell so you can go buy one too............. if you have the cash.


WHY do people feel they have to defend themselves to the Brit Bullies ?????
It is much easier just to tell them to go blow it out their ear and mind the own f-ing business.


If they left then how could their accounts "forcibly" be converted to PKO accounts ?
Sounds like they had the choice to leave or convert to PKO.

This is not limited to Poland. Banks in general are powerful institutions and who owns them is at a tremendous advantage. A foreign bank may turn down a government's request for a loan if said government is at war with the bank's home country.

People from countries who have not experienced such problems should be careful about projecting their views onto Poland, a country that has always been plagued and largely controlled by foreign interests and thereby prevented from developing much indigenous commerce and industry. Largely a nation of peasant farmers, it was wedged in betweeen Germany, a major industrial power, and populous, powerful and resrouce-rich Imperial Russia. Must such ecomomic vassadlom endure indefintiely? Perhaps the time has come to strike out on a more independent course and finally devleop a viable indigenous entrepreneurial class. All hope is with the Morawiecki Plan!

and Hong Kong was wedged between China and the British Empire but still managed to give birth to two of the worlds largest banks, Holland was stuck between Germany, France and Britian but still has a strong well run banking sector. in both cases the reason is that the govt kept theor hands off and left banking to professionals.

FFS, do you live in Napoleonic times?

Governments sell bonds to investors all over the world in an auction. The interest rate is related to the risk of a government not paying it back. Poland has no trouble selling its bonds.

They do not got to a bank and ask for a ******* Chest of Gold to buy muskets and gunpowder.


What country do you live in? Have you ever lived and worked in Poland?

A foreign back in Poland is under the control of the Polish regulator, its could no more 'demand a loan' from a foreign bank than it could a Polish owned bank.

All Poland needs to do is ask the central bank to print money.. manufacture it out of paper, which is the cause of inflation and the destruction of an ecomony. Hyperinflation already destroyed the Polish economy once.

I always thought that only the commies did stuff like that. They did in 1980 when they succumbed to Wałęsa's demand of an additional 2,000 zł a month for each worker and destroyed the Polish consumer market. People had stachesl full of paper money but there was almost nothing to buy as Wałęsa's extra 2,000 zł had depelted the market of goods..

How then was it that Obama ordered the printing of more paper money to pump-prime the recession-bound economy, and it actually worked?


Dunno about China; maybe their mega-population of downtroddden coolies once willling to work for a bowl of rice and even today committeed to starvation-wage, ant-like teamwork, painstaking patience and obedience had something to do with it.

But neither Germany nor Holland were primarily peasant societies devoid of an ubran burgher class of bankers, merchants, clerks and artisans. Poland's cities (historically) were essentially run by Germans and Jews, but 90% of the indigencous Poles were peasants. 10% were usually idle, often high-living and fortune-squandering gentry whose claim o fame was occasionally joining some insurrection. The proportions may have changed but todday's post-peasant urban dwellers are by and large still not creators and innovators but mercenaries in the pay of foriegners and consumers of foreign-owned products. The market is still controleld by foreign banks, assembly plants, retailers and products. The other countries you mentioned were able to create an indigenous culture-creating and manufacturing middle class. It was the middle class that created inventions, composed symphonies, painted pictures, made and sold yard goods, furniture, spirits and other products, built castles and cathedrals, sculpted statues and designed assorted household goods and farm implements.

It had been destroyed a lot earlier back in the early 70s when the government started subsidizing bread prices to prevent unrest (so that farmers were supposedly feeding livestock bread rather than animal feed). To make the subsidies work they began borrowing and that was all she wrote.

I completely do not trust PiS to do something just as misguided (I trust PO a little, just a little, more to not do something catastrophically stupid, the corruption is a small price to pay for greater financial stability).

Seriously damaged yes, but nearly doubling many people's monthly pay with the stroke of a pen (to seek to accommodate Solidarność and avoid further unrest) was the final nail in the consumer coffin. Such a move would even empty the US market of consumer goods.

No, all countries have done it, its dates back (at least) to Roman times, debasing the silver currency with base metals.

Every country is doing it now with QE

So why attack the Polish govt for doing it, even though to the best of my knowledge they still haven't done so. It is apparently one of the accepted financial options.

quote=peterweg]Have you ever lived and worked in Poland?[/quote]
In fact I have. Quite a long time.

I didn't specifically attack the Polish government for doing it. Its a dangerous practice whoever does it.

You seem to be under the impression that you have to own a bank to control it whereas controlling the currency and the banks themselves is in the hands of the government, right now.

This move have even symbolical meaning. Open control on banking sector represent clear message of Polish government to the domestic and foreign public- ``we seek for independent and strong Poland``. Let me say- and about time.

This means that the Polish government really should have the power over savings of the most of the Polish citizens? No. I don't feel that my savings are safe when they are in the hands of the government. Of politicians. When something is managed by politicians, this kind of management rarely works well.

And anyway:


So the politicians anyway can do with them whatever they want.


But they have less choice now than they had before. One bank less to choose from.


Well, if people in a country with free market economy start to protest against too high prices of products or against too low incomes, government can only laugh because the prices are controlled automatically by the market and the government can do nothing with it. In a country with centrally planned economy - it's possible to play with that, the government will start doing it under the pressure of the society - and then we have the results. We can make the price of, let's say, eggs, lower than it was. People will start to eat more eggs because they are cheap. But there will be no more chickens to produce those eggs (or the production may even be forced to go down due to lower incomes). The same number of eggs produced, more eggs consumed. We go out of balance, and we have shortages of eggs in shops.

Although I am not sure how it worked in case of toilet paper, the shortages of which are one of the most popular cases. The "consumption" of toilet paper is, after all, quite constant, regardless of its price. If it goes too high, the toilet paper may become a luxury product, and most of the people will find cheaper alternatives. But by decreasing its price... you won't generate more demand. People won't suddenly start to poop more because the toilet paper is cheap.

With a free market, the government just isn't able to do it. They won't decrease the prices because they don't have power over them.

I cannot remember those times, but from what I know, all those famous Solidarność protests (or, at least, many of them) began not as "we want freedom", "we want free market", but "we want cheaper goods".


Yeah. Strong. With government control.

By the Keynesian economics ..... exclusive private control sometimes result in inefficient macroeconomic outcomes ....


Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

I am myself satisfied with this Wikipedia description of Keynesianism. It is, as i studied it. Suggestions of John Maynard Keynes saved USA economy during the Great Depression that took place during the 1930s. At firsts, experts feared of governmental control and it reminded them of socialist ideas. But, economic laws have their own rule and Keynesian economics proved itself in real life. Essentially, modern day USA economy is planed economy.

So, obviously, Polish government wants clear (and open) influence on monetary and fiscal policy, as well as on actions of banking sector. Wants those fine tools under its surveillance.

In political sense, it means that Poland wants to strengthen in independance, without fear from Germany and Russia. Duda perfectly recognized moment of Poland`s equilibrium between these powers. Yes, for his ideas of Intermarium (or we can say- New Commonwealth), Duda need strong and independent Poland. Clearly, for that, Duda have USA and Russian support. Western Europe is that one who oppose but, obviously without success.

I never said private Polish-owned banks are not welcome. Just shows how much effort is sitll needed to create a viable indigenous enterpreneurial class in Poland whose banks and other companies are competitive enough to sueeze out foreign rivals.

Don't tell me it's a feather in any country's cap if it doesn't produce a single make of car, if most banks and breweries have their HQs abroad and nealry all of the products on its market are produced and sold by foreign-owned firms.

On the other side, judging by policy of Polish president Duda, i suppose, we can expect to see Hungarian and Serbian banks in Poland. It would be in accordance with attempts to strengthen our business connections in the wake of formation of new Commonwealth (ie Intermarium).

Hir We Kam, Hir We Go!

From someone who pays tax in America.

Making the banks 'Polish', will have no effect whatsoever in improving the entrepreneurial spirit of Poland. Taxation and ZUS need to be reformed. Socialist party members removed from government owned companies which should be privatised (sell shares to the people)

Do you mean balcerised? You gut them (Poles call it the wydmuszka technique) -- the machinery and other internal assets are removed and sold on the sly, and what's left is sold to foreign owners for a song. Does the EU allow privatisation only within a given country whilst excluding foreign bidders? Probably not!

What will improve Poland's entrepreneurial spirit? Certainly not what has been done so far, Yes, reforms are needed, but again not the kind that allow foreign interests to reap the fruits and reduce Poles to the status of low-wage mercenaries and docile consumers of foreign goods.